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Messages - Nao
2416
Off-topic / Re: git hiccups
« on October 22nd, 2013, 01:46 PM »
Yeah... Well, I don't know about the general opinion, but I didn't like SourceTree when it was released, and I uninstalled it less than a day after trying it out. Was some time ago, dunno if it has improved in the meantime. Just like SmartGit -- apparently, recently they renamed it to 'SmartGitHg' (well, what a wonderful rename... :lol:), maybe it's improved, but for what I know, I liked TortoiseGit best when I tested them all.
2417
Off-topic / Re: git hiccups
« on October 22nd, 2013, 11:03 AM »
Quote from TE on October 20th, 2013, 11:01 AM
Last time I checked Wedge (a year ago or so) it wasn't true OOP but using singletons all over the place..
Skeletons are a truly OOP class. That's the only one I ever wrote to be OOP, but guess what, it's also the only one that could benefit from being OOP.
Do you have any other idea what could really benefit from OOP..?!
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Elk is using OOP where it makes sense, yes. We have a coding guideline and we simply follow our own standards:
But SMF is already MVC to begin with...
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The point of following standards is to make it less complicated for developers and easier extendable. And last but not least to use other common standards such as unit-testing and build-testing (travis ci).
I don't know much about these, so I'll pass.
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Nao, I would probably have contributed my code and energy to Wedge but I wasn't allowed to do so..  Sadly you (and Pete) never gave me write access to the main repo, thus I moved on at some point.. Sorry.
We were supposed to release much earlier, which is why we always postponed giving more writing rights to anyone in the team. Really, we simply refused write access to *anyone*, not just you... And now that Pete is gone, I'm working on that. Beginning with the conversion to Git, and support for pull requests (since yesterday.) So, if you want access, there's a topic for that... ;)
I'm afraid I don't remember you ever asking for commit access to the main repo, though...! I don't remember you providing any patches either. Only Shitiz and John did. You wrote the importer, and then you got feverish when one day I confirmed that we were going to go with the original SMF license and were considering a paid version, and you didn't want anything to do with that, and you left. Then you saw that we didn't implement that, and you came back later, and then one day you left again, for no apparent reason.

It just stuck with me that you were more interested in helping Elk than Wedge, is all.
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And please: I'm not up for a battle comparing Elk, Wedge and SMF... We all have wasted more than enough time & energy to complain about SMF, their NPO structure and such stuff. At least I don't have the time nor the passion to start such type of "battle" once again. Elk and Wedge are simply following completely different approaches ..
I don't know, how different are they exactly...?
It's not like they're incompatible, either...
Except for Wedge blatantly breaking mod compatibility, of course! :P
(And Pete never ever documenting any of his codebase changes... :whistle:)
2418
Off-topic / Re: git hiccups
« on October 22nd, 2013, 10:46 AM »
Quote from live627 on October 22nd, 2013, 10:32 AM
I'll get a good Git client installed tomorrow, and accept the invite. I have almost no free time nowadays, might get even busier (yikes!) over the holidays.
Well, I'm not asking for anyone to contribute anything; I'm just saying, Wedge has suddenly become easier to contribute to (and be properly credited in the changelog), if you want to.

PS: How come you're on github and not using a git client..? Are you using GitHub for Windows..?

(I'm personally happy with TortoiseGit. Used to hate it, but I reconsidered when I realized that TortoiseHg was too different from what I was accustomed to, in TortoiseSVN.)
2419
Off-topic / Re: git hiccups
« on October 22nd, 2013, 10:43 AM »
Quote from TE on October 22nd, 2013, 09:53 AM
Just wanted to make sure Arantor isn't blamed for something he isn't responsible for...
Yeah, he doesn't need that to blame himself... ::)Okay, I got it: from the list of links I gave, you have to click "691" or whatever in the header, and then click on the commit link that's in the first comment, or something. This adds an extra 2 clicks, but then you get the original commit[1].

So, basically, Github is the culprit here for not being very helpful to people who might read these pages without knowing a thing about Git or Github or whatever. Regarding the argument about the use of 'wesql' in the codebase, this obviously makes it moot, but that still doesn't change the fact that (and even Arantor recognizes it himself) all of his work on SMF 2.1 is to bring Wedge features to it, which *obviously* is reason enough for me to be pissed off by his actions.

Remember, two months ago, he argued that he was leaving the forum software community to focus on making use of the Unity engine and create video games with Asgard. Something I could perfectly understand; in fact, the only times I considered leaving Wedge, was because I figured I needed to do something to make a living. Well, in the end, not only did Pete stay in this little world, but worse, he chose to go to the only place we expected each other never to deal with. The very place that had us create Wedge in the first place. And not only that, but now he's contributing his Wedge code to them (thus removing value from the project he poured his heart into for three years). He's shooting himself in the foot, wasting his time, and hurting me. Had I left Wedge before him, I'd never have done that kind of deal. I have a fucking conscience. All code I wrote for the team, is for use within the team only, at least until the day Wedge uses an actual open source license, at which point, everyone have fun. I don't have any right to reuse it for the competitor we left in the first place because of the way they treated us[2].

All I'm saying is that I feel Pete disrespected me, by systematically doing the opposite of what he assured me he would do. So, the next things I'm expecting, are for (1) his Wedge repos to disappear without warning (reason enough to move them), and (2) for my code to find itself in SMF. "By mistake", of course. But there will always be a revision log to make sure not a single line of my Wedge code finds itself in SMF. So, now what I'm *hoping* for (rather than expecting), is for Pete to take a local copy of Wedge, and only copy-paste code from HIS revisions.

That's all there is to say.
 1. I thought that branches in Git allowed for pull requests to essentially be a merge, which isn't destructive like a rebase, and kept all of the original commits. Looks like it creates an extra reference to the same commit, with a different hash. Oh, I have to read more about that...
 2. Again: I have nothing against the current SMF dev team. I'm referring to the remainders of the 2010 SMF 'management'.
2420
Off-topic / Re: git hiccups
« on October 22nd, 2013, 10:07 AM »
Quote from live627 on October 22nd, 2013, 12:21 AM
Wait, now I can't submit fixes to SMF?
Who said you couldn't?
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I get the feeling that Nao thinks everyone has turned against him and that someone, somewhere has declared war. Are we schoolboys that fight at every chance we get?
Where do you get this feeling? Just because I check on people's work and mention things that are of concern to me, I'm suddenly paranoid?

I'm only asking that anyone with access to the Wedge codebase doesn't use/distribute my code anywhere.
You can do whatever else you want.

Still, I thought all you wanted was for Wedge to switch to Git, so that you could contribute more easily, and yet, after I opened the repo, you didn't comment on it. I sent you an invite, because you're always going to have a slot for you anyway, accept it if you want.
But since I have limited user team space on that repo, I'll still need an answer.
2421
Off-topic / Re: git hiccups
« on October 22nd, 2013, 09:45 AM »
Quote from TE on October 21st, 2013, 07:13 PM
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That page shows a commit by Arantor. Why does it also say live627:ssi? Is this some kind of gitty trick?
If it's a commit by John, why is Pete credited for it..?
Nope, it's a commit from live627 .. his branch was named "ssi". Arantor was the one who merged it.

https://github.com/SimpleMachines/SMF2.1/pull/691
<sigh>
From what I saw on the Github site, because Arantor 'merged' the commit, and he had his name in bold (while the live627:ssi branch is in small-size Courier New characters), it wasn't hard to imagine that he committed it.

Let's see the path that I followed...

https://github.com/SimpleMachines/
Click SMF 2.1. Brings us to...

https://github.com/SimpleMachines/SMF2.1
Search (ctrl+f) for 'wedge' in the page. The last commit on SSI.php has it, so it's plain in your face (and the reason why I mentioned this thing at all, because I'm afraid I don't spend a lot of time on either Elk and SMF codebases, ahem.)
Click the link. Brings us to...

https://github.com/SimpleMachines/SMF2.1/commit/aec98628cbc78d30a38f2dcf68dfc747740a899f
"Arantor authored 14 days ago"
Click on "1 parent: (hash)", top right of the page. Brings us to...

https://github.com/SimpleMachines/SMF2.1/commit/444bdeac2797b058b2eac26cf756d7c57f2053d9
In the very same place, it says "Arantor authored 14 days ago".

So, believe what you think, but to me, it seemed obvious that Arantor made both commits... It's what Github insists on saying after exactly THREE clicks from the SimpleMachines homepage.

Is Github that fucked up, or is it Pete who did the wrong move and found himself crediting himself for someone else's work?
2422
Off-topic / Re: git hiccups
« on October 21st, 2013, 06:41 PM »
Well, it's in the final page, not before... (?)
2423
Off-topic / Re: git hiccups
« on October 21st, 2013, 06:24 PM »
Quote from forumsearch0r on October 21st, 2013, 02:50 PM
Quote from Nao on October 21st, 2013, 12:50 PM
- Indenazi hack. Only executed if used in a skin.
Sounds neat. What is it?
Nothing more than a vanity hack... It allows the skinner to fine-tune tabs (spaces) per-block in the HTML source code. I wrote it for use within skins that would want to move around the sidebar, like Warm did, but it's lost some of its value by now. Plus, I'm the only one around who cares about HTML formatting, so, whatever... Not worth discussing, really, it's only for the anally retentive like me ;)
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Ah, good old UBB, YaBB and, ehm... PHP-Nuke days.
Ah, PHP Nuke, and its 'successor' PostNuke... I actually tried to build a website using those, back in the day...! (I ended up using SPIP, which had the better codebase; the website is still live, surprisingly.)
2424
Off-topic / Re: git hiccups
« on October 21st, 2013, 06:21 PM »
Quote from emanuele on October 21st, 2013, 02:35 PM
Quote from Nao on October 20th, 2013, 04:26 PM
Fact is, all he's been doing at SMF 2.1 is adding features that are taken STRAIGHT from Wedge. In fact, some of his commits (look at his 05be2b92 revert) have Wedge code in them, such as wesql::query, if proof was needed that he didn't just take his 'ideas', he was taking his code, too.
Wrong subject:
https://github.com/SimpleMachines/SMF2.1/pull/691/files#diff-cfc225eff5aeb11b2e42d1a705c3ae63R476
That page shows a commit by Arantor. Why does it also say live627:ssi? Is this some kind of gitty trick?
If it's a commit by John, why is Pete credited for it..?
And if it is, why does he use Wedge terminology, when he's made very clear (by his silence mostly!) that he chose not to keep working on the Wedge codebase?
2425
Other software / Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
« on October 21st, 2013, 12:50 PM »
Quote from forumsearch0r on October 21st, 2013, 11:24 AM
So you actually put shocking code into Wedge until it was too much and now you complain about it being too much? :whistle:
I'm responsible for *most* of the ob_sessrewrite additions. Next thing you know, he'll say he always hated Wess, never thought skins were a good idea, and thought skeletons to be stupid. When I only said what I'd always said: that I didn't like the admin homepage. And that's the only admin area page I ever shared my concerns about. But it looks like Pete still has issues with his self-confidence, and he has to prove to everyone that he knows best. Oh, well... Hopefully, he'll grow past that.

This is what it does, in addition to what SMF already did (the non-trivial blocks of code are indicated by a star):

- Turns all http://wedge.org/ tags into the actual board URL. Which is a feature Pete loved.
- A meta description hack (by Pete)
- Hooks
- Showing header CSS, the elegant way.
* Delayed events -- making for much faster page loads, even when using jQuery. Could be disabled, but that would imply loading jQuery systematically from the header, which on the first page load, may be quite visible. I'm not against putting this into a setting, but nobody ever even suggested it. (Also, Pete loved it.)
* Soft-merging of posts. Wanted to put that into a setting, but it was such a popular feature (including with Pete), I decided against it.
* Macro replacements. Very powerful. Enabled through skins.
* Skin replacements. Even more powerful, but use with care. Enabled through skins.
* Membergroup colors. Written by me originally, but Pete bloated it up to use classes and caching. I was in favor of this, but Pete, don't tell me I'm always the cause for bloat, all right?
- Hiding profile links for users who can't view them.
- Topic prefixes
* Pretty URLs (probably the only feature in this list that Pete didn't like.)
- Indenazi hack. Only executed if used in a skin.
- HTML minification; only executed if a secret setting is set...
- Link shortening (this is different from pretty URLs; it doesn't change links, only makes the page easier to compress.)

Most of these features could (and I think it was brought up at some point) be moved to their own functions, as long as we're providing a link to $buffer of course, but it's really just a matter of ethics.
What happens here, is that these features are *best* placed in ob_sessrewrite, because it saves time, and makes overall coding easier for plugin authors (e.g. they don't have to care about membergroup colors themselves, as Wedge does it for them after they output their HTML.)

Now, if we ignore his comment about page processing, I'm afraid I can't take seriously the mention that the 'code is better in SMF'. If anything...

Code: [Select]
$smcFunc&#91;'query']('', 'SELECT * FROM {db_prefix}table');
everywhere, versus
Code: [Select]
wesql::query('SELECT * FROM {db_prefix}table');

I'm only very sad to see Pete actually forgot the three years he spent on improving the SMF codebase with me. He's back about two years before, and suddenly finds himself in a position where he can't break existing mods and has to cope with all the crap in SMF (same crap that is mostly gone in both Wedge and ElkArte), so he could hardly make a point about that.

The SMF codebase was fantastic and very modern in 2003. We're in 2013. Either SMF keeps mod compatibility, or it gets a better codebase. But it can't have BOTH, thus making Pete's point completely absurd.

Okay, I promised myself I wouldn't reply his post, so I'm going to stop there, because technically I'm replying to a sentence of it through a quote... -_-
2426
Other software / Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
« on October 21st, 2013, 09:15 AM »
Seriously, Pete..? Don't you think you've harmed yourself enough by now?!
2427
Other software / Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
« on October 20th, 2013, 04:44 PM »
Quote from BurkeKnight on October 20th, 2013, 06:01 AM
I'm not saying that they all should share everything...
Just the things that may improve security for all, and some of the things that they all may be able to work on jointly, for the betterment of all.

SMF and the SMF forks are together, against all the rest, and sharing some things would be a good idea, in my opinion.
I've always shared security issues I found. They just didn't care.

I don't know where their security advisories are posted, though...
2428
Other software / Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
« on October 20th, 2013, 04:42 PM »
Quote from forumsearch0r on October 20th, 2013, 04:29 PM
Quote from Nao on October 20th, 2013, 04:26 PM
look at his 05be2b92 revert
I wish I could!
https://github.com/SimpleMachines/SMF2.1/commit/aec98628cbc78d30a38f2dcf68dfc747740a899f
(Not sure why it doesn't have the same commit ID as on my local copy, though...)
Quote from forumsearch0r on October 20th, 2013, 04:29 PM
Basically, it's "his own work" he contributes (again). I don't know if the Wedge license allows that though. :whistle:
To make things short... The Wedge license doesn't allow it, no.
However, if it IS code that he wrote, I have no reason to sue him. Just because he's been acting like a jerk for the last two months, doesn't mean I forgot we did great things together for several years. (He probably forgot himself, though...)

I just don't want to re-use a single line of my own contributions without my authorizations, that's all.
2429
Other software / Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
« on October 20th, 2013, 04:36 PM »
Quote from BurkeKnight on October 20th, 2013, 01:16 AM
I still have not learned much on using it...LOL.
I don't think more than a handful of GH users are using it to its full extent.
Here's what one learns over time: Git is needlessly complicated, but it still allows one to do things like SVN[1]. It just adds new features to it. Useless features, for the most part. Some of SVN's 'easy' features are also replaced with more complicated features, but that's where Google is your friend, I guess. When I need to import a SVN repo, I just do svnadmin load on my command line. When I need to do a Git repo, I'll copy & paste a long and complicated command I found on Google. As long as it gets done, eh..?
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SMF, Elk and others are having theirs open, so people can see what is going on, and even test it out, via download from GitHub. That's what I meant by showing all, and by the larger community.
The Wedge codebase will be out soon. But it'll first go through a short 'private' phase on Bitbucket, and then I'll move it to Github, when it's okay to do it.
Fact is, I don't really believe anyone will offer any pull requests for Wedge. Really, anyone who has read access to the Wedge SVN (or a zip of the late 2012 alpha) could have offered diff patches, it's easy to generate, but nobody did. (Well, John did a couple, which got integrated, but really he's the only one. Also, Dragooon wrote the initial notification system but it was as a plugin, not a patch.)
So, I really don't see any reason why others would provide anything, as desirable as it might be to me.
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I mean heck, I've not even been able to look into the admin section of Wedge, so I can't even give much opinion on how it is.
Well, it's pretty good... But also complicates things if you're used to the SVN admin area, I guess...
It was Pete's thing. His area of expertise. I'm only getting started resuming work on it, but all in all, I know I'll eventually overhaul the most 'obvious' change he made to it, i.e. the homepage. I've never liked it.
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Granted, as a user, I do see a lot that I like. If I did not, I would not have signed up here. Just because I'm a team member for SMF, does not mean that I have to use just that for all my sites.
What do you do at SMF?
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I do have plans on trying Wedge with at least one of my sites. :)
Well, you do whatever you want, I'm not concerned with what people do with Wedge, as long as they follow the rules with it! ;) (i.e. no redistribution, and no copyright removal.)
 1. In fact, even GH's Windows application only shows the most basic things you can do with it; it's even simpler than TortoiseSVN in concept, so that goes to show, you don't HAVE to know everything about it... Thankfully.
2430
Other software / Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
« on October 20th, 2013, 04:26 PM »
Quote from forumsearch0r on October 19th, 2013, 11:26 PM
Hm, let me summarize: Arantor doesn't want to be the bad guy, so he decides to merge Wedge's "top features" into SMF, leaving some more "boo-fucking-hoo everyone hates me" wherever he can.
Well... I guess that's pretty much it, yeah, although I'd use other words.
Fact is, all he's been doing at SMF 2.1 is adding features that are taken STRAIGHT from Wedge. In fact, some of his commits (look at his 05be2b92 revert) have Wedge code in them, such as wesql::query, if proof was needed that he didn't just take his 'ideas', he was taking his code, too.
I don't exactly have time to check all of his commits to see if even a SINGLE line of my own additions finds itself in his commits, but if I ever find something like that, I'm NOT going to let it go with a smile.
He may see this whole process as an attempt to make SMF better; I only see it as removing added value (thus, *substracting* value) from Wedge. Which doesn't go well with me.
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Good and consistent decision, pal.

I wonder what they had to do to make him work with them again. Granting unlimited freedom regarding any changes he wants to commit? Not that SMF wasn't dead enough already...

Popcorn, anyone?
He said multiple times (also implying it in public) that he wouldn't work for the SMF team; the whole 'Let's go make Wedge' was due to the SMF team ousting us for being too bold. For years, we worked towards making the SMF codebase as good as it could be. It is NOT so that the SMF team can get any gratification from our work. The very same team that treated us like shit. (I'm not talking about the current dev team, obviously.) They're going to benefit from our work, our expertise.

I think most people here will understand if I'm not happy with that.
Other than that, I couldn't care less about what he has to bring to SMF. Good for them. But any code/ideas he takes from Wedge? Shame on him.