F**k the SMF project. F**k it up its stupid a**. <-- says Arantor ;)
Re: Fuck the SMF project. Fuck it up its stupid ass.
« Reply #45, on March 17th, 2013, 10:44 AM »
Sorry for not staying on topic, but I just have to comment on two replies :P
Quote from Arantor on March 16th, 2013, 11:21 PM
Late bloomer? ;) Actually VB is not a bad language to get into to start with, and at least it has some ideas about type safety, PHP's 'just keep on truckin'' approach is actually not clever for beginners - as I found with C#, having to conform to structure is actually a better way of getting to understand a language than it is for scripts to work but with inconsistent and unpredictable results because of some hidden safety net.

Also, review posted with some follow up comments based on this thread. I do not expect this to end well.
C# is one of the most fun languages I've met, php comes first. Even though C# is a bit tough in the beginning I picked it up fairly quick.
Quote from live627 on March 16th, 2013, 10:17 PM
Quote from Dragooon on March 16th, 2013, 06:37 PM
I'm fairly sure I made the first version of SMG within 5 months and that was 5 years ago.
impressive! I didn't start coding until I was 13, and even then, I just dabbled with some VB. Yes, 3.0. I didn't get into web development until 17.
Looks like we have something in common :P
I started 'coding' (not sure it can be called that) when I was 11 I believe, creating scripts for the Windows CMD prompt. Then I started with VB, dunno which version. Got sunk into web development when I was 12 I believe.

Anyways, yeah I got Lab to read this thread and man he's pissed at me lol.

emanuele

  • Posts: 125
Re: Fuck the SMF project. Fuck it up its stupid ass.
« Reply #46, on March 17th, 2013, 12:02 PM »
* emanuele is the one that started later in development: ~14 QBasic, ~18 VB6 [1] (and later some .NET) and ~27 PHP...

@Kindred: not sure if your comment was serious or not, though, why re-invent the wheel again and again and again? There is Lab's free version of the mod (under MPL, so anyone could take it, improve the code (change the name) and re-distribute the mod), there is Kays's version that is BSD.
Use one of those and if you have improvements put them somewhere so that people can grab them. ;)
 1. with in-between excel-formulas, yeah, I played with some nasty array of formulas to do not-so-basic things in the laboratory :P

Kindred

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Re: Fuck the SMF project. Fuck it up its stupid ass.
« Reply #47, on March 17th, 2013, 02:26 PM »
It wasn't meant as tongue in cheek...    I wasn't aware of Kays version...


There were a bunch of issues with Lab's free version that he passed off by saying "they are all fixed in the pro version" (so I don't want to use that as a starting point.

(and yes, if I do make my own or make improvements, I would always share them. I am not in favor of making paid mods)


that being said: Please note: Only one team member "closed ranks" with Lab that I could see. (Colin)
Runic and CoreISP seem to have stated the case very clearly without attacking either Labradoodle or Arantor
everyone else is pretty much staying out of it.

Re: Fuck the SMF project. Fuck it up its stupid ass.
« Reply #48, on March 17th, 2013, 02:59 PM »
Does my post have an Android icon because I posted it from my phone? That's cool.

Anyway, I'd grab Kays' mod anytime. If there is an issue with a mod, the author should fix it and shouldn't say "Oh but that's fixed in the paid version, gimme $45 and those issues'll be gone."

Dragooon

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The way it's meant to be

Arantor

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Re: Fuck the SMF project. Fuck it up its stupid ass.
« Reply #50, on March 17th, 2013, 03:20 PM »
Only one team member *publicly* closed ranks with Lab. Publicly is not the only place that closing of ranks occurred. And like it or not, vbgamer is seen by many as a pillar of the community - so right now it looks to any outsider as I'm just a troublemaker.

I'm just going to quote something from what I said to Runic last night.
Quote
Colin is convinced I made an attack, but the thing is that if that's all he sees, then nothing else really matters. You have to see it for what it is and he can't. And that says to me that others can't either.

Still, I might just prove vbgamer right, just for once, but not because he's actually right. He, and others, are convinced I want SMF dead. So, here's the deal, I'm not going to say anything over there. The project can do as it pleases, without anything I have to say. I will just put *all* of my time and energy into Wedge rather than a 50/50 split.

The sad truth is that SMF just cannot keep up with what development Nao and I can do when sufficiently motivated - and all this incident has done is motivate me to get Wedge so far ahead of SMF that it cannot ever catch up - and you KNOW I can do that.
Quote from Dragooon on March 17th, 2013, 03:01 PM
Quote from Yoshi2889 on March 17th, 2013, 02:59 PM
Does my post have an Android icon because I posted it from my phone? That's cool.
Yeah
There are icons for iPod/iPhone, iPad, Android and I did suggest a 3DS icon. I think there's also some rule for the generic phone one, still.
When we unite against a common enemy that attacks our ethos, it nurtures group solidarity. Trolls are sensational, yes, but we keep everyone honest. | Game Memorial

Kindred

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Re: Fuck the SMF project. Fuck it up its stupid ass.
« Reply #51, on March 17th, 2013, 03:40 PM »
well, Arantor...  do what you must/will... 

However, public comments are the only place I have seen any discussion on this... There is no discussions (that I am aware of_ on the team boards - so that thread (which I was not even really paying attention to until it got flagged) and this one is the only place I have seen any comments for or against your comments.  So Colin, Lab and VBgamer felt that your comments were an attack...  I don't think that anyone else did - and the PM and Server Admin for SMF both came out and said that.

You have to admit - you are a troublemaker (and you enjoy the role! :P)  -- Which is not to say you did anything wrong, mind you... I think that you comments were objectively presented and should have been taken as such. But you have to admit that you KNEW exactly what the reaction was going to be when you posted it. :P
(please note the smileys above, this is not an attack or even a criticism, just a comment in my usual blunt and/or sarcastic tone)

Arantor

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Re: Fuck the SMF project. Fuck it up its stupid ass.
« Reply #52, on March 17th, 2013, 03:48 PM »
Quote
well, Arantor...  do what you must/will...
That is exactly what I'm doing. I'm at the point where I believe SMF cannot be fixed and the kindest thing would be a mercy killing.
Quote
However, public comments are the only place I have seen any discussion on this...
My email, my FB inbox and my inbox here would disagree. ;)
Quote
You have to admit - you are a troublemaker (and you enjoy the role! :P)  -- Which is not to say you did anything wrong, mind you... I think that you comments were objectively presented and should have been taken as such. But you have to admit that you KNEW exactly what the reaction was going to be when you posted it. :P
(please note the smileys above, this is not an attack or even a criticism, just a comment in my usual blunt and/or sarcastic tone)
Troublemaking is a matter of perspective. I don't see it as causing trouble, I see it as raising legitimate issues. You have a developer with questionable ethics and poor developmental judgement.

I knew the reaction would be negative, but not nearly as negative as some of the comments I made, and I didn't entirely expect other team members to jump in and defend him with poorly executed ad-hominem attacks. If you can't refute the *substance* of the argument, you have no business arguing it.

But what does that say about a mod author who can't deal with such critique, when it's a paid work? Remember: I paid for the right to pass judgement. I'm a paying customer, I'm entitled to speak my mind on it.

What's done is done. It's where we go from here and in so doing I'm leaving you guys alone to figure out what you're going to do about it. Maybe you will figure out a way to SMF, maybe you won't. But either way it's not my problem any more.

Re: Fuck the SMF project. Fuck it up its stupid ass.
« Reply #53, on March 17th, 2013, 04:27 PM »Last edited on March 17th, 2013, 05:54 PM by Yoshi2889
Yeah, he can't deal with the critique *at all*. When I poked him about your post on here (sorry if he wasn't supposed to know, but it's in the public area after all), he opened the fire on me. "You're a fucking idiot", "You're joining Arantor in his shit", "His crap is all nit picky shit that doesn't matter" and all that (he literally said those things). I'm done with him, really, and I'm not going to hide what I think of him.

emanuele

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Re: Fuck the SMF project. Fuck it up its stupid ass.
« Reply #54, on March 17th, 2013, 05:25 PM »
Quote from Kindred on March 17th, 2013, 02:26 PM
There were a bunch of issues with Lab's free version that he passed off by saying "they are all fixed in the pro version" (so I don't want to use that as a starting point.
But that's the funny part: the mod is there with an open source license (I mean the "lite"), so it can be fixed and redistributed by anyone interested, no need to wait for the paid version. ;)
Quote from Kindred on March 17th, 2013, 02:26 PM
(and yes, if I do make my own or make improvements, I would always share them. I am not in favor of making paid mods)
I'm not against. :P (though I almost never did any, just one or two and I still feel a bit guilty because I think I took too much money...meh, from time to time I feel I'm dumb... lol)

runic

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Re: Fuck the SMF project. Fuck it up its stupid ass.
« Reply #55, on March 17th, 2013, 05:34 PM »
live, and Oracle thanks for the vote of confidence. ::)

As I said in the topic Arantor provided quite a good response even provided Idea's where Lab could improve, Colin took what was said as an attack and vbgamer jumped on the bandwagon, it must have hurt vbgamer to say the nice things about Pete and the later comments were quite positive for vbgamer.   Also so its known out of the list that vbgamer posted as people he knows hates him, he has only approached 2 of the people, Bigguy and Arantor, so I dont think he is all the sincere but this is not the point, I tried to stay neutral.  I think Arantor could have been more tactile but then it wouldnt be the guy we all love if he did that :)

Oracle

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Re: Fuck the SMF project. Fuck it up its stupid ass.
« Reply #56, on March 18th, 2013, 01:39 AM »
Nothing personal, merely telling it from my perspective.

There IS a problem. The fact that you guys don't acknowledge one exists and persist in carrying on with your business as usual approach with NO intent given toward improvement of your operation adds to that.

Champion' s in any arena have the ability to take on board criticisms, work on them with the sole intent of transforming weaknesses into strengths. This is the same principle employed in the corporate world under the guise of Customer Service. Feedback, is a very important ingredient or tool as it were to management that enables any corporate entity to shape their future in accordance with public opinion. It ensures currency of design and is viewed as a means to an end. One that targets popularity and tailors a product that everyone is able to embrace not just the select few. The sad fact is that those who ignore "What Is" eventually fall behind or @ the very least pale to insignificance.

Refusal to acknowledge reality when it is presented in the manner that this subject was, DOES reverberate through the community. SMF sadly is failing to live up to its former glory when infact it should be endeavouring to surpass it. If it means a changing of the guard then so be it. CEOs in any institution are handsomely rewarded for their foresight and are ruthlessly rejected when they fail to live up to expectation. I see no difference in the principle that should be applied in this predicament!

Atone or suffer the consequence. Simple >...Machines....Its all in there!

Shawn

  • The Roadie
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Re: Fuck the SMF project. Fuck it up its stupid ass.
« Reply #57, on March 18th, 2013, 03:29 PM »
Quote from Arantor on March 15th, 2013, 05:38 PM
Yeah, he's now set it to $35 and vbgamer hasn't updated the page listing yet.
He lowered the price because everyone complained. I won't be purchasing it myself because for what little feature is does, the cost isn't worth it. IMO. But Lab is a good kid and generally means to be a good kid (kid as in he is under 18). I think he is serious but still quite young with much to learn.

Kindred

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Re: Fuck the SMF project. Fuck it up its stupid ass.
« Reply #58, on March 18th, 2013, 08:46 PM »
rotflmao...

it's really funny that you compare SMF to for-profit/corporations, since that is supposedly what drove Norv away.

However, this issue here with Lab's mod and the response to Arantor's analysis is not actually an SMF problem. It is a problem with a specific individual and his reaction to criticism. This is unrelated to any larger issues at or with SMF.

As for issues at SMF....
oracle - we all know that there is a problem - Arantor and some others have made statements about what they think the problem is. Some of them (not Arantor) have even made demands as to what they feel we MUST do. The fact is that some of the rest of us disagree about the specifics of the problem (not that there is a problem, but we disagree on the factors and potential resolution).



As for your comment about mailboxes, Arantor...    (as I said: ..."public comments are the only place ***I*** have seen any discussion on this...." I can only react to what was done publicly. I have no idea which other team members may have jumped on your for your comments... but I thought they were fairly presented, myself. Then again, I'm the same, blunt, sort of guy.


Oracle

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Re: Fuck the SMF project. Fuck it up its stupid ass.
« Reply #59, on March 18th, 2013, 10:07 PM »Last edited on March 18th, 2013, 10:21 PM
Hi Kindred,

Nice to see I'm able to provide a dose of amusement.

Hmmm... "unrelated to any larger issues at or with SMF."

I draw you to your remark..."not that there is a problem, but we disagree on the factors and potential resolution."

Fact is ....SMF > IS in a state of paralysis is it not?

That my dear fellow is NOT a laughing matter and it does go back to what I just highlighted about taking on board any criticism / feedback and addressing issues whether the team is in agreement or not.

The way to resolution is through ACTION! > If that's not forthcoming then I suppose we should all line up to put head in sand.

This is exactly what it looks like to people on the outside looking in and why key developers within the organisation have left!