When can I download Wedge? / Where can I download Wedge?

Arantor

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When can I download Wedge? / Where can I download Wedge?
« on October 19th, 2011, 02:48 PM »
Right now, you can't. It's not done yet. And if we were to release it right now, it would really be inappropriate.

There's a lot of things that we want, and need, to do that haven't yet been done. Some things are fundamentally broken or missing critical functionality.

Even if you're a hardcore user, it's still not ready for you, because even the installation doesn't work off the bat without some work (the installer is not stored in the main folder, and has to be moved from another folder prior to installation to make it work properly)

We know you're eager, because we've told you all the goodies that are coming in Wedge, some that are done, some that are coming. But you really need to understand that firstly, it's just two of us writing it, and that we do have lives outside of Wedge - even though we're putting a vast amount of time into it.

This post will be updated in the future, though, as it becomes available.


Why did I even write this? It's because I'm frustrated. I've lost count of the number of people who've come here asking for downloads. Some post publicly, some privately message me, and I'm fed up of it. We don't owe anyone anything, and while I love working on it, I don't love feeling like it's a noose around my neck - and each time I see such a message, I feel like that's where it'll head, as people don't seem to realise that we do this for fun, and not because we're paid to make them something for nothing.

Wedge has a bright and amazing future but you have to let us make it happen in a way we're comfortable with - and that means not rushing releases. That means we take as long as we feel is necessary to make it work. You can see the progress in the New Revs thread. That should give you some idea of the scale of changes that are underway - commits happen every day or at worst every couple of days, far higher and far more thoroughly than a good number of open source projects manage, in fact.

I'm also annoyed a lot in the fact that people don't seem to look around before asking. Is it really that hard to grasp that it isn't ready yet? Is it really that hard to spend a little time looking around and seeing what we're about? I guess it actually is, given how many people I'm aware of have just come along, posted without reading just because they want cool free stuff, without taking the time to understand what we're about.

Anyway, here endeth the rant. Keep calm and carry on!
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DragoN

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Re: When can I download Wedge? / Where can I download Wedge?
« Reply #1, on October 19th, 2011, 02:58 PM »
1st of all - No, I cant read Thoughts comments..

But when i post that thought it wasnt in a bad way. To be honest I didnt even realise that it would get a so fast reply.. Dont get me wrong.. I just wrote that has a "thought" really..

Now about wedge, you guys are building a hole new thing so its normal to take cautions and time. I understand how annoying it can be to get so many messages/PMs about it, but take it in a good way. Many messages mean that many ppl are waiting for it.   :)

Well, sorry for my EN and sorry if I piss you in any way.. It was just a though really.. Take your time, I will be arround waiting for it.

Best regards to all.

Arantor

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Re: When can I download Wedge? / Where can I download Wedge?
« Reply #2, on October 19th, 2011, 03:05 PM »
Please understand, it wasn't directed specifically at you. It's the fact this comes up surprisingly often, and the answer is within the forum.

The problem is that people don't really get the fact of how much work is really required and when they realise we've been on this for over a year already, they seem to expect it sooner rather than later... and a number of those people don't care about quality, or indeed it being good for anyone else, they just want what they want and don't care about anyone else.

Many people waiting for something isn't necessarily a good thing. First of all, it puts pressure on us to deliver, which for a hobby project isn't necessarily what we want. But it's interesting to note how many people are enthusiastic, and I suspect that reflects how many people are discontented with SMF 2.0 going final.[1]

People who appreciate the effort and time, and are prepared to wait and add their opinion when we put something up for discussion - this is great, and is exactly the sort of people (like yourself, I hasten to add) that I want to work with, that I want to be involved with.

People who just come here expecting free stuff and not putting anything of their own in, I have zero patience for. You strike me as firmly in the first group :)
 1. A fact that I warned them about, over a year ago, even before 2.0 RC4 was out.

DragoN

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Re: When can I download Wedge? / Where can I download Wedge?
« Reply #3, on October 19th, 2011, 03:21 PM »
My oppinion on that is that if you guys are buildind something for free there's no space for anyone to argue about it. They just have to wait till it comes out and [only] if you guys want to make it public..

About  the "and is exactly the sort of people (like yourself, I hasten to add) that I want to work with", dont count on that. Not really because i dont want to but only because im just a 0 at scripting..  :eheh:

Well, once again, sorry that I took some of your time for this. Wasnt really my intention..


Cumpz.

Arantor

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Re: When can I download Wedge? / Where can I download Wedge?
« Reply #4, on October 19th, 2011, 03:28 PM »
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there's no space for anyone to argue about it. They just have to wait till it comes out and [only] if you guys want to make it public..
That's the thing. Too many people seem to assume that things are their 'right' to have.
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About  the "and is exactly the sort of people (like yourself, I hasten to add) that I want to work with", dont count on that. Not really because i dont want to but only because im just a 0 at scripting..
But it's not all about the code. Some of the best suggestions here have been from people who aren't coders. Too much of SMF is built by coders who think like coders, and not enough input from non-coder users.

Take the admin panel. I understand the logic by which it was all built. I understand the implications on a technical level of why things are where they are and how they are. But the average user doesn't, and it makes it harder for average users to use because they don't see it how a programmer sees it. They see it how a regular person would see it - which ends up being confusing and frustrating.
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Well, once again, sorry that I took some of your time for this. Wasnt really my intention..
No need to apologise; the only person who needs to apologise is me for snapping like I did, for which I'm sorry. The above rant wasn't aimed at you, just you happened to be the one who tripped the breaker, so to speak. At least now there's a general thread answering the question and it's probably the most obvious place for it...

Besides, it's nice to have someone else in the camp who understands what's going on :)

DirtRider

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Re: When can I download Wedge? / Where can I download Wedge?
« Reply #5, on October 19th, 2011, 03:34 PM »
So is it ready yet  :whistle:  :lol:

I agree before you guys even think about releasing it it must be solid as you know how it is you have those waiting in the wings just to tear apart all the hard work you have put into it. So with a labour of love like this I always say it will be ready when it's ready  :eheh:
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Arantor

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Re: When can I download Wedge? / Where can I download Wedge?
« Reply #6, on October 19th, 2011, 03:58 PM »
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I agree before you guys even think about releasing it it must be solid as you know how it is you have those waiting in the wings just to tear apart all the hard work you have put into it
Oh, and that's going to happen. I learned the hard way about users breaking things I was sure were unbreakable.

DirtRider

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Arantor

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Nao

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Re: When can I download Wedge? / Where can I download Wedge?
« Reply #9, on October 19th, 2011, 08:50 PM »
Quote from Arantor on October 19th, 2011, 03:05 PM
The problem is that people don't really get the fact of how much work is really required and when they realise we've been on this for over a year already, they seem to expect it sooner rather than later...
I myself expected it sooner... :P
Of course, back in day one, I would never have imagined Wedge to become such a huge project.
But still... I think we should start showing the demo to everyone. Most of the software is stable -- AFAIK the public area is entirely stable and, if it isn't, it'll be fixed quickly.
We're not ready to show off the admin area yet (because of all the changes in the plugin system, icons, etc, that Pete is working on), so that'll come a bit later...
My current schedule has obviously been modified compared to my last one. Now I'm expecting to release the demo site by the end of October, and hopefully the alpha before the end of the year... and the gold version by January 1st because everybody knows the alpha will only last for a few days :P

Nah, seriously, back when we originally announced it publicly, we were about 6 months away from release (around March), then SMF surprised us and released SMF2 Gold sooner than I expected, so instead of targeting for a release in the week after SMF2 was out, we decided to just not bother with SMF anymore.
You can be sure we'll be out before 2.1 though... :P
We can't promise other forks won't be out before ours, but even if we're not the first to release -- what Wedge holds in its core is something that definitely shows how it's been in development for 14 months now. (Heck, with our New Revs topic, I believe we regularly give ideas to other implementors... :P)
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First of all, it puts pressure on us to deliver, which for a hobby project isn't necessarily what we want. But it's interesting to note how many people are enthusiastic, and I suspect that reflects how many people are discontented with SMF 2.0 going final.
Sure. And I'm also a bit upset not being able to offer anything else than our conversations and commit reports... (And just because SMF doesn't provide realtime changelog doesn't change anything to that.)

billy2

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Re: When can I download Wedge? / Where can I download Wedge?
« Reply #10, on October 19th, 2011, 09:27 PM »
Anyone spending any longer than a nano second on Wedge.org before asking the 'when' question, can see the relentless progress being made.
Why rush, we waited long enough for 2.0....... With very little angst (not)
 :niark:
<br /><br />cough, cough.

Cassiel

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Re: When can I download Wedge? / Where can I download Wedge?
« Reply #11, on October 19th, 2011, 11:01 PM »
Quote from DirtRider on October 19th, 2011, 03:34 PM
I agree before you guys even think about releasing it it must be solid as you know how it is you have those waiting in the wings just to tear apart all the hard work you have put into it.
You mean Beta Testers? :P
Quote from Nao on October 19th, 2011, 08:50 PM
Sure. And I'm also a bit upset not being able to offer anything else than our conversations and commit reports... (And just because SMF doesn't provide realtime changelog doesn't change anything to that.)
I don't see why it should change that though. You offer up progress in a visual form. The face of SMF seems stagnant, with so few news updates or blog posts. With the openness that you and Pete bring forth you show everybody that this project has lifeblood that is running at 100 mph[1]. You give people the confidence of the project, which is a lot more meaningful than the code itself. After all, even if you had fantastic software there's no point if nobody is around to endorse it. So keep your chin up, Nao. You both are doing a fantastic job. :)
 1. Or 161 kph, if you prefer.

Arantor

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Re: When can I download Wedge? / Where can I download Wedge?
« Reply #12, on October 19th, 2011, 11:10 PM »
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running at 100 mph
Personally, I prefer to hit 88 mph, when you're gonna see some serious shit[1] :D

As for everything else, we do try and offer up not only the pictures of how things are going, and the changelog but also insight and discussion into the direction we're going. Not all of that insight and discussion is currently public, but it isn't just two madmen with boxes.[2]
 1. Movie quote. Can't be tamed, lest I diminished the effect, sorry.
 2. Doctor Who reference.

william777

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Nao

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Re: When can I download Wedge? / Where can I download Wedge?
« Reply #14, on October 20th, 2011, 06:59 AM »
Quote from Arantor on October 19th, 2011, 11:10 PM
Personally, I prefer to hit 88 mph, when you're gonna see some serious shit
We're the docs, Doc!
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As for everything else, we do try and offer up not only the pictures of how things are going, and the changelog but also insight and discussion into the direction we're going. Not all of that insight and discussion is currently public, but it isn't just two madmen with boxes.
We're the docs, Doc!