Wedge

No. And please do not use that lame excuse.

I find it amusing that the "language barrier" card only comes out when arguing, never on other instances, for example, you did understood my plans for 3.0 right? yo did understood my plans for the mod development boards program right?  you did understood when I created the cust team leader open candidatures right? you did understood all my ideas for the new cust site right? all the people who I offer support to, all the mod authors I exchange pms to, none of them ever told me anything...   I guess they are all equally bad as me...

How come now suddenly my understanding of English language become so low that I wrongly interpret everything you write?  I  fail to realize that... must be a language/culture barrier LOL

You were the one who said I had a grudge against you... not I. I have no grudge against anyone.
You are the one who keeps bringing the corp - project issue when I haven't said anything about it.Put that aside please, you are the only one who had mentioned that. Do focus on why didn't you provided any constructive criticism for my ideas for SMF 3.0... that was an "interteam crap" and yet you were soo stubborn and soo participative... it somehow doesn't match with what you said: " I have pretty much stayed out of interteam crap."  ;)

You keep avoiding the bullet, the issue is not the silly misunderstandings or if devs are divas or not... the issue is SMF is headless and has absolutely no future, there will always be divas and there will always be misunderstandings, you keep giving too much attention to those little details hoping that the bigger ones will magically disappear.

I don't need to curse to bring any force to my words... my words alone are strong enough to stand for their own.

But alas... it is all a language/culture issue... there you go, problem solved... now if you excuse me, I got a movie to watch before going to bed.

ummm... I didn't post on your 3.0 plans because I have no opinion on them
Yup... I btought up the corp versus project stuff because THAT was the stuff which you posted on that I commented on. I had no opinion on your other stuff and thus did not post.


As for why I bring up the language/culture thing?   Well, because you so consistantly misinterpret what I say that it is either willful or just because you are not understanding what I am saying. (and, since you have such a good grasp of English, otherwise it has to be cultural, neh pas?)

and you might note that the past few posts, Arantor and I have been saying the exact same thing. SMF needs two solid, strong leaders. one for dev and one as PM.


Also, the curse words are another cultural thing.  I am a new englander american. We use curse words as emphasis, as commentary and to express incredulity...   it's a part of our culture up here. I actually use such much more in spoken conversations than in written (as do most of my associates). Thus reinforcing my belief that there has to be a cultural gap here...

I'm watching re-runs of knight rider, myself. :)

I'm sorry, but cursing is an universal thing, I'm surrounded by people who can only speak while cursing every 2 words, the fact that I chose not to curse doesn't mean all the people in my country do the same... and as a sociologist I'm pretty aware of that, thank you very much.I didn't ask for your opinion, I asked if you understood me (assuming you did read any of those topics). I used all of those to make an example (to demonstrate the language barrier card only comes out when arguing) and yet you misunderstood me completely... awesome!I'm sorry, what part exactly did I misunderstood?So? everyone knows that... the key is how to get those 2 people and how you (you as in you guys, not you as singular) had those 2 people (2 devs) and now they are gone.

Again, not my business, now that I explained why I left (you did understood that right?), I have nothing to do here or at smf.org  for that matter.

Actually, curse words is not a universal thing. If I spoke as I usually do when I was down in the southern US, they would be shocked and dismayed.
Same with many of the japanese hat I have dealt with...
I probably should watch my language a little more closely (and I used to do so), but, as everyone is so fond of pointing out, volunteer projects are not corporate business.

So, I don't know about your specific folks... But we use invective words in every day language around here...

facepalm*

Kindred,

Every culture has its own way of cursing, your cursing might be different from mine or from the Japanese people but it is cursing nonetheless.

I curse when talking with my friends.
I do not curse when talking with someone at work.

I'm pretty sure you do the same.
The same curse I use here don't have any effect on people from a different state or they will be shocked and dismayed too... the same example you provide works here too.

Me refusing to curse has nothing to do with language manners in a workplace, and I too use cursing as a way to make emphasis just the same as you, I deliberately don't curse when posting because I see no need to make emphasis for my words via cursing.

Took me .1 seconds to read yours, we are even now.



In resume, Kindred, all possible examples you might want to give can be applied where I live too, can be applied on Kamchatka peninsula, Nigeria or Japan... doesn't matter... sure, every culture has it's own way to define where cursing is acceptable, but all of them has a common ground, a ground that can be traced back to the very first languages and the need to express yourself.

Anyhow, I did asked what exactly did I misunderstood, I got no response. :^^;:

Hmmm... We'll have to disagree on your commentary of cursing. ;)
I have studied etymology, not sociology, but it shows a somewhat different perception.
:p

as for what you have  misunderstood...
Well, you accused me of telling you that you were wrong all the time, of calling you a poison personality and several other things...  None of which I actually did. The only time, that I can recall saying that oh were wrong, consistently, was when you had commentary on the org versus project.
Oh yes, and you basically said that devs leaving SMF is all my fault, because I demand control over them...  Which is also untrue.
Hmmm... What else? Oh... That i perceive a grudge when people disagree with me.

Did I miss any of your accusations?
Basically, you seem to have a very bizarre and mistaken view of me.

How you are as a person I don't think is too relevant lo, after all you(Kindred) did lead the process after the break with the old SMF team - and for that SMF was better no doubt.

But yeah, a dev like Arantor would be helpful in regaining SMF to forward motion again. But one dev cannot do it all, thats why when Grudge, Unknown and Compuart was around, things happened and happened fast. 3 devs IMHO is the least you should have..but save for Nao(which prob. wont be interested), who could that be? that won't stand for BS, still want to work with it and have the necessary skills? And not to mention people that can work with other areas than just core code. I humbly point at the fact that SMF is still using the same theme(even 2.1 is more or less the same,save for the framing) as in 2007-2008. There simply are NO designers left on the team lol. Not any you appoint making a brand new default theme anyway.

As sad it is, I too can only acknowledge that SMF time is slowly dwindling away and that while one of its forks *might* make it, i fear it will never gain the same success as SMF was when it came out. Part the present circumstances, but also a big part how internet users have changed recent years. Forums aren't the only arena for discussion anymore, it might even be the smallest for all I know(and suspect).

I never said devs left because of you...  I stated my reasons, my personal own reasons, not the entire dev team ones...
One of my reasons is you (and the other one who curse every 2 words) wanting to keep expanding the old 2.0 branch... and release minor releases every X months to keep people happy and SMF barely alive... isn't that true?

You were the only 2 people who stud against my idea, both of you didn't actually had any kind of power within SMF directions, you aren't in the steering committee and the other one isn't even a SMF team member, he is on servers team, an organizational team with no powers over SMF the project. There were other people who didn't like my idea (Motoko for example), all of them aren't team members either but NPO members and yet they manage to have enough authority to decide the direction of a project that was promised autonomy. :^^;:

Not a single truly SMF team member (you know, the ones who can actually say they disagree with me) even had the chance to comment on my ideas...

As for the poisonous comment,
I was one of the devs that raised hell back then and you said you wanted to remove those, it is only natural to assume I was included on those poisonous people, and yes, don't lie, you actually said "poisonous" your actual words, not invented by me, don't sugarcoated your words just because this is a public board please.

Please do quote my first response on that topic, the one where I said I won't comment on the actual idea of replacing people like cattle (because I thought it was a monstrosity) and instead gave you ideas on how to attract new blood. All those ideas were simply dismissed...

I also said your actions and opinions drove SMF into the undead state it currently is right now, not completely dead but not alive either. Can hardly labeled that as an accusation when all you need to do is go to the smf github page and see the empty 3.0 repo, the lack of external people really interested on commit code to SMF and the lack off devs reviewing the few commits (oh how much are you gonna miss Ema!) every now and then people directly or indirectly related to SMF occasionally send.

And no, I don't have any opinion of you as a person.

Compuart and Amacythe :whistle:

You have a twisted sense of humour, TE :P

I think this is quite an important topic not because all the arguments but because of the points that are being made here. Now that people are starting to expose some differences in opinion and what's been going on behind the scenes at SMF, it becomes apparent on some things that definitely should be changed. I think there are some arguments on change that can be made effective to SMF and ones that probably will come in this topic too... But the question is: Will this thread just be here to throw around ideas and arguments or will these ideas actually be implemented to help steer SMF in a (hopefully) new, positive direction?

I don't think that matters so much. I think there is an understanding on both sides as to what is needed, but the fundamental change most needed isn't going to happen: getting great people up top running the show. We even agree on what traits are necessary, but people who are known in the community as having the necessary things don't want the job. Which means recruiting outside the community, which is nigh on impossible.