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[Flames] Dream Portal
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Arantor

  • As powerful as possible, as complex as necessary.
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[Flames] Re: Dream Portal
« Reply #30, on April 1st, 2011, 07:57 PM »
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ou didn't answer my question. Why Fork it instead trying to be a part of the DP team and make it better?
Are you serious? After the crap Solomon gave me arguing the toss over a stupid performance tweak for all the wrong reasons? Not a hope in hell. I was previously on the development team of DP a long time ago and didn't contribute a single line of code because it was badly managed back then, and the way it's going, I don't want to go there.


As for the portals, I honestly wouldn't want to include any of the current ones, not because they're bad at what they do - because they're not - but they're lacking vision. They're all very similar with a lot of similar ideas in there and for the most part the differentiation isn't in their featureset but the ease of the admin panel which SP has above the others, so even though TP is more powerful, most people don't use it and instead combine SP with the download system and/or a gallery.
When we unite against a common enemy that attacks our ethos, it nurtures group solidarity. Trolls are sensational, yes, but we keep everyone honest. | Game Memorial

Nao

  • Dadman with a boy
  • Posts: 16,082
[Flames] Re: Dream Portal
« Reply #31, on April 1st, 2011, 08:01 PM »
Speaking about portals, maybe we should be clear about one of Wedge's differences with SMF.

It has a sidebar. You see, like the one here on the left.
The sidebar is there to stay. It's not going away. It's going to be on every single page of the forum. It will contain contextual data. You're gonna have to live with it, hate it or love it whatever, it's here to stay. Probably there will be plugins out there to disable it, but it'll be there by default.
Also, it's awfully easy to add a sub-template (code block) to the sidebar (or anywhere else, for that matter.)

Because of these two points, even if we don't provide a portal system, anyone will be able to easily add blocks -- or simply, release a plugin that allows you to do it. We're not worried about that really.

texasman1979

  • Posts: 99
[Flames] Re: Dream Portal
« Reply #32, on April 1st, 2011, 08:07 PM »
ok with the sidebar, will you add a panel to customize it without mods? it is a reasonable thing to be in the default package. fully customizable sidebar from an admin panel.

what you think?
LOGIC is a FOUR letter word! :)

Arantor

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[Flames] Re: Dream Portal
« Reply #33, on April 1st, 2011, 08:07 PM »
I don't see why not, really.

Nao

  • Dadman with a boy
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[Flames] Re: Dream Portal
« Reply #34, on April 1st, 2011, 08:22 PM »
@Pete> Apart from the extra work? ;)
Well, really, yeah it makes sense to make it configurable...
Quote from JaZz on April 1st, 2011, 08:09 PM
ok, I said to my self I would shut up and not get involved in this...
Err...... Hello?
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but enough is enough!!! I don't know what has been going on in the past, but I can look at the present...I chose DP because for me it was the portal that attracted me the most...then a few days later it went down...I tried to log on for a few days, but no luck.... a couple of weeks later I tried again, and I found the site, a bit different than the last time, and I had to register again...that was not a big deal for me, I still enjoyed the portal so I wanted to ask more questions about it...
The "downtime" you experienced, was because the children were playing in the garden.
In the end, most of the DP team went to create their own DP fork (Envision Portal, IIRC), I don't know what has become of it -- I've never even installed DP so I wouldn't know (and couldn't care.)
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I see a lot of negative things about DP around lately, what I don't see is any one with a better alternative, solutions etc...my conclusion: it's all based on hurts, offenses and so on...
And... Does this mean it's not important?
What are you saying? That we should fork DP for Wedge and make enemies out of them?
Can I remind you that THEY told us (well, they told Pete, I wasn't part of this story), that they were vehemently against Wedge re-using DP?
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and since I don't know the whole history I can't say for sure who's right or wrong,
So why do you speak about this at all?
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but this I can say: DP is a great portal, let the past be the past and if you want to be a part of the future join in :)
Why would we join a mod team that insulted us, and that works for the SMF platform, which we have nothing to do with?
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I am sure that many of you guys are brilliant people, but don't let the past guide your future :)
Which is precisely why we're not considering DP at all...

What is it with DP?! Why does it provoke so many reactions? It's just a portal!
[Flames] Re: Dream Portal
« Reply #35, on April 1st, 2011, 08:24 PM »
Personally, I would suggest Portal 2 even though it's not out yet.

Wait, that is what we're talking about right...? :P

Nao

  • Dadman with a boy
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[Flames] Re: Dream Portal
« Reply #36, on April 1st, 2011, 08:33 PM »
The wedge is a lie!
[Flames] Re: Dream Portal
« Reply #37, on April 1st, 2011, 08:51 PM »
Quote from JaZz on April 1st, 2011, 08:42 PM
You never installed it or tried it out? and still you're so negative to it?!
I'm not negative about the SOFTWARE. I'm negative about the team in charge. It's exactly the same as for SMF, you know... Love the software, hate the management!
And even then, I never talked with the management, myself. But I don't take it lightly when others are behaving aggressively with my friends. So, yeah, I'm with Pete on this. I'm with live627 who felt kinda betrayed.
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I installed before I knew anything about this conflict and I liked it ;)
That's good for you. Does it warrant that you come here to discuss something that you obviously have nothing to do with...?
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Because I like the portal, and I don't think it deserves all shit it has been getting lately! FYI that was why I wrote this message in the first place...
Did anyone say anything against the software itself?!

I think you lost an opportunity to stay quiet ;)
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Well, I don't know who insulted you...the only thing I have seen is about a license that you guys didn't approve of....
Can you read?
- They were looking for a license model.
- Pete (Arantor) suggested BSD. They took BSD.
- Then Pete suggested we include DP into Wedge. We decided to give it a try. Out of politeness, he told them what we'd do. He then got a backlash from the DP team, saying he wasn't allowed to do it. They didn't know SHIT about what BSD was, and yet they were complaining that this happened at all.

Pete has yet to receive an apology from the DP team about this.
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and anyways the former team is totally replaced....maybe it is time to reconnect and talk things over?
Currently, DP is no longer using the BSD license from what we were told. So there's no even a point in connecting with the "current team" since we won't be able to share anything... Even if we ended up using DP, we'd have to use an older BSD version.

Got it?
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Well, it's a great portal! that doesn't deserve all the negativity it has been given lately ;) Witches was burned some centuries ago, it doesn't mean the people doing it was right :P
Witches weren't burnt for being stupid, on the contrary. So that doesn't apply here. :niark:

live627

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[Flames] Re: Dream Portal
« Reply #38, on April 1st, 2011, 08:56 PM »
Jazz - Who are you?

To expand on what Nao said, I've also been wrongly accused of destroying property...
A confident man keeps quiet.whereas a frightened man keeps talking, hiding his fear.

Arantor

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[Flames] Re: Dream Portal
« Reply #39, on April 1st, 2011, 09:00 PM »
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Can you read?
- They were looking for a license model.
- Pete (Arantor) suggested BSD. They took BSD.
- Then Pete suggested we include DP into Wedge. We decided to give it a try. Out of politeness, he told them what we'd do. He then got a backlash from the DP team, saying he wasn't allowed to do it. They didn't know SHIT about what BSD was, and yet they were complaining that this happened at all.

Pete has yet to receive an apology from the DP team about this.
Well, the full story is:
* Various devs came and went. Solomon and Chris remained the only really constant figures in charge, with everyone else being on the fence and back and forth.
* Early 2010 when I was basically full time on SimpleDesk, Chris came to me and talked me into helping. I said I'd take a look to see what I could do but that my time was limited, Chris seemed to think I agreed to develop it virtually singlehandedly.
* I took one look at the whole project and declared it chronically mismanaged. A lead developer whose idea of documentation was to ask him (which was fine until he had to go away on RL business), no licence, no CLA and no proper revision control. To a developer, that's not even providing the basic requirements.
* I talked through the choices of licences, they agreed with New BSD.
* I left, figuring that it just wasn't going to change, and SD was taking priority.
---- time passed ----
* Chris asked me to drop by occasionally and offer suggestions.
* Solomon makes a single comment about "the way some things should be done", I rebutted with points about why it wasn't necessarily the best way to go, cue 3 pages of ranting, that descended into personal insults (mostly from him)
* Sometime around there, the question came up for a portal for us. I suggested that we could look at it and see if there was anything we were interested in, but knowing that full well we would likely rewrite it anyway.
* This was mentioned to the DP team who took umbridge that we were looking to fork their work.
* They subsequently changed the licence, and we pointed out that we could if we wanted to but around that time, there were silly games being played over badges and we realised that we just didn't want the hassle.

But yeah.
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Wheres the "power" in that? A portal, in the real sense, is about a whole website experience, all the things that make a forum MORE than a forum - not a addon that mimic some basic tools for it. By adding Aeva Wedge will already be more than a forum - and thus a better portal than any portal! ;D
That's the thing. We'll likely have such facilities in Wedge to control layout without code changes, but not quite how the portals do it now.

Xarcell

  • Posts: 30
[Flames] Re: Dream Portal
« Reply #40, on April 1st, 2011, 09:21 PM »
OMG, the drama, the ego.

Arantor

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[Flames] Re: Dream Portal
« Reply #41, on April 1st, 2011, 09:24 PM »
If you're referring to any of my comments, there's no ego involved, just facts about what happened.

live627

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[Flames] Re: Dream Portal
« Reply #42, on April 1st, 2011, 09:32 PM »
The drama of their second best (or first?) developer calling it quits forevermore... ego already shattered...

ccbtimewiz

  • Posts: 10
[Flames] Re: Dream Portal
« Reply #43, on April 1st, 2011, 09:49 PM »
For once, and I don't mean to be disrespectful, but I agree with Nao. :P

It's just a portal, no need for so much reaction. DP was what it was, my first time getting to manage something, to arrange a team, to get development started, etc. Everyone has to start somewhere and that was my starting point. Lots of things could have been handled better, but all-in-all the experience, and more importantly the knowing of what is right to do and what is wrong to do, will help me in my future projects should they so come.

I can't speak for the others involved with it. Some loved it, others hated it, and some just disappeared. For those that were somehow effected personally by my portal-- I'm sorry, and please go see a therapist or something because it's not that big a deal.

I intend on writing mods for Wedge, and I intend on also doing them for Simple Machines as long as their software does not falter entirely.

Arantor

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[Flames] Re: Dream Portal
« Reply #44, on April 1st, 2011, 11:04 PM »
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I agree, SMF is good, but has potential to improve...and I can see how frustrating it must be if you have tried to input on the development of SMF only to be met by ignorance from some douche bags on the SMF team
Substitute 'SMF' for 'DP management' in the above and you sum up most of how I felt about trying to suggest things in my time with DP. That's ultimately why we want nothing to do with DP for Wedge. When Wedge is released, maybe DP will be ported, but it's a fair bet that a decent percentage of its functionality will be redundant, and will have to be rewritten from scratch anyway.
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