DoctorMalboro

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #105, on July 15th, 2011, 04:30 AM »
I can't still believe 'A good man goes to war'... It's just so... wrong and... awesome.

I find Torchwood not as appealing as DW, maybe because I'm sick of watching thrillers (well, Torchwood is a thriller(ish) show).

Arantor

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #106, on July 15th, 2011, 07:49 AM »
Quote from DoctorMalboro on July 15th, 2011, 04:30 AM
I can't still believe 'A good man goes to war'... It's just so... wrong and... awesome.

I find Torchwood not as appealing as DW, maybe because I'm sick of watching thrillers (well, Torchwood is a thriller(ish) show).
AGMGTW answers the question, of *who* River Song is, but doesn't explain much more than that. It doesn't, for example, explain who the good man that she murdered is (and was subsequently sent to Stormcage for). It doesn't explain how she was subsequently pardoned because she has been by the time of the events of Silence in the Library.

It also does not explain - and this is the most intricate detail - the military insignias. The military insignias shown on the uniforms in AGMGTW match the military insignias on the uniforms of the troops in The Time of Angels.

And if that's not enough, the insignia is... potentially... from a very old enemy of the Doctor.


As for TW, it isn't the same show as DW so it will appeal to some more than others. Though I'd argue that TW is no more a thrillerish show than DW itself is.
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Nao

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #107, on July 15th, 2011, 08:49 AM »
Quote from Arantor on July 15th, 2011, 07:49 AM
AGMGTW answers the question, of *who* River Song is, but doesn't explain much more than that.
Which, of course, is a disappointment for those who had already determined who she was (considering the many not-so-subtle hints dropped by Moffat in the course of the season.)
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It doesn't, for example, explain who the good man that she murdered is (and was subsequently sent to Stormcage for).
Well, to me there's no question about that, is it? The good man who went to war. The Doctor. She obviously killed him in the opening episode. (And of course it'll be explained later that it's not what we thought, and he didn't actually die. Not that it'd be a flesh copy though, it's highly unlikely.)
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It doesn't explain how she was subsequently pardoned because she has been by the time of the events of Silence in the Library.
Hmm yeah... Maybe the Doctor will eventually show up later in her timeline. I know he's inspired by that (relatively underwhelming) Time Traveller's Wife when it comes to the relationship between the Doctor and River, but in TTW, the man has random time jumps, it's not a completely opposite flow of the timeline, see? Maybe she's lying to him, maybe she saw an older Doctor right before she met in in SITL. (Heck, maybe Moffat will even find a trick to 'save' her from her relatively okay fate in Forest...)
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It also does not explain - and this is the most intricate detail - the military insignias. The military insignias shown on the uniforms in AGMGTW match the military insignias on the uniforms of the troops in The Time of Angels.
Is it of any matter really...?
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And if that's not enough, the insignia is... potentially... from a very old enemy of the Doctor.
I don't consider the old show as canon. :niark:
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As for TW, it isn't the same show as DW so it will appeal to some more than others. Though I'd argue that TW is no more a thrillerish show than DW itself is.
Really, TW season 2 was largely on par with Doctor Who for me -- actually, I liked it better than most DW seasons. That's why I was let down by season 3, although I did expect that to happen, given that the best characters in season 2 were all killed off or disposed of. Don't get me wrong, I like the other characters... It's just that they weren't given much of interest to do in s3, and I doubt it'll be any different in s4.
What I like in DW is precisely the opposite of what most RD episodes did: the intimate moments, the slow moments, the moments where story matters most than the thrills. That's why I hate cliffhangers: they're supposed to make you excited for the follow up. But I'm not excited for the follow up! I'm excited for what I'm seeing right now! I don't spend hours discussing theories on the next DW! (Well, happened to me, but mainly to play along, not for the sheer enjoyment of it :P)

Arantor

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #108, on July 15th, 2011, 09:12 AM »
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Which, of course, is a disappointment for those who had already determined who she was (considering the many not-so-subtle hints dropped by Moffat in the course of the season.)
The whole episode left me feeling as though "this isn't finished." So we know who she is, but we don't really know who she is. Being Amy's daughter was called even back in season 5, on the strength of the river/pond connection, but dismissed because of the apparent time gap (they're 21st Century, she's 51st Century). But really, 'risen higher than ever before and fallen so much further'... that hasn't happened yet.
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Well, to me there's no question about that, is it? The good man who went to war. The Doctor.
See, that's too obvious. The Doctor himself says that he's not a good man. "Good men don't need rules." / "Today's not the day to find out why I have so many."

I can't help thinking it's Rory that she ultimately goes to Stormcage for.
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She obviously killed him in the opening episode. (And of course it'll be explained later that it's not what we thought, and he didn't actually die. Not that it'd be a flesh copy though, it's highly unlikely.)
That's what we're meant to think. I don't think it's that obvious, and I can't help but think the Doctor shot there was the Ganger version, but no doubt we'll get an explanation. Fortunately I think it'll be more clever than the RTD style "poof and it is all sorted out" that we saw in seasons 1 and 3 and to a lesser degree season 4.
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Hmm yeah... Maybe the Doctor will eventually show up later in her timeline. I know he's inspired by that (relatively underwhelming) Time Traveller's Wife when it comes to the relationship between the Doctor and River, but in TTW, the man has random time jumps, it's not a completely opposite flow of the timeline, see? Maybe she's lying to him, maybe she saw an older Doctor right before she met in in SITL. (Heck, maybe Moffat will even find a trick to 'save' her from her relatively okay fate in Forest...)
The Doctor must show up again in her timeline, because their first meeting, where he arrives on her doorstep knowing everything about her hasn't been shown, neither has their last meeting at the towers of Darillium when he gives her his screwdriver.

As far as her fate in Forest, one thing about that never sat right with me: as I see it there is no reason whatsoever why she could not be saved. Her body is gone at the end of the process, and her essence is in the Library computer. Like the other 4022 that were saved - so there's no reason why she can't be resurrected other than "because."
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Is it of any matter really...?
It is if you want to know who she really is.

From her timeline, the Pandorica, then the crash of the Byzantium, then the Library happens - and somewhere in the middle of that are the events of AGMGTW. She's aware that he will find out who she is on that day, but its temporal placement would seem to be prior to the Pandorica.

So in the events there, she's helping fight against the military, in a sense, but by the time of the Byzantium, she's their prisoner and working for them, and by the time of the Library, she has been pardoned.
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I don't consider the old show as canon.
Moffat does. And that insignia looks very much like that of the Time Lord Omega.
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Really, TW season 2 was largely on par with Doctor Who for me -- actually, I liked it better than most DW seasons. That's why I was let down by season 3, although I did expect that to happen, given that the best characters in season 2 were all killed off or disposed of. Don't get me wrong, I like the other characters... It's just that they weren't given much of interest to do in s3, and I doubt it'll be any different in s4.
It isn't shaping up to be much different in S4 thus far.
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What I like in DW is precisely the opposite of what most RD episodes did: the intimate moments, the slow moments, the moments where story matters most than the thrills
Yeah, RTD wrote a lot of Torchwood.
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I'm excited for what I'm seeing right now! I don't spend hours discussing theories on the next DW! (Well, happened to me, but mainly to play along, not for the sheer enjoyment of it ;))
Hahah, well, I love the fact that Moffat drops in more clues than RTD did about where things are going and I love the fact that they can be pieced together, there's a feeling of knowing something that others might not have seen - and trying to figure out where it's all going, it's why people watch detective shows, just on a lesser scale.
Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #109, on July 16th, 2011, 12:42 AM »
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"analyzing it to death" kills literally the mystery.
Not for me it doesn't. If anything it refines it because I find myself wondering if I'm right or not, which means I'm actually more involved than not.
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The american twist sounds a bit strange
It's all about funding. The BBC touted out the tender to the different networks to see who'd be interested in co-production, and Starz in the US picked it up.
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Its. def. not something I'd watch several times, like I can with DW..or first season of Torchwood. That prob. says it all.
Quite possibly. I've watched TW:CoE (S3) a number of times now but not as much as I watched the first two seasons. The tighter storyline, 5 successive episodes as opposed to a loose arc, it works but it's a little much, I think.

This has a tight arc too; it's one story, 10 episodes long. It remains to be seen if it's over the top or not.

DoctorMalboro

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #110, on July 16th, 2011, 03:16 AM »
I think the good man that she killed looks like it is The Doctor, but it isn't... If is a Moffat brillant idea, I'll be a freaking twist about it!

Aaron

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Nao

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #112, on July 24th, 2011, 10:54 PM »
In...teresting!

DoctorMalboro

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #113, on July 25th, 2011, 06:34 AM »
*Imitating Eccleston accent*

Brilliant!

Arantor

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #114, on July 25th, 2011, 09:10 PM »
I haven't seen episode 2 yet (and episode 3 due here on Thursday) but I'm not sure if I can be bothered to, either. RTD seems to be going back to his roots somewhat, which is to draw drama out of situations - hence TW:MD is about bringing the human drama to the fore, not the sci-fi aspect of 1 & 2, but it's a different kind of drama to 3, the idea being less about dealing with our fear of the unknown and more about how our society can fall apart.

Nao

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #115, on July 26th, 2011, 07:44 AM »
TW was RTD's redemption. Now it may be his downfall...

Ah, well. It's not like I expect TW to be any good after COM's fiasco for me... :^^;:

YogiBear

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #116, on July 26th, 2011, 01:19 PM »
Last night, I watched a repeat on BBC3 of The Lodger and enjoyed it every bit as much as the first time around.  :)

Arantor

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #117, on July 26th, 2011, 01:21 PM »
Have to say The Lodger was not one of my favourite episodes from season 5. Not bad, just not that good either.

Nao

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Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #118, on July 26th, 2011, 02:14 PM »
Oh come on. Everyone here can relate to this good hearted geek :p
Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #119, on July 27th, 2011, 04:06 PM »
I've been watching the first two TW episodes. Thank you guys for telling me ahead that it was not the 'proper' TW. That way, I've been able to enjoy it for what it is -- a basic, regular but ultimately quite nice action thriller show from the US. Going to watch episode 3 now...