So, SMF has declared the cold war...

Nao

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Re: So, SMF has declared the cold war...
« Reply #135, on November 1st, 2011, 11:50 PM »
(possibly my longest ever iPod post :P)
Posted: November 1st, 2011, 11:47 PM

As for my posts --- they're nothing compared to yours. Most of my posts were about Aeva media so it wouldn't be a huge loss anyway.

Arantor

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Re: So, SMF has declared the cold war...
« Reply #136, on November 1st, 2011, 11:55 PM »
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Pete, ichbin told me to fix aeme to remove the fetch code. I said I thought it was done earlier buy I probably only did it for Aeva lite. I said I might look into it but that even if I fixed it, earlier installs would still fetch the page so I suggested to change the mod page id in the database for an immediate result and just block any direct requests to the original mod page. I only suggested that.
That's what they've done. If I head to the relevant page, I get an empty response, rather than any other kind of failure; the connection is simply dropped, no page served, which is implementing your suggestion to the letter.
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The sad thing is that I just didn't l care about AeMe for smf. Meaning that whether it was online or not didn't matter to me.
What I disapprove is that this was done without my express consent.
*nods* I understand that.
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The point is that I own the files. I worked on it for two f'king years. I think I've had enough influence over Smf's success to have a say here.
Sadly, that's not how it works. The minute you signed the CLA, a surprising number of rights were considered to have been granted. Technically, they have a licence to embed it into SMF if they so chose... (seriously, read the old SMF licence and in particular the terms of distributing modifications) but that's not going to happen, not because they can or can't, but because they won't.
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I left the file online because I was cool with the smf team. My original plans were to delete AeMe for smf entirely so I wouldn't have to deal with supporting it. I cut the problem in two and left the file to show everything was cool.
It didn't quite work like that from where I'm standing, but ultimately this has to come down to you and them; it's your work after all, and their... creative... ways of rewarding you for it.
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Anyway. This post wasn't to rekindle my 'flame' with smf. Just meant to say I didn't approve of this move and thus I'm off the site and don't want to be associated with it any longer. Including contributions.
You don't get off that lightly, just as I didn't. The CLA is a surprisingly big stick they have to wield should they need to, but at the time we both signed them, I at least never dreamed it would come to where it eventually did, where it is used to hold work hostage. (Yes, there's no other word for it; when they removed my ability to delete my own posts, that was effectively keeping my work hostage without any ability for me to have a meaningful say in how it's used. It burned, but it's no longer my problem.)
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As for my posts --- they're nothing compared to yours. Most of my posts were about Aeva media so it wouldn't be a huge loss anyway.
A lot of mine weren't really that meaningful either, when it came down to it. A lot of them were just asking people the same questions over and over and over again.
When we unite against a common enemy that attacks our ethos, it nurtures group solidarity. Trolls are sensational, yes, but we keep everyone honest. | Game Memorial

Nao

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Re: So, SMF has declared the cold war...
« Reply #137, on November 2nd, 2011, 12:11 AM »
That cla was too unclear anyway. What is a contribution. And I don't consider it retroactive anyway. That would stand in court I reckon.

Arantor

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Re: So, SMF has declared the cold war...
« Reply #138, on November 2nd, 2011, 12:25 AM »
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That cla was too unclear anyway. What is a contribution. And I don't consider it retroactive anyway. That would stand in court I reckon.
It's not unclear, a contribution is defined, and it is retroactive, and I think it will stand in court - by their definitions, too.

Let me quote the relevant points.
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You accept and agree to the following terms and conditions for Your
present and future Contributions submitted to Simple Machines
There's your retroactive definition covered - it's a licence for *present* as in already given, as well as future, contributions.
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"Contribution" shall mean any original work of authorship,
   including any modifications or additions to an existing work, that
   is intentionally submitted by You to Simple Machines for inclusion
   in, or documentation of, any of the products owned or managed by
   Simple Machines (the "Work"). For the purposes of this definition,
   "submitted" means any form of electronic, verbal, or written
   communication sent to Simple Machines or its representatives,
   including but not limited to communication on electronic mailing
   lists, source code control systems, and issue tracking systems that
   are managed by, or on behalf of, Simple Machines for the purpose of
   discussing and improving the Work, but excluding communication that
   is conspicuously marked or otherwise designated in writing by You
   as "Not a Contribution."
A post is legally an original work of authorship, as is a mod (and Aeva certainly fits both original work of authorship, plus a modification to an existing work, i.e. SMF)

The mod licence covers how 'inclusion in' works with respect to dev rights over mods, and your posts are covered under 'documentation of' the products.

Submission being electronic communication on electronic mailing lists (which includes a forum), source code control systems (anything you put in SVN, even if it was reverted), and issue tracking systems (any bug report). Note that it is including but *not limited to* these things, and that can be stretched without too much effort to include anything you ever posted including Aeva on sm.org.
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but excluding communication that
   is conspicuously marked or otherwise designated in writing by You
   as "Not a Contribution."
Here's where the get-out clause would be, except that I don't think you can 'take it back' once submitted, unless it was defined as 'not a contribution' at the time of posting, or at the point of signing the CLA. I had to make it clear on arantormods for example that none of the mods published were to be considered Contributions just to cover myself.
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Grant of Copyright License. Subject to the terms and conditions of
   this Agreement, You hereby grant to Simple Machines and to
   recipients of software distributed by Simple Machines a perpetual,
   worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable
   copyright license to reproduce, prepare derivative works of,
   publicly display, publicly perform, sublicense, and distribute Your
   Contributions and such derivative works.
And there's where the hammer comes down. Once they have right to it, that's it, game over.

IchBin

  • Posts: 11
Re: So, SMF has declared the cold war...
« Reply #139, on November 2nd, 2011, 01:10 AM »
Not going to comment on the CLA issue, as I really don't care about that. But concerning Aeva, please don't read more into what I have already said Nao and what you noticed on the mod site. I have specifically told you why the mod was removed. Your mod on all those different sites was hammering the server (amongst other hammering) so steps were taken to make your mod unavailable in order to get the server stable. For now the mod sits in our approval queue until we can decide how to handle everything that I've been talking to you about in PM here. If you'd like to get the files to look at the code, I can get those for you. But right now nobody has access to them since they've blocked access to the mod.

ETA: attaching the aeva lite file.

📎 Aeva-Lite-7.1.708.zip - 104.78 kB, downloaded 42 times.


Arantor

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Re: So, SMF has declared the cold war...
« Reply #140, on November 2nd, 2011, 01:16 AM »
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please don't read more into what I have already said
Well, I certainly couldn't read anything into it other than what was said but it looked as described, removal due to hammering. The part I wasn't sure of was whether there had been any communication and whether it was implied/stated/unclear as to whether this was a temporary or permanent measure.

And as stated, even if Aeva is updated to remove the code, any pre-existing installs won't be updated because mod users are notorious for not updating things.


As for the CLA issue, I would bear it in mind that it is a bit dangerously worded and even though there is a clause at the top which says that SM agrees not to use anything that is against the spirit of the licence and agreement, just be mindful that if it is deemed in the spirit of benefitting SM, it can be done. I'm not saying it will, just that it could. And while you personally might not, others might.

IchBin

  • Posts: 11
Re: So, SMF has declared the cold war...
« Reply #141, on November 2nd, 2011, 01:22 AM »
I've been in communication the minute that I found out about the mod removal during the server down time with Nao via PM here. I wasn't concerned how it looked to anyone but Nao. lol 

Here's the gallery zip too if you need it. Looks like SleePy was able to ban the user agent so the mod page may be available to you now.

📎 Aeva-Media-1.4w.zip - 698.35 kB, downloaded 40 times.


Arantor

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Re: So, SMF has declared the cold war...
« Reply #142, on November 2nd, 2011, 01:25 AM »
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I wasn't concerned how it looked to anyone but Nao. lol
The real question is whether anyone notices and posts about it outside of here. Here, it's something of an old wound, but on sm.org for example I remember the fun last summer when it was removed and people were asking where it went.

But if it's now a user agent ban rather than a full on ban, there's no user backlash from asking where it went, which is better for everyone, really.

IchBin

  • Posts: 11
Re: So, SMF has declared the cold war...
« Reply #143, on November 2nd, 2011, 04:43 AM »
I've added the mod back into the queue and it's still associated with the old support topic too. Should all be good. If you'd still consider updating the mod with at least the change to remove the update check code, it would be greatly appreciated.

Nao

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Re: So, SMF has declared the cold war...
« Reply #144, on November 2nd, 2011, 08:19 AM »
Okay, it's back on so everything's cool, forget about my original post, and sorry guys ;)

Banning the user agent is a much, much better idea. Plus, it can be done from the htaccess I think :)

Yes I'll have a look at updating the mod (silently, no version number changes).

Jorin

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Nao

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Re: So, SMF has declared the cold war...
« Reply #146, on November 2nd, 2011, 01:47 PM »
Well in the end I made more changes than expected... Instead of just disabling the URL fetching, I removed the entire code, like I did for Aeva Media. So I suppose it 'deserves' a version update...
I also updated the sitelist, for youtu.be URLs etc.

Arantor

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Re: So, SMF has declared the cold war...
« Reply #147, on November 2nd, 2011, 01:59 PM »
The sad part is a large proportion of people still won't update, after all as far as they're concerned, it isn't broken. But I guess you've done all you can really do with it...

Nao

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  • Posts: 16,082
Re: So, SMF has declared the cold war...
« Reply #148, on November 2nd, 2011, 02:11 PM »Last edited on November 2nd, 2011, 05:44 PM by Nao
Quote from Arantor on November 2nd, 2011, 01:59 PM
The sad part is a large proportion of people still won't update, after all as far as they're concerned, it isn't broken. But I guess you've done all you can really do with it...
It's not sad, it's logical.
Well, I suppose more people would update if the Aeva fetch process was re-enabled for a couple of days (maybe a week) so that earlier versions could reach the sm site, find the new version and point it out to admins.

Anyway... Here's a candidate for version 7.2 (final).
Please install it and test it (mostly the admin area) if you have a copy of Aeva Lite (and no Aeva Media) lying around on your forum.

Edit -- see below.

Arantor

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Re: So, SMF has declared the cold war...
« Reply #149, on November 2nd, 2011, 02:12 PM »
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It's not sad, it's logical.
Even when there is a version that has bug fixes and so on, people still don't move. That's why there are so many forums still with older 2.0 RCs on them for example (including more than one of mine)