And it long since predates the public area.
Re: Doctor Who
« Reply #360, on January 10th, 2012, 12:13 AM »
Re spoiler... no he didn't. They *both* lied. What he told her was not his real name. TWoRS actually shows you what he said.
Yes, that's the case - it's the first time he meets her, and the last time she sees him. But the point where he tells her his name, the one time he could - we haven't seen that yet. We haven't seen their first meeting (from her POV) at the towers of Darillium, where he gives her his screwdriver.
That wasn't the first time they met was it, from her POV?
She had the screwdriver in the Forest of the Dead/Silence in the Library, but she didn't have it on the Byzantium.
| 1. | This part is still not entirely clear, after watching it more than once. |
Watch Night 3 & 4, it's less than 10 minutes. You'll get your answer for the towers of Darilium. Then read through the timeline I posted :)
It's a bit weaksauce in places. Whereas in the earlier stories, it's been pivotal to everything (that all the events are part of the plot & character development all in one, the plot is basically a vehicle for pushing Moriaty and Holmes together like two titans clashing.
The mid point with the alternate identity... threw me for a loop but it was also the weakest point for me. It's almost as though it was needed for the characters to believe in the whole Holmes-fraud thing, rather than the viewer to get the dramatic irony. A touch overdone but still well presented. The actor who plays Moriarty does it so brilliantly at that point.
Three things about the final confrontation that occur. Firstly, if ever there were any point to demonstrating Cumberbatch's skill at how well he'd be the Doctor, this is it. The showdown and the way he does it... bravo.
Secondly, for not being a Moffat story, it felt like a Moffat ending, in particular the whole 'got too big for his boots' theme that's also in Wedding of River Song struck home for me.
Lastly, while we have to wait for 3x01 to see how the fuck he got out of that one, it was obvious that he was going to, and after watching it, I'm still not sure just how far ahead of Moriarty he actually was, though you're meant to think he's figured *everything* out. He was obviously prepared to jump, but the fact that he jumped without obviously clearing his name... as far as we know? Seemed a leap too far. Holmes is the sort of person I'd have expected to have been recording the entire conversation with Moriarty, even broadcasting it to Lestrade & co, but it seems he didn't. I'm also getting a sense of 'Sherlock lies', much as the Doctor lies >_<, much of the 'too big for his boots' thing again... because you just know that next time, he's going to come back, clear his name and all will be well with the world again.
Also, in the graveside scene, when Watson is shown reflected in the headstone, I was expecting Holmes to stride up behind him etc. because that's the sort of thing Moffat would have done (if only because it's the sort of thing the Doctor does, bah!) and it makes for great tension, but of course he's laying lower than that.
In a way I'd almost have preferred the way Conan Doyle did it originally to have been done here - that he's actually dead and that 3x01 reveals he isn't, rather than the reveal being done here. Though it wasn't as blatant (or, to be fair, amusing) as it was done in A Game of Shadows.
All in all, a very well done episode, weaker in the middle, but IMO better than Baskerville last week. Also note Gatiss' performance here is more human as Mycroft than we normally see of him, it's quite nice in a way.
Yeah, it had a Moffat overtone (quite obviously, even though he didn't write the episode's script, he had his hand on the global story), and made me think of Dr Who but oddly, I'd say that this year's Who was actually inspired by Holmes... In the original Final Problem story, Holmes dies for good, and when Doyle wrote The Empty House, he explained that Holmes had to go into hiding to avoid being spotted by Moriarty's henchmen. So, basically, it's the same as the Doctor faking his own death and then basically acknowledging his death to avoid getting tracked down by the Silence and things like that -- among other reasons. So it's the same here. Holmes faked his death to ensure safety for his friends. He will then track down the hitmen himself, get rid of them, and come back next year. As for how he did it... Well, we never saw Moriarty's body after he died, did we? Maybe he dropped his body... As for how he managed to make him look the same... I have no idea. Or maybe Holmes had an evil twin brother than he used the opportunity to get rid of... :P
I'm more surprised, actually, by the level of madness that Moriarty showed. That he's prepared to kill himself just to 'win' this confrontation is a tad unbelievable. The actor was pretty excellent, like last year.
I'm not, really. Moriarty expressed that he did what he did because it was all a big game, and once he'd beaten Sherlock, what else was there for him to do? When you're at that level of intellect, you're already half way on the train to crazy town anyway... so hardly surprising that he'd be like that.Quote I'm more surprised, actually, by the level of madness that Moriarty showed. That he's prepared to kill himself just to 'win' this confrontation is a tad unbelievable. The actor was pretty excellent, like last year.
Mind you, after the first confrontation in 1x03 it wasn't really surprising that he'd be cuckoo, I mean...
Sherlock: People have died.
Moriarty: That's what people DO! (you can already see he's a bit unhinged in how this comes out)
Moriarty: Sorry... I'm just a bit... changeable!
Sherlock: Catch... you... later.
Moriarty: ... no you won't!
That, and when he's sat in the chair in Baker Street, and espousing how every fairytale needs a good villain, that cheeky little grin he makes is one that bad novelists will insist is 'dancing with insanity'.
So yeah, the insanity aspect is set up long before he pulls that trigger - and remember, in his mind, he's beaten the only man that could have stopped him, and he's not merely beaten him... to him, he has done precisely what he promised he'd do: he's burned Sherlock, the very heart out of him by unravelling everything he stood for.
Once it was announced (rather publicly) that A Game of Shadows featured Moriarty in an active role, it was not surprising that the final scenes would be the battle over the falls.
And, given that it's Hollywoodised, would you really expect anything less?
Though, to be fair, it is done very amusingly. (Heck, I'll be buying the DVD when it comes out.)
This is what good TV drama is about. It gets you pumped as you watch it unfold. DW and Sherlock are the only two dramas I've seen in a while where I've not only become emotionally invested in the characters and spent time picking away at it.
I haven't done that in CSI or NCIS or anything else I've watched in a long time, at least nothing comes to mind where I've done that.
Sounds cool to me, still
Oh -- and I think the Richard Brook story was not meant for the viewer (unless suddenly Moffat decided to go for the easy hollywood-type twists?!), I think it was there to plant the seed of doubt into Watson.
Homeland...? That was a pretty smart show.
And Steins;Gate, by far, but I've already mentioned it too much