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Online Arantor

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I just had a sad thought.
« on January 16th, 03:41 PM »
In an attempt to get back into PHP/Wedge coding, I'm tackling a smallish mod, at least I think it's a smallish mod. Certainly the two different mods on sm.org that do it aren't very big (though I have my own definition of 'big')

Now, both have their own setup code to add DB stuff and file edits and stuff... and I just suddenly realised that no matter how good our plugin manager is, folks coming from SMF are still going to ask how they parse mods to do installs >_<

Even though the very concept doesn't work on any level, it's still going to come up, probably quite a few times, and that makes me sad.


Remember: asking stupid, obsolete questions makes Arantor cry.
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Re: I just had a sad thought.
« Reply #1 on January 16th, 03:53 PM »
Me too. But I'm more optimistic.

I'm at the dentist though right now. Have to be optimistic.
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Re: I just had a sad thought.
« Reply #2 on January 16th, 03:57 PM »
Ban them.
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Online Arantor

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Re: I just had a sad thought.
« Reply #3 on January 16th, 04:00 PM »
Quote from Nao on January 16th, 03:53 PM
Me too. But I'm more optimistic.

I'm at the dentist though right now. Have to be optimistic.
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Quote from Dragooon on January 16th, 03:57 PM
Ban them.
We shouldn't be quite so mean to people who've just begun to see the light and take steps into a bigger, brave, newer world!
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Offline PantsManUK

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Re: I just had a sad thought.
« Reply #4 on January 16th, 04:43 PM »
FAQ entry:-

Q. How do I parse add-ons to facilitate installs?
A. You don't.

Feel free to edit that down if it's a bit too wordy for you...  ^_^
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Online Arantor

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Re: I just had a sad thought.
« Reply #5 on January 16th, 05:16 PM »
If only it would stop there, which sadly it won't.

Q: But what happens if I have to do a manual install?
A: You don't.

Q: But...
A: Look, if you're so desperate to manually install, download the plugin to your computer, unpack the zip, upload it to a new folder inside Plugins/ and just visit the plugin page.

Q: But what about theme edits on my custom themes?
A: The plugin manager can't make custom theme edits. No parsing required.

Q: But what about edits that conflict?
A: The plugin manager can't make file edits. No parsing required.

Q: But isn't that a bit limited?
A: It's the lesser of two evils, you can either have a system that's infinitely flexible and by result, infinitely fragile, or something more strict and more reliable, can't have it both ways.


I've had similar conversations with people, long since became too cynical to assume people were smart any more. Now I assume they're too dumb to tie their own shoelaces until they show me otherwise.
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Re: I just had a sad thought.
« Reply #6 on January 16th, 06:17 PM »
Who are we working for already, officially? :P
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Online Arantor

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Re: I just had a sad thought.
« Reply #7 on January 16th, 06:20 PM »
I built the plugin manager so I'd be able to write my own extensible plugins, and so that I wouldn't have to contend with dealing with the crap that goes with editing files in mods.
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Offline PantsManUK

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Re: I just had a sad thought.
« Reply #8 on January 16th, 06:33 PM »
I think I'm getting the hang of writing hideously sarcastic FAQ entries now...

Q. How do I parse add-ons to facilitate installs?
A. You don't. This isn't SMF and you don't have to fight against add-ons to install them. The Plugin Manager takes care of all that back end file editing poop you had to deal with in SMF.

Q: But what happens if I want to do a manual install?
A: You'll never need to do a manual install. We've spent a lot of time (and blood, sweat and a few tears) making sure that you never have to dirty your hands editing the core to get add-ons installed. Rejoice!

Q: But...
A: Look, if you're so desperate to manually install, download the plugin to your computer, unpack the zip, upload it to a new folder inside Plugins/ and just visit the plugin page, but come on, you *really* don't need to install add-ons by hand any more. It's the 21st century, let the machines look after themselves.

Q: But what about theme edits on my custom themes?
A: The plugin manager can't make custom theme edits, so no parsing required.

Q: But what about edits that conflict?
A: The plugin manager can't make file edits, so no parsing required.

Q: But isn't that a bit limited?
A: Well, yes, but it's the lesser of two evils. You can either have a system that's infinitely flexible and by result, infinitely fragile (SMF), or something with a few rules and regulations that's stable (Wedge). You can't have it both ways.
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Offline MultiformeIngegno

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Re: I just had a sad thought.
« Reply #9 on January 16th, 07:22 PM »
I like these FAQs! :lol:
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Offline Farjo

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Re: I just had a sad thought.
« Reply #10 on January 17th, 08:49 AM »
"Every problem is an opportunity"  :wow:

An opportunity to explain the genius that is Wedge's package manager :)

E.g:

"How do I parse mods / plug-ins to install them?"
Using Wedge you do not need to make code changes. This is because Wedge's Plugin Manager works in a much more advanced way.

Instead of making messy and potentially conflicting code changes, Wedge's php code 'hook points' frequently look to the database for extra code to run.

Plugins therefore do not change the code files - rather they add code to hooks in the the database.

This has the following advantages...
...
...
...
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Offline Farjo

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Re: I just had a sad thought.
« Reply #11 on January 18th, 10:22 AM »
Quote from Arantor on January 16th, 03:41 PM
...no matter how good our plugin manager is, folks coming from SMF are still going to ask how they parse mods to do installs >_<
At the risk of being that person :whistle: can plugins be parsed so that they can be installed via. phpMyAdmin? I know it's a stupid thing to want to do but then it's a stupid thing to want to manually make code changes too :eheh:
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Re: I just had a sad thought.
« Reply #12 on January 18th, 12:41 PM »
So when, exactly, would you want or need to do that? I guess someone could write a parser, it'll probably end up being me.

The only use case I can see is for someone like me who will be reviewing plugins and where it would be useful to see the queries it'll be running - but I don't see why it would be necessary or even that useful otherwise.
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Re: I just had a sad thought.
« Reply #13 on January 18th, 01:06 PM »
Instead of writing silly things like a parser, I think we should focus on finishing v1.0, shouldn't we...? :^^;:
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Re: I just had a sad thought.
« Reply #14 on January 18th, 01:39 PM »
Yup. Like I said, I don't really see the point.
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