So, SMF has declared the cold war...

Nao

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Re: So, I've been asked...
« Reply #75, on April 2nd, 2011, 10:01 AM »
Quote from live627 on April 2nd, 2011, 01:51 AM
Nao and Pete know more of SMF than the SM devs I daresay :whistle:
That's old news. It was already the case long before we started work on Wedge... (Especially for Pete.)

Posted: April 2nd, 2011, 10:00 AM
Quote from texasman1979 on April 2nd, 2011, 12:42 AM
even tho they in europe, that cant not know what american football is!!!  :D
Heard of it, but am I also supposed to know your local teams?

Just like I wouldn't expect you to know about the PSG...

I'm just saying-- the world doesn't revolve around the US (or Texas.)
Re: So, I've been asked...
« Reply #76, on April 2nd, 2011, 10:06 AM »
Quote from Nao/Gilles on April 2nd, 2011, 12:34 AM
We exist in a competitive world, with many other alternative software titles. We will persevere in this arena through quality and respect, not through antagonism and hate. We will be supportive and will not insult, disparage or in any other way tear down other projects, businesses or organizations. ---smf
Posted: April 2nd, 2011, 12:33 AM

Epic fail.
Okay I was on my iPod last night so I couldn't elaborate.

- The SMF team has always been living by its 'core values'.
- They have yet to give proof that they actually made up a rule about competition links BEFORE Pete started putting a link to Wedge in his signature.
- Seriously, they never made such a rule. That's unfair behavior.
- So, everyone's entitled to put the link back into their signatures. If you're unsure, you can always copy and paste the corresponding Core Value, "Friendly Competition".
Putting a link in your signature without any other indication is not a demonstration of hate or antagonism. It's just sharing. The SMF team controls their board. They can dictate what people may have in their signatures, but they can't conflict with their core values -- especially if presented publicly with the evidence.

The day SMF starts violating its core values, can someone tell me -- what exactly are these core values worth? They're just lies. They already violated them for me last year. Will they violate them for every single one of you? Their reputation is at stake.

Arantor

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Re: So, I've been asked...
« Reply #77, on April 2nd, 2011, 02:44 PM »
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- The SMF team has always been living by its 'core values'.
No, they claim to live by them but actually haven't for a long time. The number of times I can show you people breaking them over and over is not even funny - even though after January, everyone on team was asked to electronically sign a document agreeing to uphold them.
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- They have yet to give proof that they actually made up a rule about competition links BEFORE Pete started putting a link to Wedge in his signature.
The only rule I can ever remember being documented on this was to do with the paid adverts they have, that Google ads etc can't be linked to vB or MyBB or whatever and will be blocked. But I've never been told of any rule about it in signatures.
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- Seriously, they never made such a rule. That's unfair behavior.
See above.
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- So, everyone's entitled to put the link back into their signatures. If you're unsure, you can always copy and paste the corresponding Core Value, "Friendly Competition".
Yup.
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Putting a link in your signature without any other indication is not a demonstration of hate or antagonism. It's just sharing. The SMF team controls their board. They can dictate what people may have in their signatures, but they can't conflict with their core values -- especially if presented publicly with the evidence.
Oh, they can, quite easily.
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The day SMF starts violating its core values, can someone tell me -- what exactly are these core values worth?
That day was a long time ago.
Re: So, I've been asked...
« Reply #78, on April 2nd, 2011, 04:40 PM »
You know what though?

As much as I'd like to believe that this could end gracefully, I know full well that it won't unless we take the choice to let it go. And therein's the thing: I've said that Wedge is the direct consequence of their combined failures to get it right, to make it what it could have been and not push out the people who can and will make a difference.

That hasn't changed one iota; Wedge was founded on the rising out of the embers of the fire that both Nao and I had in our hearts for SMF, out of the countless hours we both gave to the SMF ecosystem, out of all the things we saw being done wrong, or not being done to the very best they could.

It was never a battle of politics between us and them - not for one moment. It was a battle of ideologies, of hearts and minds, the bottom line is that we had plans for what SMF could have been, and we were previously prepared to help them make it happen, but our plans are not their plans.

Going our own way was inevitable, sooner or later, whether it was 'forcibly' after the events of last summer that compelled us to do this or not. I mean, had the alternative happened and we became SMF devs, it would only have been after 2.0 anyway that something like Wedge happened, because we'd have disagreed vehemently between what we wanted in 2.1 and what they would have wanted - remember, they take the view, legitimately even if it is somewhat naive, that they are 'only a forum' or 'a forum first and foremost'. That's not our view, that's not where we're going. So in the end it would have come down to us and them, the only difference was in the terms and timing of the split.

There is, much as I don't really want to accept it, a legitimacy to their point: we are still competition, by having signatures, we would be promoting competition on their site, and whether the rule predates this or not, the question you have to ask is whether we'd allow a link to simplemachines.org from a signature here, and I suspect the answer is no.

So, with that in mind, I henceforth ask everyone to remove images and website links from simplemachines.org pointing here. They've made it clear they don't have any issues with people linking to sites powered by phpBB in signatures - and that's right, they're not competing with simplemachines.org, no matter how it looks.

When the time comes, we can follow their example and link to Wedge powered sites in our signatures, just not here specifically - after all, that's not competing with simplemachines.org, is it?

This round is theirs, and legitimately so. But instead of us trying to compete with them directly on their battle ground, let's take the competition to the open market and let the two compete on an absolutely equitable basis, and then see how well it works out for all concerned.
When we unite against a common enemy that attacks our ethos, it nurtures group solidarity. Trolls are sensational, yes, but we keep everyone honest. | Game Memorial

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Nao

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Re: So, I've been asked...
« Reply #81, on April 2nd, 2011, 05:37 PM »
I don't get your point, Pete, and I don't understand what you're suggesting we do.

Also, again there's no word from the SMF team about their so-called rule. And nothing about the core value either.

Arantor

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Re: So, I've been asked...
« Reply #82, on April 2nd, 2011, 05:48 PM »
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I don't get your point, Pete, and I don't understand what you're suggesting we do.
I'm suggesting we stop farting about arguing with them about their apparent rules for signatures, that we stop trying to take the battle to their doorstep, when we can't fight them on their turf. Were the situations reversed, we wouldn't accept a link like that, and they couldn't fight us on our turf under those circumstances.

So, instead of wasting any more time trying to argue the point, let's instead concentrate on making Wedge as awesome as possible, then migrate our sites to it - and then we can link those in our signatures, competing on a level playing field, so people have the choice themselves what they do.

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Nao

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Re: So, I've been asked...
« Reply #84, on April 2nd, 2011, 06:40 PM »
Quote from Arantor on April 2nd, 2011, 05:48 PM
I'm suggesting we stop farting about arguing with them about their apparent rules for signatures, that we stop trying to take the battle to their doorstep, when we can't fight them on their turf. Were the situations reversed, we wouldn't accept a link like that, and they couldn't fight us on our turf under those circumstances.
...Err, I would accept a link like that. I mean, if I let someone from a competing team post 44k tech support messages on my boards, I'd be GRATEFUL for their help, rather than try to prevent them from getting a link in exchange.... Meh!
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So, instead of wasting any more time trying to argue the point, let's instead concentrate on making Wedge as awesome as possible,
We are, already :P
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then migrate our sites to it - and then we can link those in our signatures, competing on a level playing field, so people have the choice themselves what they do.
I'm just waitin' for us to discuss the plans for showing off Wedge. (First feature sets, then screenshots, then demo site, then websites running it internally, etc?)
Re: So, I've been asked...
« Reply #85, on April 2nd, 2011, 06:41 PM »
Quote from Bloc on April 2nd, 2011, 05:59 PM
Next step is transforming Blocweb.(and I don't have any sig at sm.org anymore, so i am either way with not putting anything in sigs there)
You should still be aware that as long as we don't have an import tool ready to go, you can't directly convert your website -- you'll have to rebuild it from scratch. Is that okay with you?

We could help with importing posts, though.

spoogs

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Re: So, I've been asked...
« Reply #86, on April 2nd, 2011, 06:56 PM »
Or make it so smf users must get their themes from a Wedge site ;)
Stick a fork in it SMF

Gary

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Re: So, I've been asked...
« Reply #87, on April 2nd, 2011, 07:14 PM »
Reading this topic has gotten me very tempted to replace my Maggie/Lisa image with a link to this forum. I've made it clear that the team has no right to tell me what I should have in my signature, or to edit themselves without my permission, so much so that Amacythe was actually scared to edit my sig to fix a typo. :P

But I'm just gonna leave it be. Apparently, the team just likes to make rules up as they feel like it.

Nao

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godboko71

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Re: So, I've been asked...
« Reply #89, on April 3rd, 2011, 12:32 PM »
Honestly who cares what they do over there anymore... Well besides when they release 2.0 gold so that wedge can start releasing :-P
Thank you,
Boko