Discussing Elkarte on wedge.org

Nao

  • Dadman with a boy
  • Posts: 16,082
Discussing Elkarte on wedge.org
« on January 19th, 2013, 02:15 PM »
(Sorry about the topic title, I found it irresistible to use it :lol: I'm also not posting this in private boards because I'm not sure who's in our Friends group or not. If you want it to be private, please ask for a Friend badge if you don't already have one, and request for the move to be done.)

So... First time I'm looking at Elkarte's github... There's a lot of activity so I'm not going to do that often... But I find it amusing (also a bit upsetting I'll admit) that in the first page of commits, I found this:

https://github.com/elkarte/Elkarte/commit/babfac398abdb9b49ffb3e1d3d1631585e917ede

This looks a LOT like a fix I made to Wedge in rev 1847, just four days ago...

Code: [Select]
Index: ManageErrors.php
===================================================================
--- ManageErrors.php (revision 1846)
+++ ManageErrors.php (revision 1847)
@@ -659,14 +659,11 @@
 
  // Decode the file and get the line
  $file = realpath(base64_decode($_REQUEST['file']));
- $real_board = realpath($boarddir);
- $real_source = realpath($sourcedir);
+ $line = isset($_REQUEST['line']) ? (int) $_REQUEST['line'] : 0;
  $basename = strtolower(basename($file));
- $ext = strrchr($basename, '.');
- $line = isset($_REQUEST['line']) ? (int) $_REQUEST['line'] : 0;
 
  // Make sure the file we are looking for is one they are allowed to look at
- if ($ext != '.php' || (strpos($file, $real_board) === false || strpos($file, $real_source) === false) || ($basename == 'settings.php' || $basename == 'settings_bak.php') || strpos($file, $cachedir) !== false || !is_readable($file))
+ if (strrchr($basename, '.') != '.php' || $basename == 'settings.php' || $basename == 'settings_bak.php' || (strpos($file, realpath($boarddir)) === false && strpos($file, realpath($sourcedir)) === false) || strpos($file, realpath($cachedir)) !== false || !is_readable($file))
  fatal_lang_error('error_bad_file', true, array(htmlspecialchars($file)));
 
  // Get the min and max lines

As you'll notice, the main change in here is that I fixed the || into &&, just like in the Elkarte commit.

This sounds too coincidental to be true to me. Shouldn't I be the one who gets the thanks, not emanuele?
So...
ema, I have no problems with giving you our alpha versions or whatever, I have absolutely no qualms with you or Elkarte and wish you all the best. I'd just rather be told if you already somehow have access to our SVN without telling. It would make things more comfortable for everyone I think. It's not that I don't think it can be a coincidence -- it's that now this has happened, just a few days after my own fix, this is how I'll remember it, and the harm is already done in my mind, whatever the truth might be. And I don't like this. I don't like being in a situation where I feel uncomfortable about sharing things with other like-minded developers.

If anyone at Elkarte wants to reuse an idea or code block that we wrote, please ask us. We're not ogres. We don't cling to every bit of code that we write like it's our virgin child that we won't give away. Our license is for a general code of conduct and how we want to deal with things generally, but we're flexible on the whole.
Just please don't do this kind of thing behind our back.
Posted: January 19th, 2013, 01:58 PM

Oh, the joys of doing several things at the same time...
I just noticed that the Elkarte commit was made on the exact same day. I haven't checked the times but I suspect it means that I mentioned the exact bug somewhere in this forum, which would explain everything, i.e. that it's neither a coincidence nor a problem.

But did I...? I don't remember. Can someone find my post?

Arantor

  • As powerful as possible, as complex as necessary.
  • Posts: 14,278
Re: Discussing Elkarte on wedge.org
« Reply #1, on January 19th, 2013, 02:18 PM »
I gave emanuele the fix I originally did for Wedge since I still care about SMF... Any changes other than that (e.g. As public discussion) are fair game, no? You did discuss the fix where you pointed out issues in it and IIRC that was public.

They don't have SVN access either.
When we unite against a common enemy that attacks our ethos, it nurtures group solidarity. Trolls are sensational, yes, but we keep everyone honest. | Game Memorial

Nao

  • Dadman with a boy
  • Posts: 16,082
Re: Discussing Elkarte on wedge.org
« Reply #2, on January 19th, 2013, 02:27 PM »
I don't know, I simply couldn't find my post... Maybe I didn't look hard enough. I'm so tired. (IRL stuff...)

Arantor

  • As powerful as possible, as complex as necessary.
  • Posts: 14,278

Nao

  • Dadman with a boy
  • Posts: 16,082
Re: Discussing Elkarte on wedge.org
« Reply #4, on January 19th, 2013, 02:52 PM »
Oh bugger, it was posted on January 13... I stopped looking at my backlog on January 15 since I thought everything happened that day... Lazy me ;)

So, all right then, it was neither a coincidence nor a problem, it was just my old brain playing tricks on me.
To tell you the truth, I even thought that the bug wasn't in SMF 2.0 in the first place... I had to double-check to make sure it was indeed.

Well, then I'll simply demand a thanks to Nao instead of emanuele in that commit log, ah ah! I know logs can be rewritten :niark:

Oh, what do I do with this topic now? :lol:

Private? Delete? Or just leave it around in case we want to discuss Elkarte at all?

Arantor

  • As powerful as possible, as complex as necessary.
  • Posts: 14,278
Re: Discussing Elkarte on wedge.org
« Reply #5, on January 19th, 2013, 02:55 PM »
Really up to you. They seem generally happy doing their own thing - not even jumping into the Elkarte thread on sm.org that was started by the SMF team (and it got some less than enthusiastic responses)

Nao

  • Dadman with a boy
  • Posts: 16,082
Re: Discussing Elkarte on wedge.org
« Reply #6, on January 19th, 2013, 03:35 PM »
Lol...

Well, maybe they prefer to devote more of their time to the software itself!

The first few weeks of a fork are important. It's where you determine how much enthusiasm there is for it. Considering that activity increased a lot after they made the fork, it can be said that they felt their enthusiasm was renewed by the new environment, the new rules.
The later few weeks are more important, though -- the moment when 'things happen' and you start devoting more time to other things. Question is, can you go back to work after that? I've seen EosAlpha pretty much die after nearly a year of activity from Nightwish, mostly I'm afraid because not many people knew about his fork. I've seen Wedge go through a rough patch when you left the project aside for a few months last year and I was unsure whether to keep doing my thing on my side or take over your share of the load. (Thankfully, I only had to endure for some time :))

I have to say, I'm interested in seeing where this will go. I wouldn't use Elkarte, just like I wouldn't use SMF these days, but I'm really interested in seeing what unfolds for SMF:
- new dev team for SMF? If yes, dedicated or not? Hope or despair?
- Elkarte's point "being made", fork turned back into SMF 2.x and work ongoing with same dev team?
- SMF offering us ONE... MILLION... DOLLARS! (insert Dr. Evil laugh here) to turn Wedge into SMF 3.0?
- Or maybe... One... Hundred... BILLION DOLLARS!
- Or something else that I didn't think of?

I have to say, regardless of anyone's merits, I'm quite shamefully addicted to knowing what's going on in the SMF world. Maybe that's why I never go to their forums. I know it could turn out for the worse... ;)

Arantor

  • As powerful as possible, as complex as necessary.
  • Posts: 14,278
Re: Discussing Elkarte on wedge.org
« Reply #7, on January 19th, 2013, 03:40 PM »
I don't know what the future holds for Elkarte, I haven't spoken to most of the people there and to be honest while I get on well enough with most of them, I'd rather stay back and not try and influence them in any particular direction, consciously or otherwise.
Quote
- new dev team for SMF? If yes, dedicated or not? Hope or despair?
Labradoodle >_< They need a new team, soon, and it needs to be already competent before turning up. The key word here is despair.
Quote
- Elkarte's point "being made", fork turned back into SMF 2.x and work ongoing with same dev team?
Given the circumstances as discussed here about its traumatic birth, I'd suggest that that isn't going to happen.
Quote
- SMF offering us ONE... MILLION... DOLLARS! (insert Dr. Evil laugh here) to turn Wedge into SMF 3.0?
Nah. It's not about the money, it's the principle of the thing... they'd never concede proper control of it to us. That much has become abundantly clear.
Quote
I have to say, regardless of anyone's merits, I'm quite shamefully addicted to knowing what's going on in the SMF world.
There's nothing wrong with taking some interest in the ecosystem. It affects us, after all. I think I'm pretty in touch with what's going on, knowing some of the things I do right now.

Dragooon

  • I can code! Really!
  • polygon.com has to be one of the best sites I've seen recently.
  • Posts: 1,841
The way it's meant to be

Arantor

  • As powerful as possible, as complex as necessary.
  • Posts: 14,278

Nao

  • Dadman with a boy
  • Posts: 16,082
Re: Discussing Elkarte on wedge.org
« Reply #10, on January 19th, 2013, 05:55 PM »
Yes i don't trust them to give us the freedom we have with Wedge. Which is why we would refuse it. However, if they were to give us one hundred billion dollars for it, I'm pretty sure we'd be happy to give it away. Heck I'd use my share to buy vBulletin and turn it into something nice :p

Hmmmmmmmm actually there are things that even money and good will can't buy ;)

Arantor

  • As powerful as possible, as complex as necessary.
  • Posts: 14,278
Re: Discussing Elkarte on wedge.org
« Reply #11, on January 19th, 2013, 05:59 PM »
Quote
Heck I'd use my share to buy vBulletin and turn it into something nice
The way vB 5 is shaping up? I'd start with the bin.
Posted: January 19th, 2013, 05:58 PM

Also, I discovered today that I've been pronouncing 'meme' wrong for years. I'd always assumed it was 'me-me' based on the fact that it always seems to be about garnering some attention, thus 'look at me, look at me' -> 'me! me!'

But it's pronounced 'meem' which means I need to find a new phrase because MEEM DEMON doesn't quite roll off the tongue the way ME-ME DEMON does. At least to me.

Nao

  • Dadman with a boy
  • Posts: 16,082
Re: Discussing Elkarte on wedge.org
« Reply #12, on January 19th, 2013, 06:06 PM »
Great minds again. Until last week I thought it was pronounced meme (meh meh). Then I heard someone in a video say the french word for mime. Meem as you say. I think it was in the latest big bang theory.
Posted: January 19th, 2013, 06:05 PM

I typed mémé but android insisted on changing it to meme eh eh...

Arantor

  • As powerful as possible, as complex as necessary.
  • Posts: 14,278
Re: Discussing Elkarte on wedge.org
« Reply #13, on January 19th, 2013, 06:07 PM »
It's even been in Doctor Who (End Of The World, in season 1) with 'Meem'[1] pronunciation and that is the correct form because it's from Greek, mimeme, derivation of 'imitation' regarding an idea.
 1. The Order of the Repeated Meme or something.

Dragooon

  • I can code! Really!
  • polygon.com has to be one of the best sites I've seen recently.
  • Posts: 1,841
Re: Discussing Elkarte on wedge.org
« Reply #14, on January 19th, 2013, 06:09 PM »
Quote from Nao on January 19th, 2013, 06:06 PM
Great minds again. Until last week I thought it was pronounced meme (meh meh). Then I heard someone in a video say the french word for mime. Meem as you say. I think it was in the latest big bang theory.
Posted: January 19th, 2013, 06:05 PM

I typed mémé but android insisted on changing it to meme eh eh...
Same! I also realised from the one of TBBT's episodes that it's pronounced meem and not me-me.