« May I ask a dumb SMF question?
Has SMF Gotten Slower?
Shutdown Functions »

nend

  • When is a theme, no longer what it was when installed?
  • Posts: 165
Has SMF Gotten Slower?
« on May 14th, 2012, 06:33 AM »
Will I was visiting a old forum I have, a 1.1.x branch forum. This forum is packed with tons of data and modifications but for some reason it seems to be outperforming a newly installed 2.0.x branch with light modifications.

It has been a while though since I dabbed into a 1.1.x source code, but what has changed to make SMF 2.0.x slower than its predecessors? Is SMF 2.0.x database layer the source? :whistle:
SI Community

Nao

  • Dadman with a boy
  • Posts: 16,082
Re: Has SMF Gotten Slower?
« Reply #1, on May 14th, 2012, 08:26 AM »
I *don't* think it's any (noticeably) slower...
It's usually the kind of situation where to compare, you must install two stock versions side to side and fill them with random data...
Re: Has SMF Gotten Slower?
« Reply #2, on May 14th, 2012, 09:07 AM »
Perceived performance may be slower because of the increased size of JavaScript and CSS files, btw.
That's why I worked hard on fixing this for Wedge...

Arantor

  • As powerful as possible, as complex as necessary.
  • Posts: 14,278
Re: Has SMF Gotten Slower?
« Reply #3, on May 14th, 2012, 12:05 PM »
The DB layer won't help, certainly. But I consider the trade-off in performance for that component on its own quite acceptable for the actual increase in security it brings (considering third party modifications etc.)

The other major performance headache is post moderation. There's no way around it, it is a performance headache if it is turned on.

For all other situations, you'd need to compare them with as-close-to-identical setup, so any optimisation work you did for 1.x (e.g. turn off calendar, DB tables being InnoDB and appropriate table structure changes to convert from tinytext to varchar) would need to be mirrored in 2.x.

Also if you haven't already, switch the avatars to their own folder.
When we unite against a common enemy that attacks our ethos, it nurtures group solidarity. Trolls are sensational, yes, but we keep everyone honest. | Game Memorial

Nao

  • Dadman with a boy
  • Posts: 16,082
Re: Has SMF Gotten Slower?
« Reply #4, on May 14th, 2012, 12:36 PM »
Quote from Arantor on May 14th, 2012, 12:05 PM
The DB layer won't help, certainly. But I consider the trade-off in performance for that component on its own quite acceptable for the actual increase in security it brings (considering third party modifications etc.)
I'm sure everyone will agree :)
Quote
The other major performance headache is post moderation. There's no way around it, it is a performance headache if it is turned on.
And this is what still makes me unsure how to implement post privacy, i.e. what is basically stalling Wedge the most and caused me to post a call for help in the shape of a haiku... :lol: (Because I'm preeeeetty sure that once we get this done, Wedge is 99% ready for a public alpha...)
Quote
For all other situations, you'd need to compare them with as-close-to-identical setup, so any optimisation work you did for 1.x (e.g. turn off calendar, DB tables being InnoDB and appropriate table structure changes to convert from tinytext to varchar) would need to be mirrored in 2.x.
I'm still sure it's mostly about perceived performance. It's best to test with PageSpeed or YSlow, and of course also enable benchmarking in SMF and check the query logs to see if generation times on the server are pretty much the same or not. If they're similar, then it's a problem with client-side caching, multiple JS/CSS files and so on. (i.e. my domain of choice 8))
Quote
Also if you haven't already, switch the avatars to their own folder.
Here's wondering if we're already doing it by default in Wedge... If not, we probably should :P
Posted: May 14th, 2012, 12:23 PM
Quote from Nao on May 14th, 2012, 12:23 PM
And this is what still makes me unsure how to implement post privacy, i.e. what is basically stalling Wedge the most and caused me to post a call for help in the shape of a haiku... :lol: (Because I'm preeeeetty sure that once we get this done, Wedge is 99% ready for a public alpha...)
Forgot about custom groups... That one is annoying, too: I still don't know if it's realistic to keep having a list of membergroups in the member table, or if we should always join another table.

(Crap... If only I had the balls to say "let's postpone this to a later version" and actually STICK to it and make a converter later...)

live627

  • Should five per cent appear too small / Be thankful I don't take it all / 'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah I'm the taxman
  • Posts: 1,670
Re: Has SMF Gotten Slower?
« Reply #5, on May 15th, 2012, 03:32 AM »
Quote
Here's wondering if we're already doing it by default in Wedge
It's not done by default that I can see.
A confident man keeps quiet.whereas a frightened man keeps talking, hiding his fear.

Arantor

  • As powerful as possible, as complex as necessary.
  • Posts: 14,278
Re: Has SMF Gotten Slower?
« Reply #6, on May 15th, 2012, 03:39 AM »
It's not done by default, and I didn't make the conversion by default (and strip out the rest of the code) because we were looking at putting it all through Aeva for potentially-multiple-avatars-per-member.

Nao

  • Dadman with a boy
  • Posts: 16,082
Re: Has SMF Gotten Slower?
« Reply #7, on May 15th, 2012, 11:40 AM »
Quote from Arantor on May 15th, 2012, 03:39 AM
It's not done by default, and I didn't make the conversion by default (and strip out the rest of the code) because we were looking at putting it all through Aeva for potentially-multiple-avatars-per-member.
Another nail into my coffin, eh... :P
I'm a rock. I'm solid. I won't bow to your petty remarks eheh. It'll be for Wedge 2.0 at the earliest. I don't want to get going on another long period of trial and error, implementing something that we don't even know is going to work better...

(Or maybe I'll just do it in a couple of days when I'm bored at some point. You never know with me...)

Arantor

  • As powerful as possible, as complex as necessary.
  • Posts: 14,278
Re: Has SMF Gotten Slower?
« Reply #8, on May 15th, 2012, 03:34 PM »
It wasn't meant as a dig, subtle or otherwise, it was just covering the reason why we haven't, thus far, done this.

I'm amenable to multi-avatars but it does raise a question... do we store the avatar per post or not? Having different avatars per post allows for doing things that merely having multi-avatars doesn't (and LiveJournal does it, FWIW)

Nao

  • Dadman with a boy
  • Posts: 16,082
Re: Has SMF Gotten Slower?
« Reply #9, on May 15th, 2012, 03:45 PM »
I know LJ does it, and I know it scared the hell out of me when I finally understood what was going on...
And I certainly don't like that too much.

What I'd like, with multiple avatars, would be the ability to set one avatar per board.
For instance, on noisen.com if I'm posting on my anime-related board, I'd like for my avatar to be a Saint Seiya picture. If I'm posting on the AeMe board, I'd like for it to be a more generic avatar... Etc.

Arantor

  • As powerful as possible, as complex as necessary.
  • Posts: 14,278
Re: Has SMF Gotten Slower?
« Reply #10, on May 15th, 2012, 03:56 PM »
Interesting... what do other people think about doing that?

(For the record, I suspect that even if you do make it like that, people are going to want per-post avatars anyway, and even then it's just a toss-up being storing it per post or per board which is complicated if you then move things between boards)

Nao

  • Dadman with a boy
  • Posts: 16,082
Re: Has SMF Gotten Slower?
« Reply #11, on May 15th, 2012, 04:20 PM »
Which is when you start to forget what avatar you wanted for a post, and you delete it, and then the post has to rely on the default avatar, etc... Sometimes, flexibility isn't exactly for the best.

Arantor

  • As powerful as possible, as complex as necessary.
  • Posts: 14,278
Re: Has SMF Gotten Slower?
« Reply #12, on May 15th, 2012, 04:29 PM »
Oh, sure, I just figured that it was a conversation worth having - and you KNOW we'll be asked about it.

Nao

  • Dadman with a boy
  • Posts: 16,082
Re: Has SMF Gotten Slower?
« Reply #13, on May 15th, 2012, 05:37 PM »
There are plenty of conversations worth having... And even more features to implement :P

PantsManUK

  • [me=PantsManUK]would dearly love to dump SMF 1.X at this juncture...[/me]
  • Posts: 174
Re: Has SMF Gotten Slower?
« Reply #14, on May 15th, 2012, 05:37 PM »
I can see mileage in per-board avatars (not that we'd use it), but per-post just seems like total overkill to me.
« What is this thing you hoomans call "Facebook"? »
« May I ask a dumb SMF question?
Shutdown Functions »