Nao

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Re: SMF 2.0 final THIS MONTH?
« Reply #135, on June 2nd, 2011, 01:27 AM »
Yeah, it would definitely have been ready by the end of 2010... I'd probably even have had time to play with SMF 2.1 in a SVN branch, just to kill my urges to make big changes to the trunk, eh eh.

Anyway, what's done is done...

Pete, if I'm not mistaken, SimpleDesk is mainly used by the sm.org website, right...? So, technically, you're working for SMF right? Get out of here now, you filthy spy :niark:

Arantor

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Re: SMF 2.0 final THIS MONTH?
« Reply #136, on June 2nd, 2011, 01:45 AM »
Quote
Pete, if I'm not mistaken, SimpleDesk is mainly used by the sm.org website, right...?
It was originally written for them (which is why the topic/ticket move code even exists, because it was their idea), but virtually everything from after 1.0 is stuff they don't need or want, with the exception of email notifications which they even hacked in for their own site (and 2.0 does so much better anyway). All of which is fine by me, they can use it if they like, or they can ignore it. But I wrote 2.0 mostly for me and some collaborators of mine, and I'm just nice enough to release it to the community, because it was stuff that was on the roadmap anyway, and this way I get it tested by people who aren't me and it gets tested in other peoples' non production environments before I inflict it on a real production environment.


There is a rumour circulating that the second SM project will be to fork SimpleDesk and turn it into SM Helpdesk (especially since I made it very clear last summer that if they wanted to adopt SD as an official project, they'd require another CLA from me because neither the document I electronically signed in the SD team boards, nor the SM CLAs I already signed cover it, and that is just never going to happen)

Them forking it is cool with me, it's under the BSD licence, so they're free to do just that if they like. Except there is no way on hell I'm going to contribute anything to them for it, anything I've done (and anything I would go on to do) goes to the SD project itself not them, and if they want to adopt that into SM, they can have a blast because honestly, I doubt it'll be developed since in the time I wasn't working on it, it was rather sort of inactive. The whole fandango is something of an exercise in how things should be done: I write the code, sometimes it works, sometimes it's buggy, and because no-one else is code reviewing, it leans towards being a bit buggy. But it's actively tested, and when I commit a fix, the testers actually re-test the fixes as well, which means it's confirmed as fixed, or sent back to be fixed again... can you imagine what would happen if this occurred on SM? It would shake things up somewhat.

http://www.simpledesk.net/development/ will attest to that - I was slowing down and left mid July last year, and rejoined mid March this year. And I've spent longer than I ever anticipated on it. But the result is worth it.

Still, if they do fork it, maybe someone will look after it properly, but I won't get my hopes up. (Though if they asked me to take it over, I'd be on the SMHD steering committee and thus have access to some of the sekrit stuff that goes on. Like I'd ever agree to that. Probably sometime after my private key was pried from my cold dead fingers.)
When we unite against a common enemy that attacks our ethos, it nurtures group solidarity. Trolls are sensational, yes, but we keep everyone honest. | Game Memorial

Nao

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Re: SMF 2.0 final THIS MONTH?
« Reply #137, on June 2nd, 2011, 10:12 AM »
Two things:
- 160 commits or so in May...?! My, it's a lot... If only you could put that level of investment into Wedge instead :niark:
- I'd rather see you work on Wedge in any capacity. Not that I have something against SD, but I simply can't understand why you would work on anything that works on SMF at this point. I should think you'd want to port SD to Wedge instead and then work on that... (Plus, you're the main author, so I don't think anyone would see it as a problem that you turn it into a non-forkable version for Wedge!)

Arantor

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Re: SMF 2.0 final THIS MONTH?
« Reply #138, on June 2nd, 2011, 10:20 AM »
Like I said when I first got wrapped up in it back in March, I have... certain obligations to getting it finished with most of the features in 2.0. The features were going to be developed anyway, and whether it was done publicly by me with community involvement, or behind closed doors with much more limited testing... it was still going to be done by me whichever way. So I just chose to take the public route which benefits more people, and honestly, it benefits me too because it means it's tested far better.

Plus it never sat that well with me how I left last summer, with things in a state of disarray and unfinished, and there was an element of my pride involved.

After 2.0 is done, I'm basically dropping development again and getting back to Wedge.

I would also note that a not too small amount of those 160 commits were one line bug fixes and chasing my tail on things that break when I 'fixed' other things.


Tell you what though, if SMF want to fork it for SM, they're fucking welcome to it because I dare them to make changes to it. I swear parts of it work on voodoo and magic spells.

Lex

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Re: SMF 2.0 final THIS MONTH?
« Reply #139, on June 2nd, 2011, 11:01 AM »
Quote from TE on June 1st, 2011, 03:56 PM
Quote from Arantor on June 1st, 2011, 02:04 PM
Yeah, it's the OpenID bug, but as I just pointed out... that ain't new, nor even a surprise - it's been broken since at least RC3 (with the same reason)
This. The OpenID bug is known since RC3... IMHO a "communication problem" within the team, seems nothing has changed since I left for good reasons.
Actually, I believe it is again a "new" bug, a regression - It had been fixed in the past already...

Arantor

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Re: SMF 2.0 final THIS MONTH?
« Reply #140, on June 2nd, 2011, 11:22 AM »
Yes, it's been 'fixed' in the past, but the point of regression for the issue that it seems to be was back in RC3, not recently.

SVN would confirm that, really. The last change to it was back in January, to fix version numbering, but the last non-versioning change was a typo fix back in November that manifested as a bug (separate bug, fixed just after RC4), then a change to it back in September for an optional OpenID 1.1 parameter.

Thing is, I think there's a problem where bugs are 'fixed' but no-one's retesting it to make *sure* it's fixed.

becometa

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Nao

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Re: SMF 2.0 final THIS MONTH?
« Reply #142, on June 3rd, 2011, 03:42 PM »Last edited on June 3rd, 2011, 04:25 PM by Nao/Gilles
Is there an explanation about the bug somewhere, and a test case for reproducing it?

Not that I mind that they're postponing so much (I find it funny unlike most people :P), but seriously, if it's just ONE thing that's keeping them from releasing, I might as well fix it for them... Just so they can determine whether they actually release, or they postpone for another hypocritical reason.

Ah well, they wouldn't apply my fix anything...
The SMF dev team is not known for using fixes provided by anyone that isn't them.
http://dev.simplemachines.org/mantis/view.php?id=4516
It was fixed a year ago and is working perfectly well, as Wedge can testify! :lol:

My conclusion is that none of the SMF dev team knows a thing about JavaScript......... :whistle:

Arantor

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Re: SMF 2.0 final THIS MONTH?
« Reply #143, on June 3rd, 2011, 03:44 PM »
Quote
Is there an explanation about the bug somewhere, and a test case for reproducing it?
Just try using OpenID, it will fail every time.

Oh, and just for shits and giggles, Antechinus has admitted the infamous IE8 jumping textbox bug is 'not a blocker', and that, again, people can reproduce it on sm.org but not on his test site...

snoopy-virtual

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Re: SMF 2.0 final THIS MONTH?
« Reply #144, on June 3rd, 2011, 04:10 PM »
Quote from becometa on June 3rd, 2011, 01:12 PM
Maybe they're basing on the famous Valve time :eheh:
The big difference is I am desperate to play episode 3 but I don't really care when they release 2.0

Mmmmm wait a sec. The sooner they release 2.0 the sooner I can get a Wedge pre-alfa or something similar ain't it?

OK, forget what I said. Valve time and sm.org time ARE the same.

Nao

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Re: SMF 2.0 final THIS MONTH?
« Reply #145, on June 3rd, 2011, 04:27 PM »
Quote from snoopy-virtual on June 3rd, 2011, 04:10 PM
Mmmmm wait a sec. The sooner they release 2.0 the sooner I can get a Wedge pre-alfa or something similar ain't it?
Not really...
The sooner everyone will get screenshots and a demo site, yes. As for distributing an alpha, I don't want to tie our release to any SMF release dates. I've been working on it for 9 months -- the goal has always been to release this summer, although it was even starting to look unlikely that SMF2 would be out by then...

DoctorMalboro

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Re: SMF 2.0 final THIS MONTH?
« Reply #146, on June 3rd, 2011, 04:35 PM »
When you say summer, which month are you talking about? Here summer's in december...

Nao

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Re: SMF 2.0 final THIS MONTH?
« Reply #147, on June 3rd, 2011, 04:41 PM »
Well, sorry for being Northern Hemisphere-centric but I obviously meant Summer as in 'Summer Olympics' :P

Still, we can delay our first release for as long as 4 years and a half, we will still be seen as way faster than the SMF team... :niark:

DoctorMalboro

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Nao

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