Wedge

To quote one of JaZz's posts on the DP team boards:It was not the DP team that wanted to have the posts deleted, he did it all by himself ;)

Wave the white flag of truce. Let's be done with this, or is it too late for a peace treaty? I signed mine off a month ago.

Thanks for interpreting that, Bloc.

Wasn't even talking about you. I was referring to JaZz who by the now-deleted posts seems to misunderstand what a portal is for, which doesn't strike me as a good foundation for developing one.No, just belittling me and telling me you're 'glad to have taught me something', 'not surprised I set up a ranting site', and the comment about you used to listen to what I said but that I'm basically talking rubbish these days. If I tell you something and tell you that I'm glad to have taught you because I thought you knew it already, that IS an insult, however you spin it.

Apparently you don't know the difference between empty and in_array if you think they can do the same job - under some circumstances, they can, but it requires that you set things up right. Most of the time they don't, which means you're faffing about with array_flip and array_keys, which isn't always practical, like I mentioned.There was no confrontation between me and live, 'confrontation' implies that there was a disagreement. I voiced the notion that we could look at its code and see if there was anything useful that could be used, in accordance with the BSD licence, which would mean keeping credits and attribution and copyrights where appropriate. It never got beyond a hypothetical, I never even started looking at DP's code after that point. Then it was relayed back to you guys, and you took umbridge that we were even considering it.No-one's asking you to hunt down these topics. Notice that when you suggested you and I could go through it post by post, I didn't bother to reply, because I knew it would only be wasting my time.

Thing is, I do have responsibilities. I spend my time coding when not performing those responsibilities. Some of my responsibilities ARE coding. And in so doing, I am required to document my code. Thing is, a lot of the time, documentation should be written while the code is written, incorrect documentation is worse than no documentation, so keep it up to date as you change the code. Then it's done, and scores of people that follow you can make use of it.

Interesting point: Chris was the first person to ask me what SimpleDesk's equivalent of an SMF function was. Since I'd already documented it, I was able to point him in the direction of the documentation and not have to get into pointing him to the function and having to answer any questions about what it does.

I was unwilling to help you after it was made clear that DP wasn't interested in what I had to say. A project that thought attaching files to a thread was a good revision system, for example. Well, consider that with revision control you don't only get a log of what's physically changed, but you can denote in the commit note why you changed it - there's documentation right there! Do it as you go along.


Oh, and just in closing, you talked about negativity. Except that you started out here with a negative view because things are now out of their original context. Everything that started in that 3 page argument was because you took a single comment of mine out of context because it disagreed with your view. Who's being negative now?

Agreed.
One of the big issues in documentation world, for coders, is this. "Okay, it took me hours to write these two fucking cool lines of code... If I document them, they'll lose all their magic. It'll made it look like I came up with them in a second."
Of course this is wrong -- but I think sometimes, without the coder's knowledge, the thought is creeping into their mind. I know it did to me, before that. I know there are lots of mojo things in Class-CSS.php that are not documented, and that I should. Describing what a function does is of the utmost importance, but describing what complex lines do is just as important, I think. It's just too bad sometimes I unconsciously ignore these. :^^;:

Anyway. I think the debate is over... JaZz came out as very immature and probably not in a good position to work as a developer on a large project (and, fear not Bloc, not representative of the Norwish people in its entirety. After all, I *am* a big fan of Opera :P). Solomon didn't help either.
I think we can safely say that these two people will have a hard time joining the Friends group here, let alone become coders on Wedge. Apart from that, I wish you the best, guys.

about jazz... he is new to smf and does not know what has been going on. only thing he knew about that portal discussion is that he got treated nice all the way and that is why he does not like the... "sound" the posts made. that is why he acted like he did. so if you see him again, don't judge too fast please ;)

¤dit: I'd say he acted similar to what you, Nao, wrote about your actions due to how your friends got treated.

....He came in, insulted us and then deleted his posts without saying g'bye.
Well, I don't see any reason for him to come back. He made a fool of himself. Apologies, maybe? I couldn't care less, personally...

See, in life you have to make decisions about what you care about. I care about the making of Wedge -- in fact, I care too much about it. I also care about SMF's making up of new rules to prevent us from silently advertising Wedge over there. I don't care about a DP developer who has hormone issues. Simple as that...

I hope so, yes!You jump to conclusions to fast. You dont know him. Actually, you should see him @ the DP site. He is very active, and a great guy. You got an wrong impression from what you have seen here :).Thank you! I wish you the same. I am looking foreward to use wedge!

Ok, I meant it more in the sense of the first definition here:  http://www.thefreedictionary.com/confrontationYou confronted live with what you were planning on doing.  In other words, you had a meeting with him.Actually I was surprised that it seemed that you didn't know that it was possible to use empty() in the same sense as in_array().  And I was honestly glad to have taught you something.  I didn't spin it!  I was actually being truthful on that post.This was not the case for Dream Portal.  I'm a firm believer in documentation, as it only helps.  I had TONS of comments within my code.  All of my coding was heavily commented at almost every OTHER line!  Within MANY of the functions that I coded!  I documented my Module Parameters, and everything else that I was creating within topics on Dream Portal.  You guys expect to much IMO.  Blame the person creating the code because you can't understand it (despite the millions of comments explaining it), and also despite the topics that I had created concerning this.  Furthermore, willing to help anyone understand it at my most valuable time of having difficulty in my life also.  You guys are simply just ranting now!  I try everything to help out, help you understand Dream Portal and it's code, but you guys are just reaching for EXCUSES to try to put the portal down and the team.

Dude the problem I have with you all now is that you seem to talk more and more trash about Dream Portal... and like Nao has cares about Wedge and SMF making rules, I have cares about Dream Portal's image and the fact that you guys are trying to ruin it.  The fact that you here at Wedge go out of your way to try and ruin Dream Portal's image.  The fact that you all jump to the idea of making it a priority to discuss your opinion on Dream Portal's lack of a properly managed team and the source of it is being with the staff (me and ccbtimewiz).That is fine if you want to look at it as a responsibility.  I prefer to look at it more as a HOBBY and a source of FUN!  If you want to be responsible, please stop bashing Dream Portal and/or it's team.Why do you continue to dictate to us on what to do?  This is what I was doing within the code bro.  A lot of almost all code was documented.  When you were on the team as Dev.  much of this was in experimental stages.  That is, the functions where not really complete and we were experimenting with a few ideas and concepts of how to exactly code the Dream Portal layout and it's database.  Ofcourse, I began to implement an idea on this just before you joined the Dev. Team, documented this idea, pointed you to posts of the idea (which I also PM'd you on SMF) and than made myself available to anything you might actually have to say about it.  But when I came back onto the team, I had a better vision of it, after taking a break, and recoded the layouts scheme in a much cleaner approach, along with the database.  Ofcourse, nothing is ever 100% perfect!

Dream Portal is just a portal bro.  We do what we can.  Take it or leave it!  But don't put us down for it!Are you serious?  Insulted you... poor guys.  I think if I had a penny for all of the insults I received from various people maybe I would be a millionaire.  Sticks and stones....

EoM

This is never going to end, is it? Look, this topic began  as a simply innocent request for a good portal, differences in the software were pointed out, then a big why DP was considered for Wedge, then a full-scale flame war on the management principles. It's a downward spiral, this topic. It really is. I think it can't sink any lower without being buried.

Yeah... Technically, we didn't start the flames. I suppose there's too much tension and ego issues (not that it's not understandable) at DP since it only died split recently into two portals...

I say guys, come back and re-read the topic once you're ready. Maybe you'll realize you didn't... react... like you were supposed to.

Anyway, I split the topic right before you posted, John -- funny.

Actually believe it or not, it all began with the members here.  Arantor, Bloc, and Nao all had something negative to say about Dream Portal.  Specifically, it all began with this post by Nao:  http://wedge.org/pub/off/6562/flames-dream-portal/msg257071/#msg257071 If you are going to say these things and open up the topic to such a "downward spiral" as you put it live627, than you shouldn't be surprised if others engage in it.

The only "downward spiral" I see here is the trash that is being talked about on Dream Portal in various posts within this topic.  Feel free to end it anyone?  I don't think you can end something on a positive note when other people keep bringing it up in such a negative way!  If this is allowed, again, you are opening up the discussion for debate.  I did not do this.  This happened when you guys started talking nonsense on Dream Portal, not to mention what were you ever accused of breaking live627??

This had been gone too far and it isn't likely to stop any time soon. No matter what we do, it seem that we cannot reason with each other no matter how hard we tried, this argument will never end, SoLoGHoST.

It ends now, because I'm tired of hearing this crap all over again just over a portal.

+1

You don't get it do you? It's a matter of opinion and perspective, not negative which is why it was a discussion in the first place.