Google Galaxy Nexus
Re: Google Galaxy Nexus
« Reply #15, on October 25th, 2011, 03:44 AM »
Quote from Arantor on October 25th, 2011, 01:58 AM
Hmm, I thought the Galaxy range were Samsung devices? I didn't realise Google built any of their own hardware...
Well just like the Nexus S it was built by Samsung, but Google themselves are distributing it instead of a certain carrier. Which means no Sprint or Verizon crapware on the phone.
Quote from Arantor on October 25th, 2011, 01:58 AM
That's all well and good for things in the main Android market. Unlike iOS where such things are pretty limited by nature and design, there are quite a few Android markets, with varying degrees of policing and quality. I have in particular heard horror stories about Amazon's app marketplace policies.
As have I. I forgot about Amazon's marketplace. I was only thinking of the one that I use for my phone. Ah well, that's the nature of the beast, I guess.
Quote from Arantor on October 25th, 2011, 01:58 AM
If we understand what you're trying to get at, does it matter that the terms aren't necessarily correct? I understand the meaning you're trying to convey, which is enough for me :)
Well that was mainly for those who knew the terms. If I was messing them up then I was hoping that despite that they could still grasp my point.

I'm glad you understood though. :) With long posts my thoughts tend to be scatterbrained.
Quote from Arantor on October 25th, 2011, 01:58 AM
Jobs and co have always been fond of the notion that form follows function, and for the most part that's quite accurate in my experience.
Quote from Arantor on October 25th, 2011, 01:58 AM
On the flip side, there are problems inherent in that model. I don't want to have to go rummage through what's changed potentially every update. Even I as a developer like things to be where I left them, working how I expect them to.

Having more freedom doesn't implicitly demand or expect it to be used.

It's a tough call, and remember that while individual operators can get away with pushing their own variant if they choose, Apple can't because of the precedent it has set itself, of which consistency is amongst those things. Sure, things change between releases but for the most part, things are exactly where I left them, which is much easier on me as a user, and Apple considers the overall user experience pretty highly.
That's true. It's easy for users to jump from version to version without having to understand a new layout, and I have to give Apple credit for that. It's like the saying goes: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." But the problem that I have is that it doesn't evolve much. It just stays the same, at least visually, during all of it's updates.[1] The nature of everything is to eventually change. Software evolves, organizations shift, it's just the way things go. I can't remember where I've read it before but it spoke of how things that were static appear to be dead. While we all know that Apple is very much alive this day and age with all of their iDevices dominating the market, their software seems....inanimate.
 1. Then again I've never used an iProduct aside from a Macbook so I can't really speak for any of the iOS devices. Only what I've seen from Conferences.

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Re: Google Galaxy Nexus
« Reply #16, on October 25th, 2011, 08:25 AM »
The problem with Android, IMO, is for example that people shouldn't care about what processes an app is going to run or modify.. it's a friggin phone! :P
It should be simple. Android is good for many advanced users, but I think it's not for all the people that for example don't want to go around and search for the right firmware to flash on their devices or other things simple for experienced users but difficult (and non sense to do on a phone) for "normal" users.

Arantor

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Re: Google Galaxy Nexus
« Reply #17, on October 25th, 2011, 09:19 AM »
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Well just like the Nexus S it was built by Samsung, but Google themselves are distributing it instead of a certain carrier. Which means no Sprint or Verizon crapware on the phone.
What about Samsung crapware?
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As have I. I forgot about Amazon's marketplace. I was only thinking of the one that I use for my phone. Ah well, that's the nature of the beast, I guess.
And that's one of the better known ones. To a degree it's like the electrical superstores here, you can purchase theoretically the same item from any of them but the support you may get will be variable at best.
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That's true. It's easy for users to jump from version to version without having to understand a new layout, and I have to give Apple credit for that. It's like the saying goes: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." But the problem that I have is that it doesn't evolve much. It just stays the same, at least visually, during all of it's updates.
Part of the reason for apparent lack of evolution is the fact that it still works on older devices too. and partly because they don't see much need to refine it, because if it isn't broken...
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The nature of everything is to eventually change. Software evolves, organizations shift, it's just the way things go. I can't remember where I've read it before but it spoke of how things that were static appear to be dead. While we all know that Apple is very much alive this day and age with all of their iDevices dominating the market, their software seems....inanimate.
As a developer, I have to disagree with that. It's all about the context. Businesses, for example, pretty much depend on software being static, partly because it's about risk evaluation and partly because of the inherent workflow involved in training staff on new software and systems.

OK, piece of history. A few years ago the office I worked for updated all their systems; we'd been bought by a much bigger company, and were integrating our systems into theirs. Until you do a mass migration of 100+ users from Windows 2000 to Windows XP and Office 2000 to Office 2003, you don't really learn to appreciate the importance of things remaining how they were - because your users *will* expect it.

Also, when you're the number 1 'go to' vendor for a given class of device, especially one where your interface is considered pretty much best of breed (and let's face it, that is how iOS is pretty much considered), you do not just change things every release in an attempt to look clean and new.
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Then again I've never used an iProduct aside from a Macbook so I can't really speak for any of the iOS devices. Only what I've seen from Conferences.
I think your opinion isn't incorrect. I don't recall significant shifts in iOS since 4.2.0 when I first got my iPad. That's not to say there weren't changes, but overall the experience has remained consistent, and I like that.
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The problem with Android, IMO, is for example that people shouldn't care about what processes an app is going to run or modify.. it's a friggin phone!
Correct. While I applaud the fact that such things can be done if one is interested in doing them (and easier than on an iPhone, to be fair), the whole point is that the average user shouldn't have to care unless they want to. I do not care what processes my iPad is using unless it's misbehaving (then I want as much information as possible in dealing with it), and I don't see how that's any different to using a phone, if anything it's even more important because an iPad is not quite the completely-on-the-go device that a phone is.
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It should be simple.
To a degree I agree. If you operate any complex device, I'm of the opinion you should learn something about it. The standard car analogy is that you should be able to change a tyre and know when something sounds wrong in it - not that you can strip it down and rebuild the engine, and I don't see why that should be any different with a phone that's essentially a small computer in your pocket.

But on the flip side, most people buy such devices expecting them to 'just work' and in this day and age, that's not unrealistic, and Android doesn't seem to do much from what I've seen to aid this.
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Android is good for many advanced users, but I think it's not for all the people that for example don't want to go around and search for the right firmware to flash on their devices or other things simple for experienced users but difficult (and non sense to do on a phone) for "normal" users
It bears many parallels to its not-entirely-distant-cousin Linux on the desktop. It's not usually that hard to get working and lets you do a variety of under the hood operations, but most people don't care and don't want to have to care, they want it to just work.
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Re: Google Galaxy Nexus
« Reply #18, on October 25th, 2011, 10:11 AM »
It's not a Galaxy phone, it's actually a Nexus phone, they should've named it Nexus Prime TBH. That means the entire hardware is built by Samsung under Google's collaboration and guidelines, and the software is entirely made and maintained by Google. Samsung gets to put nothing on it, the Android you get with it is pure. That's why I'm keen to get this phone.

As far as the whole "Android not being easy" goes, it might be a bit harder than your average iOS but it still manages to be fairly easy and I've seen even the dumbest of the people get how it works. That said, I believe that and fragmentation is something Google is trying to tackle with Android 4, they are trying to unify thing as much as possible starting with entire unification of phones and tablets.
The way it's meant to be

Arantor

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Re: Google Galaxy Nexus
« Reply #19, on October 25th, 2011, 10:22 AM »
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but it still manages to be fairly easy and I've seen even the dumbest of the people get how it works
I suspect your 'dumbest' people are an order of magnitude smarter than some of the technologically illiterate people I know. There are people I know who have trouble operating something straightforward like a several-year-old Nokia... where it hasn't got nearly as many features. (One of them in particular... we both bought a Nokia 3330 about the same time. I was surprised at the relative ease at which things worked, my friend didn't understand it at all, I had to show him multiple times how to make a call[1] or go through his address book[2] and I don't think he ever mastered putting numbers into his address book, given how often I ended up doing it...)
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they are trying to unify thing as much as possible starting with entire unification of phones and tablets.
Yes, that's why the code isn't regularly available right now... only selected partners get it.
 1. Just type the number in and press the green-lit button.
 2. Press down, I think it is, from the front page, to go into the address book.

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Re: Google Galaxy Nexus
« Reply #20, on October 25th, 2011, 10:26 AM »
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I suspect your 'dumbest' people are an order of magnitude smarter than some of the technologically illiterate people I know. There are people I know who have trouble operating something straightforward like a several-year-old Nokia... where it hasn't got nearly as many features. (One of them in particular... we both bought a Nokia 3330 about the same time. I was surprised at the relative ease at which things worked, my friend didn't understand it at all, I had to show him multiple times how to make a call[1] or go through his address book[2] and I don't think he ever mastered putting numbers into his address book, given how often I ended up doing it...)
But then he won't fair any good on iOS, would he?
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Yes, that's why the code isn't regularly available right now... only selected partners get it.
Well the SDK is available and Google has confirmed the source code's release after the Galaxy Nexus is released.

Arantor

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Re: Google Galaxy Nexus
« Reply #21, on October 25th, 2011, 10:31 AM »
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But then he won't fair any good on iOS, would he?
Funnily enough... he took to it pretty well. He got caught up by the marketing for the iPhone 4 and walked into the Vodafone store to try it out and was evidently swayed by the store people because he bought one. I was surprised for a variety of reasons, but he swears it's easier to use than his old Nokia. Though I somehow doubt it'll last as long as our Nokias did - we bought ours in 2002, I only replaced mine early last year, him a bit later in the year.

I don't know how much of it was the marketing folks at Vodafone talking him round, though. He isn't the most mentally agile of people and does tend to be swayed by marketing a lot.
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Well the SDK is available and Google has confirmed the source code's release after the Galaxy Nexus is released.
Yeah, the SDK is available, bit hard to develop apps without one, but I'll bet the source code release isn't going to be as prompt as suspected.

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Re: Google Galaxy Nexus
« Reply #22, on October 25th, 2011, 10:37 AM »
The source code for Gingerbread was released in a week or two after Nexus S' release AFAIK, we can only hope. I know Android is in a bit of mess right now but if ICS is any indication, it's in the right direction. It's trying to fight fragmentation and to be honest the interface is also being made simpler. I personally can't wait for it, hopefully it turns out well worth those 700-800$ I'm about to blow.

Arantor

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Re: Google Galaxy Nexus
« Reply #23, on October 25th, 2011, 10:42 AM »
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The source code for Gingerbread was released in a week or two after Nexus S' release AFAIK
And Honeycomb? I can't seem to find a release date or source for the release other than a bunch of stories about how Google decided not to release it.

Fighting fragmentation is what Android needs to concentrate on now. It's the most used mobile OS[1] and while it has that penetration, it's suffering for it right now.
 1. Though I don't think it's entirely that way because it's best of breed. I think it's more the fact that it's "freely" available and means phone devs don't have to worry about developing their own OS and kickstarting a dev culture around it which is where MS and RIM are right now. Oh, and the fact that almost every manufacturer is using it, so while the numbers do support it being more widely used, it's spread across over a hundred different phone models.

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Re: Google Galaxy Nexus
« Reply #24, on October 25th, 2011, 10:45 AM »
Honeycomb was shanked, but this time it is confirmed that it's coming. TBH if they pull off another one of those Google is gonna get it big time.

Re: Google Galaxy Nexus
« Reply #25, on October 25th, 2011, 06:21 PM »
Quote from Arantor on October 25th, 2011, 09:19 AM
As a developer, I have to disagree with that. It's all about the context. Businesses, for example, pretty much depend on software being static, partly because it's about risk evaluation and partly because of the inherent workflow involved in training staff on new software and systems.
Then I guess that's where our divide is in all of this. I'm seeing this from a standard user point-of-view while you're seeing it from a more real-world view. The two aren't entirely separate, but it's two sides of venn-diagram.

I agree that changes to business software are a pain in the arse. At my job the point-of-sale software that we used was updated and a lot of us hated it because of how they changed the layout (some of still do, actually). You also get into the brouhaha of having to learn the ins-and-outs of the new system to get your productivity to the way it was before.

But while I can see iOS being used in business setting where things need to "just work", I don't feel that Android is made for that same market where they can't afford to change that much.


It's like they say: Different strokes for different folks. I'm glad at least that we have the option to choose which mobile OS we can use. :)
Quote from Dragooon on October 25th, 2011, 10:37 AM
The source code for Gingerbread was released in a week or two after Nexus S' release AFAIK, we can only hope. I know Android is in a bit of mess right now but if ICS is any indication, it's in the right direction. It's trying to fight fragmentation and to be honest the interface is also being made simpler. I personally can't wait for it, hopefully it turns out well worth those 700-800$ I'm about to blow.
I'm curious to hear what you think! How come you're getting it off-contract though?

Arantor

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Re: Google Galaxy Nexus
« Reply #26, on October 25th, 2011, 06:28 PM »
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I'm seeing this from a standard user point-of-view while you're seeing it from a more real-world view. The two aren't entirely separate, but it's two sides of venn-diagram.
All my users were regular users, so I had to learn to see their point of view ;)
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You also get into the brouhaha of having to learn the ins-and-outs of the new system to get your productivity to the way it was before.
That's exactly the same with OS updates or any other kind of system update, and would apply equally to Android ;)

It doesn't change with the context, whether it's a business desktop and business app or a personal mobile and personal app - if it's fundamentally different, you have to lose some time in relearning where things are.

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Re: Google Galaxy Nexus
« Reply #27, on October 25th, 2011, 06:38 PM »
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I'm curious to hear what you think! How come you're getting it off-contract though?
I'm in India, we don't have contracts here. Heck, I have to import it from UK or US.

Re: Google Galaxy Nexus
« Reply #28, on October 25th, 2011, 06:56 PM »
Quote from Arantor on October 25th, 2011, 06:28 PM
That's exactly the same with OS updates or any other kind of system update, and would apply equally to Android ;)

It doesn't change with the context, whether it's a business desktop and business app or a personal mobile and personal app - if it's fundamentally different, you have to lose some time in relearning where things are.
Alright, I'll concede to that. Fair point. :P

I guess my points were mainly in terms of my personal interests than of other users.
Quote from Dragooon on October 25th, 2011, 06:38 PM
I'm in India, we don't have contracts here. Heck, I have to import it from UK or US.
I see. :) Ah shit, then the phone is going to be even more due to shipping.

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Re: Google Galaxy Nexus
« Reply #29, on October 25th, 2011, 07:33 PM »
Quote from Cassiel on October 25th, 2011, 06:56 PM
Quote from Dragooon on October 25th, 2011, 06:38 PM
I'm in India, we don't have contracts here. Heck, I have to import it from UK or US.
I see. :) Ah shit, then the phone is going to be even more due to shipping.
Yeah, and the import duty. Which I'm not sure if it's 0%, 4%, 14% or 25%.

P.S : A video in some language I don't know,  but it has about 20 minutes of hands on with the phone : Samsung Galaxy Nexus - recensione CellulareMagazine.it