An Ultimate Forum

nhwd

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An Ultimate Forum
« on September 14th, 2011, 03:47 AM »Last edited on September 14th, 2011, 08:16 AM by nhwd
So I've read around here and been here since the almost beginning (noisen). I have seen and understand the not so friendly relationship with this project's devs and SMF. However, I really think if everybody worked hard together (SMF,  Wedge, and Femshep[1]) that you guys can create the ultimate forum software that will blow competitors (free and paid) out of the water.

I know it would be a big challenge for EVERYBODY[2], I really do acknowledge that but with differences aside and hard work... It's a possibility. It's a chance for evolution[3] that everybody wants (leaders and the public alike).

A better software that nobody saw coming and can't be compared with... This is just my dream. I'm not sure this can even happen but it would be a great change that i would support 100%.

I'm not demanding that this is something that Arantor and Nao consider, but I would be glad if they read this which expresses my feelings.

Unity causes great things to happen... just saying.  :eheh: :cool:
 1. Who I think is Nightwish on here and is creating another fork.
 2. And I mean EVERYBODY.
 3. Which is Wedge's purpose isn't it?
Wedge Fan

live627

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Re: An Ultimate Forum
« Reply #1, on September 14th, 2011, 05:33 AM »
Woah, woah, woah. So you're suggesting that England and America reunite? Hahaha. No, you never asked for that, but it's some comparison.

In short, not a chance in the universe.
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Dismal Shadow

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nhwd

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Re: An Ultimate Forum
« Reply #3, on September 14th, 2011, 05:47 AM »
Quote from live627 on September 14th, 2011, 05:33 AM
Woah, woah, woah. So you're suggesting that England and America reunite? Hahaha. No, you never asked for that, but it's some comparison.

In short, not a chance in the universe.
You really think so?
I do too but there's a small doubt I have in the back of my head. :eheh:

Dismal Shadow

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nhwd

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Nao

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Re: An Ultimate Forum
« Reply #6, on September 14th, 2011, 07:44 AM »
Nightwish is not Femshep. Femshep's fork is just wind for now, just wishful thinking. While nightwish's is very existent. Perhaps even more than Wedge since at least the source code is available.

I couldn't work with Nightwish unless he learned to write stricter code. But I admire his consistency. After a month an a half he only took a few days off, like me. Who can sustain that kind of involvement for a long time?
As for Fem, if it's who I think, the fork is going to stay wishful thinking or at best, a beautiful new theme.

SMF. Why exactly would we work with their developers? They no longer have developers. They haven't had ANY activity in two months. Why work with them? The future is in the forks. Wedge and Miranda at the forefront.
Posted: September 14th, 2011, 07:37 AM

Btw my name is not Pete, so thumbs up for your reading commitment on this forum. It's not like I posted 7000 times on it eh. Next time make sure you know the guys at least a bit before you ask them to work for the betterment of the world (for free of course.)

nhwd

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Re: An Ultimate Forum
« Reply #7, on September 14th, 2011, 08:14 AM »
Quote from Nao on September 14th, 2011, 07:44 AM
Nightwish is not Femshep. Femshep's fork is just wind for now, just wishful thinking. While nightwish's is very existent. Perhaps even more than Wedge since at least the source code is available.

I couldn't work with Nightwish unless he learned to write stricter code. But I admire his consistency. After a month an a half he only took a few days off, like me. Who can sustain that kind of involvement for a long time?
As for Fem, if it's who I think, the fork is going to stay wishful thinking or at best, a beautiful new theme.

SMF. Why exactly would we work with their developers? They no longer have developers. They haven't had ANY activity in two months. Why work with them? The future is in the forks. Wedge and Miranda at the forefront.
Posted: September 14th, 2011, 07:37 AM

Btw my name is not Pete, so thumbs up for your reading commitment on this forum. It's not like I posted 7000 times on it eh. Next time make sure you know the guys at least a bit before you ask them to work for the betterment of the world (for free of course.)
Whoops I confused myself and forgot that Arantor is Peter... Sorry about that Nao I was typing in a hurry. Oh yeah, that's right Nightwish and Femshep are two different forks I got them mixed up.
Listen, I didn't mean to piss you off. It's just that I have been a follower of SMF for over 4 years now and I have always thought it could be better. Now that you and Arantor are making it better, I thought why can't both scripts be better. I'm not saying Wedge could be better (because of course I don't know) but it could be superior script if different people and ideas went into it (doesn't necessarily have to be the SMF team).

I appreciate the work you guys are doing that's why I visit almost everyday because I wanna see Wedge succeed. I'd love to help if I could but I don't know much about coding which is why I post ideas for features sometimes.

Just keep up the good work because I know it will be a beauty and I'm patiently waiting.

live627

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Re: An Ultimate Forum
« Reply #8, on September 14th, 2011, 08:36 AM »
Quote
if different people and ideas went into it
That's      what's being done? Two people but ideas from more than that.

mforum

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Re: An Ultimate Forum
« Reply #9, on September 14th, 2011, 09:08 AM »
Quote from nhwd on September 14th, 2011, 08:14 AM
It's just that I have been a follower of SMF for over 4 years now and I have always thought it could be better. Now that you and Arantor are making it better, I thought why can't both scripts be better. I'm not saying Wedge could be better (because of course I don't know) but it could be superior script if different people and ideas went into it (doesn't necessarily have to be the SMF team).
i have the impression that wedge would be something different ....
and better of cause !!!  :)

Nao

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Re: An Ultimate Forum
« Reply #10, on September 14th, 2011, 09:17 AM »
Quote from nhwd on September 14th, 2011, 08:14 AM
Listen, I didn't mean to piss you off. It's just that I have been a follower of SMF for over 4 years now and I have always thought it could be better.
I think everyone did... :eheh:
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Now that you and Arantor are making it better, I thought why can't both scripts be better. I'm not saying Wedge could be better (because of course I don't know)
Yes, Wedge could be better, but to be better it simply needs time. We will consider taking new developers with us once version 1.0 is out. I don't like seeing myself as an overseer, but ultimately that's already what I've been doing with my own work.
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but it could be superior script if different people and ideas went into it (doesn't necessarily have to be the SMF team).
I certainly wouldn't mind working with other developers like Dragooon, live627, Nightwish and others in the future, if they so wish of course, but first we want to finish that first version by ourselves. :)
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I appreciate the work you guys are doing that's why I visit almost everyday because I wanna see Wedge succeed. I'd love to help if I could but I don't know much about coding which is why I post ideas for features sometimes.
Feature ideas are always welcome, but right now we have huge to-do lists for big features, so we'll only consider small additions that can easily be squeezed between two major updates.
Quote
Just keep up the good work because I know it will be a beauty and I'm patiently waiting.
I'm sure there'll be a sizable share of users who're disappointed with the final results, but it's bound to happen for any project anyway. There are always naysayers, I'm trying to be more philosophical about them :p

Nightwish

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Re: An Ultimate Forum
« Reply #11, on September 14th, 2011, 10:15 AM »
Quote from nhwd on September 14th, 2011, 03:47 AM
So I've read around here and been here since the almost beginning (noisen). I have seen and understand the not so friendly relationship with this project's devs and SMF. However, I really think if everybody worked hard together (SMF,  Wedge, and Femshep[1]) that you guys can create the ultimate forum software that will blow competitors (free and paid) out of the water.
 1. Who I think is Nightwish on here and is creating another fork.
Well, you're wrong. I'm not Femshep and unlike him, I have not posted a five miles long feature list (which undoubtedly has some nice items on it, but will keep him busy for many months if not years) on the official forum. In fact, I've posted nothing about my fork on the official forum, simply because I believe that it doesn't make much sense at the moment.

Also, some comments on the official fork discussion forum make me believe it would be very hard to spawn a fruitful and constructive discussion about the implementation of new features or other radical changes. The general mind set seems to still be very conservative over there :)

As for re-uniting. I don't think so, really. Officially, SMF is now open source, but behind the scene, I still see a lack of commitment to the actual open source *spirit*. There is still no public repository, still no way to submit bug reports or RFEs on the bug tracker and a general lack of "openness".

In fact, before I started my own fork, I did, for a short while, consider to approach them officially with some of my ideas. Reading through the forums (especially the feature request part of it), I quickly realized that such a step wouldn't make much sense at all. Being a nobody to them, I didn't see much chance to get something done there. That's the point where you consequently fork the code and just go for it instead of wasting your time for arguing.

And just for the record: The ultimate forum is not going to happen, ever. Just like there is no ultimate operating system, no ultimate programming language and no ultimate woman on this world.
Every program has at least one bug and can be shortened by at least one instruction -- from which, by induction, one can deduce that every program can be reduced to a single instruction that doesn't work.
My SMF-based forum fork

Nao

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Re: An Ultimate Forum
« Reply #12, on September 14th, 2011, 10:43 AM »
I have a feeling that the SMF team will eventually invite you to join their developer team, consider the lack of team thereof. Is that something you'd do? You don't seem to put much emphasis on your individuality (e.g. no name for your fork, no credit to yourself AFAIK...), is this because you'd rather work on the official codebase?
What would you do if they took your fork and reused it as SMF 2.1, for instance?

Nightwish

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Re: An Ultimate Forum
« Reply #13, on September 14th, 2011, 11:15 AM »
Quote from Nao on September 14th, 2011, 10:43 AM
I have a feeling that the SMF team will eventually invite you to join their developer team, consider the lack of team thereof. Is that something you'd do?
Definitely: No. Not because I don't like them or because I have some agenda - I don't, but I prefer to work freely and without any constraints and politics.
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You don't seem to put much emphasis on your individuality (e.g. no name for your fork, no credit to yourself AFAIK...), is this because you'd rather work on the official codebase?
Nope, it's because I've not yet put much thought into a name or a logo. I do, however, plan to find a name when I get closer to a possibly releasable product but this is something which is not going to happen in the near future.
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What would you do if they took your fork and reused it as SMF 2.1, for instance?
While I don't think that will happen, because I've already wiped a lot of things of which I believe, they would rather want to keep it in official SMF, let's just assume it happens.

Well, then it happens :) That's open source. From that point of view, I can understand why you have (not yet) a public repository, but I have chosen the fully open way and I'm aware of the possible side effects. If you work on BSD licensed code, you should always be prepared for such things. In theory, one could take the code, turn it into a commercial product and earn a lot of money without ever giving you back a single cent. Unlikely? Sure, but still possible.

Basically, I'm doing it for fun.

Arantor

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Re: An Ultimate Forum
« Reply #14, on September 14th, 2011, 12:36 PM »
There is no chance that this will ever happen, and one very good reason why it *shouldn't* happen even if it theoretically could.

While from the outside it no doubt sounds like it would be the ultimate dream team, the simple fact is that all parties concerned have different goals and wouldn't work that well because they'd all be trying to do different things.

SMF is conservative in its approach. It's not a criticism, but an observation: they want to release a piece of software that is in their own words "just a forum". They don't want one that has social features particularly, nor a gallery, nor half the stuff that we have or are planning to implement in Wedge.

Have the SMF team even announced what 2.1 is going to be? Last I heard, the *official team response* was that it was in the very early stages, which means none of the 2.0 bugs are going to be fixed any time soon and that whatever 2.1 is, no-one actually knows. That's not an environment that would suit us very well.
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