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Permanent sidebar
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Nao

  • Dadman with a boy
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Permanent sidebar
« on May 7th, 2011, 01:04 PM »Last edited on September 11th, 2011, 06:58 PM by Nao
Feature: Permanent sidebar
Developer: Nao
Target: users, modders, themers
Status: 100% (complete; might need to add features in the future.)
Comment:

This is one of our most controversial moves. Well, maybe not, but at least one that could be questioned.
Basically, Wedge now always shows a sidebar on the page, and moves it to the bottom if the page is too narrow. It systematically shows your user box (hello user, date, avatar, unread posts, unread replies) at the top, and RSS links at the bottom, and then adds contextual data based on the current page. Calendar pages show day links in the sidebar. Media item pages may show item details in the sidebar (although they'll usually use their own additional sidebar.) Dropdown menus may be moved to the sidebar... Things like that.

In addition, modders can easily add any kind of block to the sidebar by calling loadBlock('my_block_function', ':side'). The same can be done with the top template, which is a series of blocks (sub-templates) that are called before the main template is actually shown, allowing you to add important information at the top without reorganizing everything.
Re: Permanent sidebar
« Reply #17, on May 9th, 2011, 11:58 AM »
Yeah, because SimpleDesk's is massively complicated. Let me explain why:

* Fields can be attached to tickets and/or replies, or both.
* Fields that are attached to tickets can be displayed on the left under the ticket information, just above the replies, or as a prefix to the ticket title.
* Fields can be configured to be visible and editable by user/staff/admin (by role), so you can have fields that are hidden from regular users but visible to staff and editable only by admins, for example.
* Changes to custom fields are logged in the action log.
* Text, large text, integer, floating point number, select/dropdown, radio buttons, checkboxes and multi-select are supported (multi-select is not finished yet)
* This all needs to support being moved from ticket to topic, that's not implemented yet.
* Fields can be configured separately per department (analogous to per-board settings, yes SD has department support now)

It really isn't pretty. Implementing that in Wedge, well we'd do it more simply because the needs are physically simpler (the visibility and logging complexity can be streamlined or even removed, as can a few other things)

(Did I mention that SimpleDesk 2.0 is a monster, that's grown 5k lines of code since just mid March?)
Re: Permanent sidebar
« Reply #18, on October 27th, 2012, 06:52 PM »
interesting. its certainly effective, and solves some big critisisms of smf. Like the ease in which it drops to the bottom on more narrow screens, tablets etc. My only decision would were i put those lovely google ads i depend on to cover my server costs. :D

dwc

Re: Permanent sidebar
« Reply #19, on January 6th, 2013, 08:33 AM »
Wait.... sidebars are/will be permanent???

dwc

Re: Permanent sidebar
« Reply #21, on January 6th, 2013, 09:29 AM »
Damn.  This is a huge disappointment and a case in point why coders shouldn't make design decisions.  We tried to place a sidebar on our forum and we had a revolt.  I'm not going to be able to port to Wedge.  Dammit dammit dammit.
Re: Permanent sidebar
« Reply #22, on January 6th, 2013, 09:52 AM »
Lulz. You realize it's free software right?

The only problem with sidebars is when you reduce the window width.
Try it with Wedge. It just works.

dwc

Re: Permanent sidebar
« Reply #23, on January 6th, 2013, 09:56 AM »
We have a lot of older members who want the width of their display, so sidebar is a nogo.  Also, it makes no sense to have a sidebar if you have a few items because it's empty when you scroll down.

yes, I know it's free.
Re: Permanent sidebar
« Reply #24, on January 6th, 2013, 10:10 AM »
I am posting on an ipad I like weaving better then wireless, the sidebar falls to the bottom of the page. On my secondary computer on my TV I zoom in and the sidebar goes to the bottom of the page. My main computer the sidebar is on the side, and thank goodness for that because if the post was full width readability would be horrid. Heck with a custom theme you just move the positson of the sidebar.

Oh and haha to coders shouldn't make design decisions that is funny :) Thank you for the laugh.

dwc

Re: Permanent sidebar
« Reply #25, on January 6th, 2013, 10:21 AM »
How is reading the width of the display bad readability?
Re: Permanent sidebar
« Reply #27, on January 6th, 2013, 12:47 PM »
Quote from dwc on January 6th, 2013, 09:56 AM
We have a lot of older members who want the width of their display, so sidebar is a nogo.  Also, it makes no sense to have a sidebar if you have a few items because it's empty when you scroll down.

yes, I know it's free.
That's their problem.
Nowadays, new monitors tend to be 23'' or more, with full HD resolutions or better. Early websites were built with a 800x600 resolution in mind, and for many, many years, webmasters would keep it readable in 800x600 even with higher resolutions around. Then mobile browsing was born, and with it the need to be even more readable in very low resolutions (e.g. even if your mobile phone has a HD resolution like mine, on a non-optimized page text is really not readable without zooming, so you need to take care of that).

Thus, the solution I chose for Wedge:
- Ensuring that at very wide resolutions, we don't get a totally different experience, and yet make use of the extra space. This is accomplished by adding a sidebar.
- Ensuring that very narrow resolutions look good, This is done by dynamically moving the sidebar to the bottom of the screen when the 'declared' resolution is below 1024x768 (or including it, I'm not sure anymore).

Do you see many people complaining that Facebook has TWO sidebars...? I've never seen anyone ask for them to remove even one...!
Just because other forums don't have a sidebar by default doesn't mean we should do the same. I'm the one who pushed for Wedge's sidebar to be not only default, but also non-removable (i.e. at best it's moved to the bottom and reflowed.)
I guess someone could write a plugin to get rid of the sidebar. But what's the point. You just lose information.
You're free to whip up a quick custom skin that moves sidebars to the bottom permanently. It's really easy to do. It's just not recommended.

@godboko, I don't understand your problem with Wireless...? That skin is pretty much the same as Weaving, the only different is that it enables Mobile mode, i.e. sets a meta viewport to tell the browser the ideal starting dimensions.

dwc

Re: Permanent sidebar
« Reply #28, on January 6th, 2013, 01:36 PM »
Quote from Dragooon on January 6th, 2013, 11:07 AM
Depends upon the width, I have 24" monitors and it gets ridiculous.
I do as well, but I can adjust.  Older members without 24" displays can't/don't/won't.
Re: Permanent sidebar
« Reply #29, on January 6th, 2013, 02:01 PM »
Quote from Nao on January 6th, 2013, 12:47 PM
That's their problem.
Nowadays, new monitors tend to be 23'' or more, with full HD resolutions or better. Early websites were built with a 800x600 resolution in mind, and for many, many years, webmasters would keep it readable in 800x600 even with higher resolutions around. Then mobile browsing was born, and with it the need to be even more readable in very low resolutions (e.g. even if your mobile phone has a HD resolution like mine, on a non-optimized page text is really not readable without zooming, so you need to take care of that).
I have 15", 17", and 24" laptops, and I can read and view our forum just fine -- and yes, the site should be responsive, but configurable by admin's choice.
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Thus, the solution I chose for Wedge:
It isn't.
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- Ensuring that at very wide resolutions, we don't get a totally different experience, and yet make use of the extra space. This is accomplished by adding a sidebar.
I appreciate you trying to save users from their display, but if they don't want a sidebar, they shouldn't be forced to have one.  The choice is that simple.  I personally like a sidebar, but many of our users don't.  We have EzPortal on our forum because I wanted to put some boxes at the side.  I had a mutiny on my hands, and had to figure out how to place stuff horizontally.
Quote
- Ensuring that very narrow resolutions look good, This is done by dynamically moving the sidebar to the bottom of the screen when the 'declared' resolution is below 1024x768 (or including it, I'm not sure anymore).
That's because it's what you (and many, like myself) like.  However, you shouldn't mandate users to the way YOU (or I) should do things. We don't even want any extra stuff that would require a sidebar.
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Do you see many people complaining that Facebook has TWO sidebars...? I've never seen anyone ask for them to remove even one...!
I hate Facebook, and finally cancelled my account because of their hideous UI.  I couldn't figure out how to do anything.  Last time I read, they allowed coders to make UI/UX changes, which explains their crappy UI.
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Just because other forums don't have a sidebar by default doesn't mean we should do the same.
And it doesn't mean you mandate everyone not to do the same.  Be a nice forum -- give the people freedom and choice.
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I'm the one who pushed for Wedge's sidebar to be not only default, but also non-removable (i.e. at best it's moved to the bottom and reflowed.)
I already printed out your Avatar pic and taped it on my dartboard.
Quote
I guess someone could write a plugin to get rid of the sidebar. But what's the point. You just lose information.
You're free to whip up a quick custom skin that moves sidebars to the bottom permanently. It's really easy to do. It's just not recommended.
Maybe I don't want all your options that you feel I should be forced to have that require a sidebar.  The forum body is plenty.
Re: Permanent sidebar
« Reply #30, on January 6th, 2013, 04:16 PM »
Wait till you try it on a Retina iPad. That's even more surreal because it doesn't use full width of the screen AND has the sidebar.

Gotta say, your enthusiasm will be missed, but don't let the door hit you on the way out. We happen to like how it works and don't really want to change that. As for "providing choice" every choice slows it down.
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