Y'know, I started something similar for Protendo, renaming and changing that is..but it was too much work lol.
Yeah uh?
;)But it's just a matter of taking the time to do it, and try to do it portion by portion, even if it means breaking everything for a while.
My original restructuring helped me see what should be done, and in what order, for a better result. Not that I'm going to achieve it this time, but... I'll do my best.
But, I have actually made folders = name, same as you have done. Also, Protendo just reads all theme folders at startup, then check if its installed and show the thumbs so one can see what theme it is easily. Those that are not installed will have a install checkbox.
See, themes need an ID, which is silly. There's not much of a need for that, except, maybe, for theme-specific options. I believe it's just simpler to get rid of these, and expect skins to simply hide things they don't want through CSS, and the extra HTML that doesn't show up... Well, the user can still force it to show up, through a custom local CSS file, but that's only for Opera and Firefox diehards...
:lol:You are right - themes are a real confusing feature in SMF, even if I spent most of my time with them, I still have lots of things I want to change internally.
Back in 2007, I was mostly a 'theme tweaker', that's how I learned to work with SMF, and I found it overwhelming. I appreciated that I could have my own theme folder, but that meant giving up on SMF updates, so it was a complicated relationship. Wedge skins are designed so that you don't HAVE to include an index template and redo everything. Well, I don't think SMF themes require an index template either, but anyway, all of the officially shipped themes are an index template, so it was confusing. Wedge will ship with just CSS files, and no custom templates. But to replace a template, you'll be able to simply add a 'templates' folder to your skin, and move any template file there. CSS files, though, need to remain in the root of the skin folder, because it's where the main attention is, really. For now.
:PIt just shows that the theme feature was a highpoint from Unknown - but less attention have been given to it since(internally that is).
Certainly.
On another note: I have installed and tried out Wedge latest. I have to be honest though, its quite another way to work for me.
Yes, it sure is. But you can start by redoing templates (well... Once I get started on importing the ton of code I wrote yesterday for my restructured version), and then see where you get from there.
I am not sure where the border between whats user-adjustable, whats auto-generated and whats left to a themer in the skins/themes code.
It's designed not to have a clear border...
:PAuto-generated content, there's not much... A few callbacks in Subs-Cache (smileys, language flags, admin icons), and I think that's all. No more than 3 or 4 items.
Of course, the skins and its css..but the skeleton, if you change that in a theme, what are the chances it will not be changed by a plugin or the core..or the user?
There's always a chance, of course, but it's why I implemented a concept of priority. i.e., skeletons get to dictate the 'original' layout of blocks. Then, skins can also rewrite these with skeleton operations (see Subs-Cache, or just the Warm folder for a full documentation on all skin features -- it's the only thing that's thoroughly documented so far, so use and abuse it!), then plugins can also rewrite through the skeleton API (wetem::my_operation), and this is where it gets fun: either the plugin absolutely needs to do something in a certain place, and it says so (in which case, if the layer or block was removed, Wedge won't show anything), or it has a preference for a certain place, but wouldn't bother much if this was moved elsewhere, as long as it's shown, so it can specify multiple targets, and it should show up eventually.
That's the why I tried to satisfy both modders and themers, and believe me -- not easy. I can still add steps to these, but I'm limited by what I'm actually using in my own system -- there are usually several ways to do a single thing, it's up to the author's preference. I do things my own way, but sometimes, sometimes I probably don't see the bigger picture. I'm flawed, but at least I know it.
It seems, to me, and pardon me again for being forward :) that theres less "to do" for a themer other than provide the "look" of it.
I don't know. Of course, being the author of this complicated system, I guess I can create a new skin and do something completely silly with it in less than 10 minutes, without modifying any CSS or HTML.
Maybe shift things around - but thats as much the job for the admin as for a themer.
And how does SMF fix that? They're not, AFAIK... The admin has to install a mod & a theme, and hope that they behave correctly together.
This is a bit difficult atm..but I will persevere in it, although it may take some time to then come up with good designs - without being too much alike each other. ;) Thats my drive in it anyhow, it may not be that for others of course.
As I said, I'm willing to have at least a skin of yours in Wedge core, and I'd be satisfied if it was as removed as possible from my own 'habits'. I've seen you experiment a lot, and I like the idea that skins are so short that you can afford to do strange things that won't systematically break.
Regarding core, Wedge will definitely ship with Weaving and Wilde. Wine will probably be distributed as a separate plugin 'for fun', as well as Warm. Wuthering will almost certainly be deleted entirely, because it was just a draft for Wilde, and originally a use case for 'nested skins', but Warm can do that as well. Regarding Weaving, I find it to be too complex, so I undertook a simplification of its CSS, got started a few days ago but stopped my work when I figured I should probably remove themes first. Weaving's goal is to remain 'usable', while refraining from using graphical additions to the DIVs around there. For instance, the linktree is very simple in Weaving, so I'm okay with that one, but the cat/title elements are already too 'busy'. This is actually the first thing I redid locally, lol... Removed a third of my cat/title CSS, just like that. I think Weaving can still look good as long as some care is given to the page header. It needs to be 'striking' in order to at least catch some attention. Maybe the Wine (or Warm) header is well suited for that. Or maybe Wilderless's. I don't know.
Anyway, just my 2 cents (and 2 years of work)...
;)