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Recycling board by default
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Poll

Recycle bin or inline moderation?

recycle
22 (50%)
inline
12 (27.3%)
Don't care
7 (15.9%)
Don't know
3 (6.8%)
Total Members Voted: 42

Nao

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Re: Recycling board by default
« Reply #45, on February 15th, 2011, 09:27 AM »
Quote from Arantor on February 15th, 2011, 09:19 AM
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Then... What do we do?
Maybe this is a sign that we have to rethink how recycled topics need to be handled. Or we accept that having board 2 as-is isn't an entirely bad thing.
Oh, see, I'd rather either go 0 and rewrite everything, or go 100 and rewrite the stuff to not use auto_increment (and if you really want to use auto_increment, there are some complicated alternatives using a secondary table), than leave it at #2... :-/

Alternatively, we could rewrite the recycle bin stuff to leave deleted topics/posts in their place and just consider them as unapproved... Then we could simply have somewhere in the admin area an "unapproved posts/topics browser" or something. That would actually be my preferred solution.
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FWIW, I'd rather have styles, it's shorter and easier to remember.
Alrighty.

Arantor

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Re: Recycling board by default
« Reply #46, on February 15th, 2011, 09:34 AM »
Leaving it at 2 isn't *that* bad, IMO, but I can see why it should probably be moved.
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Alternatively, we could rewrite the recycle bin stuff to leave deleted topics/posts in their place and just consider them as unapproved... Then we could simply have somewhere in the admin area an "unapproved posts/topics browser" or something. That would actually be my preferred solution.
There's already an unapproved posts/topics browser in the moderation centre. But honestly, I think that makes it too likely that stuff gets brought back into the ecosystem, not to mention the fact that in every way you slice it, the UI ends up sucking badly, whether you make it 'deleted' but left inline, or moderated for the purposes of deletion. (SimpleDesk moved from an SMF style to the whole inline thing, and it's one of the few things that while I wrote, I ended up really hating in practice)
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Nao

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Re: Recycling board by default
« Reply #47, on February 15th, 2011, 10:51 AM »
Quote from Arantor on February 15th, 2011, 09:34 AM
Leaving it at 2 isn't *that* bad, IMO, but I can see why it should probably be moved.
Most people would only enable that board *after* creating their main structure, so they wouldn't mind about the board ID... But having it created by default, and show up for admins, can be a little unnerving. Not only that, but if you're one of these admins who don't believe in deleting posts (or who believe that deleting posts should be definitive), that's a board you'll really never get to use at all, so you'll delete it (if you can/think of it), and it'll create a gap in the board list... (Less of a problem, though.)
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There's already an unapproved posts/topics browser in the moderation centre.
Which I never use, hence my ignorance :P
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But honestly, I think that makes it too likely that stuff gets brought back into the ecosystem, not to mention the fact that in every way you slice it, the UI ends up sucking badly, whether you make it 'deleted' but left inline, or moderated for the purposes of deletion. (SimpleDesk moved from an SMF style to the whole inline thing, and it's one of the few things that while I wrote, I ended up really hating in practice)
UI? Why is it a UI problem at all?
I think we should ask others what they think about this...

Arantor

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Re: Recycling board by default
« Reply #48, on February 15th, 2011, 10:56 AM »
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that's a board you'll really never get to use at all, so you'll delete it (if you can/think of it), and it'll create a gap in the board list... (Less of a problem, though.)
Or you'll repurpose it.
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Which I never use, hence my ignorance
Incidentally, I don't use it much either, even on forums I post moderate(d). The inline view is much more useful in that respect.
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UI? Why is it a UI problem at all?
I think we should ask others what they think about this...
If I delete a post from a topic, I don't want it sat there with a different border, I want it out the topic - I deleted it for a reason, I didn't just 'unapprove' it. So if we then keep deleted posts inside the topic but have a different interface, we then have to figure out how to visually distinguish between actual moderated posts and what we have already deleted.

Have a play with what SimpleDesk does with respect to deleted posts and see how it feels. It looks and feels a lot like post moderation, and works basically the same way too - but it's a different thing altogether.

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Nao

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Re: Recycling board by default (PLEASE READ THE FEB. 15 POSTS EVERYONE!)
« Reply #50, on February 15th, 2011, 05:59 PM »
The question was about the Recycle Bin.
Pete thinks that it's best to create it by default, so that it's easier to find etc.
I think that we should drop the recycle bin and replace it with inline deletion --- i.e. if you delete a post, it shows up in the original topic, or if you delete a topic it shows up in the original board, only with a different color (also different from the "unapproved" color obviously), and only for those who can view them (original authors, admins). With the ability to restore them.

Well, that's my opinion but since we happen to disagree on UI matters, I think it can only be settled by checking for everyone else's opinion ;)

Arantor

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Re: Recycling board by default (PLEASE READ THE FEB. 15 POSTS EVERYONE!)
« Reply #51, on February 15th, 2011, 06:06 PM »
Specifically, I think inline deletion is a PITA, especially since it'll confuse people who have post moderation on, and I learned with SimpleDesk that it's not very effective. But that's me.

I don't think the recycle bin is the best way either, having seen this discussion in the last few days, so perhaps we need to step back and think of something else, that solves all our issues with it.

Dragooon

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The way it's meant to be

Arantor

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Dragooon

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Arantor

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Re: Recycling board by default (PLEASE READ THE FEB. 15 POSTS EVERYONE!)
« Reply #55, on February 15th, 2011, 07:19 PM »
I don't mean performance, I mean, I did it in SimpleDesk and it's not a killer - but it always felt so wrong to use.

To me, if you delete a post, you want rid of it, out of the thread entirely. I just can't see how it would be the way to do it in a forum. I think we need to look for plan C.

Nao

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Dragooon

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Re: Recycling board by default (PLEASE READ THE FEB. 15 POSTS EVERYONE!)
« Reply #57, on February 15th, 2011, 07:45 PM »
Quote from Arantor on February 15th, 2011, 07:19 PM
I don't mean performance, I mean, I did it in SimpleDesk and it's not a killer - but it always felt so wrong to use.

To me, if you delete a post, you want rid of it, out of the thread entirely. I just can't see how it would be the way to do it in a forum. I think we need to look for plan C.
I didn't mean performance either, by a billion queries I was referring to the checks you'd need to add, had they not been there I don't see a problem. Perhaps create a copy of messages and topics table to store the deleted posts and topics?

Arantor

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Dragooon

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Re: Recycling board by default (PLEASE READ THE FEB. 15 POSTS EVERYONE!)
« Reply #59, on February 15th, 2011, 08:13 PM »
Keep the IDs(For restoring you can just insert the whole row as is) and don't display it? I mean you can create another section for just the moderation.

Or rather, set the id_board in messages or topics to 0, that way you don't set up a new board and you get the ability to enable it by default. Have another field id_old_board and do some special php-fu to display it inside the topic.
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