Nao

  • Dadman with a boy
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Re: Bloc Madness
« Reply #75, on August 1st, 2012, 09:53 PM »
Quote from Kindred on August 1st, 2012, 09:34 PM
:)   I like curve, actually. :P
So it was you...? :P
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2.1 was never intended to be ground breaking. It was intended to take 2.0 - do some needed enhancements, add some features which we liked and fix a few other things which were still buggy in 2.0.
Yup, and I have no problems with that, but it's definitely odd that a year into it, it still isn't released..? Is there any 'work-in-progress' in it, or you just felt at the time that it wasn't 'worth' releasing at this point?
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As for Bloc and Vienna - as good as Bloc is, he seems to have something like A.D.D. - he doesn't seem to focus on any project for much longer than a few months at a time.
Well... I'm sorta ADD in real life, but when it comes to Wedge I've always made at least a few commits a week for the last 100+ weeks... Demonstrating my focus.

Of course it's not about me... It's just my favorite discussion topic: myself :lol:

PantsManUK

  • [me=PantsManUK]would dearly love to dump SMF 1.X at this juncture...[/me]
  • Posts: 174
Re: Bloc Madness
« Reply #76, on August 2nd, 2012, 10:50 AM »
Catching up with an old (for me) post, but frankly "meh".

As much as I like Bloc's previous works (we still use a modified Oxygen on our SMF install) I could care less about pretty much everything he's done since SMF 2.0 was announced. As for VBBS and comments posted there by him and others, sour grapes? I doubt very much any of them have come back to wedge.org since you started eating your own dog food, so they are basically pissing in the wind.

And to post merge (somewhat); less of the "old coders" young R-G. I'm 42 in a month and a smidge and I love Git, but I'm coming at it as a Mac user with Tower. The world of Git is totally coloured by your window onto it, your (graphical) client, and the Wintel marketplace is yet to have a killer graphical git client. Having said that, you guys should use whatever VCS best suits you and the project. DVCS isn't perfect (or even right) for every project, and if you are all happier using SVN (or Hg, or Bazaar, or CVS, or whatever...) then stick to what works best and balls to anyone that wants to argue the toss. Me, I'll happily wait until I can publicly and in license get the source tree and then I'll make a Git repo using it. :D
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Nightwish

  • Posts: 41
Re: Bloc Madness
« Reply #77, on August 2nd, 2012, 04:41 PM »
Quote from PantsManUK on August 2nd, 2012, 10:50 AM
And to post merge (somewhat); less of the "old coders" young R-G. I'm 42 in a month and a smidge and I love Git, but I'm coming at it as a Mac user with Tower. The world of Git is totally coloured by your window onto it, your (graphical) client, and the Wintel marketplace is yet to have a killer graphical git client.
There is smartgit, with decent functionality and crappy look and IDEA's git integration which will basically blow everything out of the water in terms of functionality and coolness (once you spent a couple of months to discover the endless number of cool things in idea).

But Tower *does* look nice and has the potential to make Windows/*nix users jealous :)

Totally disappointed by GitHub's very own Windows client. What a joke, it installs like 30+ megs... for what? Doesn't even *look* cool :)
Every program has at least one bug and can be shortened by at least one instruction -- from which, by induction, one can deduce that every program can be reduced to a single instruction that doesn't work.
My SMF-based forum fork

Dragooon

  • I can code! Really!
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  • Posts: 1,841
Re: Bloc Madness
« Reply #78, on August 2nd, 2012, 05:13 PM »
Mac has far better git clients than any Windows counterparts, I've personally tried everything on Windows and Tower blows them out of water. Even SourceTree (free I believe) or other clients on Mac are far better than SmartGit in terms of ease of use. I haven't tried IDEA though.
The way it's meant to be

Kindred

  • Posts: 166
Re: Bloc Madness
« Reply #79, on August 2nd, 2012, 05:44 PM »
Arantor,

Before I left the team, my proposal/push was to get 2.1 into beta July/Aug (still possible, thanks to a ton of work from emanuele!)
2.2, 2.3 releases would be dependent on the movement of SMC/3.0. If, as I suspect, SMC/3.0 is still several years away, then additional 2.x releases would be necessary, IMO.

Nao

  • Dadman with a boy
  • Posts: 16,063
Re: Bloc Madness
« Reply #80, on August 3rd, 2012, 01:15 PM »
@Nightwish> Actually I think that Github for Windows' only good point is its Metro-inspired UI... Other than that, well, I uninstalled it long ago... It was 'relatively' easy to grasp, doesn't expose a lot of features but it still needs a lot of work.

@PantsManUK> Hmmm... A Wedge repo on GH? Well, I suppose we'd need an official GH repo synced from our SVN... Like https://github.com/WordPress/WordPress/ for instance... But I have to say, I don't see myself keeping track of it... Let alone integrating pull requests back into SVN. Maybe if we have a git specialist around (Dragooon?) who'd like to volunteer for the job...
Posted: August 3rd, 2012, 01:07 PM

@On topic: Bloc posted again on the subject... All I can say is, what good is it to call us 'narrow-minded'? I think we all established long ago that we're all very protective of our own work, and while open to outside suggestions, we still ultimately retain the final decision on our own stuff... This is what Bloc can, and does do with ViennaBBS, and what we do with Wedge. The very fact that Bloc left the Wedge project over the fact that I didn't follow *all*[1] of his advice on the logo creation process says it all to me... I think he needed/wanted to be in charge of the entire visual area of Wedge, and would have stayed if he had such freedom. But I'm just as excited as he is about design, and although I don't have his skills, I do have a lot of experience, having been making neat websites for the last 16 years, so, what can I say... I guess it was already written. I don't think we lost time over this, though. I just find it sad that Bloc thinks he did. I for one sure would like to be able to rely on his skills and ideas for Wedge. But I'd rather have nothing, than have to give him full control over our themes, considering his recent lack of focus.
 1. I did follow some!
Re: Bloc Madness
« Reply #81, on August 9th, 2012, 11:55 AM »
I posted a long answer over there... Since it's a pre-moderated message (meh), I'm posting it here in case Bloc doesn't approve it...
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Quote from Xarcell on August 9th, 2012, 01:19 AM
I really hate to hear it Bloc. I was waiting for viennabbs also. I even resigned from Dream Portal. Oh well, it is what it is.
I'm curious to see how long it will take you to innocently come back to wedge.org and discuss the upcoming release when you didn't exactly have nice words to say about it just last month when you had ViennaBBS to look forward to ;)
Don't forget about EosAlpha, either...

Bloc, I just wanted to register to make something clear on your forum -- because in the end, it's always about two communities not talking to each other and having preconceived opinions about one another.

So, without further ado:

- Yes, I rejected your last suggestions about Wedge, and no, it doesn't mean I'm a bad guy.

- Yes, Pete and I always have the last word on Wedge. But because we're the decision makers, we also have a huge responsibility to deliver on our word. And I'd much rather be 'powerless' at this point, and not have that responsibility. The stress level would be totally different.

- No, just because I rejected your suggestions, it doesn't mean I rejected you.

- And just because you have ego issues, it doesn't mean we don't respect you either. We do have ego issues, ourselves.

- I'd just like for it to make it clear that I have the utmost respect for your work and your skills, but that I don't think you're being fair -- to us, to your users, and to yourself. If you're going to make ViennaBBS, then do it silently like we did for a year with Wedge. Don't mention it, then say you're giving up, then resuming work, then giving up again. Just say it's something you don't have plans to release before 2015 or something, and people will lose immediate interest, while still trying to follow what you're doing. It'll be less messy.

- If you're going to complain about Wedge, say anything you like because it's a free country (well, France and Norway are free countries anyway), but I can't let you say it's a "developer-centric SMF" that is not thought out for themers. I spent many, MANY months of my life working on the CSS preprocessor for Wedge. It's a work of art in itself. I may not be as good a designer as you are, but I certainly know what designers need to make their life easier. And you even agree yourself to a point -- recently you mentioned how SMF required of themers that they overwrite index.css to replace some stuff in it, and you pushed towards being able to add on top of it. Well, as you know it's a feature that's been in Wedge for over a year and a half now...

So, I'm simply asking of you to be fair to us. We really liked having you onboard. Just because you didn't feel comfortable not having any actual control over Wedge itself doesn't mean we disrespected you in any way. You're in the same position as everyone else but Pete and I... Had you joined the project on day one, it might have been different, but at that point we were already the two-headed entity that became known as Wedgeward and we locked everything for everyone, including our close friends like Dragooon or live627 (who will gradually get more power over Wedge).
We made Wedge because we weren't happy with SMF's direction and lack of commitment of its team, not because we hated the software as it was at the time. Effectively, we left because the SMF team was too narrow-minded per se, what you're accusing us of being. And you were part of the team at the time.

I'm just wondering... What does 'narrow-minded' mean to you? Someone who doesn't think your way?

(Shamelessly inspired from Eugène Labiche's "An egoist is someone who doesn't think about me.")

spoogs

  • Posts: 417
Re: Bloc Madness
« Reply #82, on August 9th, 2012, 05:41 PM »
That was mighty big of you Nao to reach out and clear the air with Bloc and I see he has allowed the post public and replied in kind. Hopefully things will remain civil going forward.
Stick a fork in it SMF

Nao

  • Dadman with a boy
  • Posts: 16,063
Re: Bloc Madness
« Reply #83, on August 10th, 2012, 12:31 PM »
Well, it might sound odd, but I don't hold grudges against people as long as they're willing to talk again (i.e. we both recognize our mutual interest in each other.)
Except with akyhne and vblamer of course, because they're so lame and don't even deserve a second of my time. :niark: