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Messages - Arantor
7366
FAQs / [FAQ] Re: Why are there so many features? / Isn't that bloated?
« on May 22nd, 2011, 06:23 PM »
It's the ideal I strive for, the reality was somewhat less wonderful :P

But more features in the core means less headaches later :)
7367
FAQs / [FAQ] Re: Why are there so many features? / Isn't that bloated?
« on May 22nd, 2011, 06:16 PM »
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I doubt many if any of the bug fixes affect my site, so I never noticed and I dont get too many reports of oddities from my members.
Most people would never notice most of the bugs.
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I completely suck a coding anything but I actually pay attention to what I'm taught and I'm prone to follow a certain amount of logic at times...
If only I were so methodical... oh well!
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In some cases major feature will be more of the driving force than anything as to whether to upgrade or not.
It's a combination of 'if it isn't broken, don't fix it' and the fact that mods push boundaries that the core doesn't.
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I would even admin that SD was the reason to move to RC3 though it installed fine on RC2 with emulation when it was released but just in case anything went awry I'd rather be using the version it supports.
SD 1.0 was written pretty much against RC2 anyway, with minor layout changes only for RC3 and future compatibility where cat_bar and title_bar are used, nothing more.
7368
Features: Miscellaneous / Re: Improvements to Hooks
« on May 22nd, 2011, 05:49 PM »
Quote from Arantor on May 22nd, 2011, 05:35 PM
(I think there's a mod by Miss All Sunday, a spoiler mod IIRC, that uses hooks to add a new bbcode without any edits, might be worth looking at that.)
7369
Features: Miscellaneous / Re: Improvements to Hooks
« on May 22nd, 2011, 05:43 PM »
Oh, that might not be the best idea... I did some rather creative interpretation of the hooks at times.
7370
FAQs / [FAQ] Re: Why are there so many features? / Isn't that bloated?
« on May 22nd, 2011, 05:42 PM »
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Of course on the day it's release there will be a bunch of 'congrats' posts... but I'm stuck on congrats for what?
Exactly. SimpleDesk 2.0 will be out around the same sort of time, but that at least deserves some congrats because of the 12k lines of code added since the first release.
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I pointed out that the only real reason to move to RC5 or Final is SD2.0...
Having just spent several hours doing a manual upgrade from RC3 to RC5 because I was stupid enough not to package *everything* as mods, I can say that the bug fixes weren't enough of a reason to move, because we never encountered half the bugs that cropped up. The only reason I made the move is because I had to for SimpleDesk.
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no other reason unless someone can point out something that I'm missing.
The main one is bug fixes. The security change in RC5 was backported to the security patch which runs on RC3 with emulation, so you're not missing anything there.

The one that may come into play more in time is the integration hooks; they were all added after RC3, and without someone packaging those, you're SOL[1] without an upgrade to at least RC4 - and because of the way hooks have been implemented and changed between RC4, RC5 and final, you may find you have to upgrade to fix mod issues with the hooks.
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I went from RC1.2 - RC2/3 only because it made sense and it moved to RC3 only a week
It's interesting how mods drive things at times; the only reason I moved one site to RC1.2 in the first place from 1.1.9 is because of Project Tools, and it's funny how I'm only moving that same site to RC5 because of another mod, being used in much the same way...
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if SD 2.0 would work on RC3 even then I'd have less reason to upgrade
I weighed that up, the hassle of support issues for file edits vs pushing people to a later version; it was a no-brainer from my perspective.
 1. I should use this more often.
7371
Features: Miscellaneous / Re: Improvements to Hooks
« on May 22nd, 2011, 05:35 PM »
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I presume that you have to make an edit to the file that lists the files (/functions?) to be loaded?
Nope.

You have an install script, it calls existing SMF functions to add to the list of files to load. No edits required.

(I think there's a mod by Miss All Sunday, a spoiler mod IIRC, that uses hooks to add a new bbcode without any edits, might be worth looking at that.)
7372
FAQs / [FAQ] Re: Why are there so many features? / Isn't that bloated?
« on May 22nd, 2011, 05:01 PM »
I don't think 2.0 final will be as well received as everyone thinks, actually. I suspect it will be regarded with a degree of 'meh' because it doesn't add anything other than bug fixes.

Then, all the mod authors who swore they wouldn't update until 2.0 final... let's just say I don't expect a mass influx of mod authors scrabbling to update for 2.0 final; those who cared, already did so, those who were going to wait were expecting it last year at the latest, most of whom have since moved on.
7373
Features: Miscellaneous / Re: Improvements to Hooks
« on May 22nd, 2011, 04:53 PM »
Quote from Nao/Gilles on May 22nd, 2011, 04:26 PM
Hmm, makes me think we should add hooks at post preparation time...
If only to enable mods to add their own entries into the user menu, things like that.
That's mostly what SMF uses them for. It's functional if not particularly imaginative.
Quote from DoctorMalboro on May 22nd, 2011, 04:11 PM
I don't get them in SMF, and I don't think I've get them here... :P

I need good examples of it.
OK, let me grab you some from SimpleDesk 2.0.

SimpleDesk is big and scary and does stuff like load its own permissions on every page, amongst plenty of other things it does.

One of them is to load Subs-SimpleDesk.php. Now, I could make a code edit somewhere to load that file, or I could avoid editing any SMF file and add it to the integrate_pre_load hook. The hook is just a list of files to load, so it loads that file. I set it up in the installer, and I'm done. (Look, ma, no edits.)

I then need to do some work with actions. At a minimum I need to define action=helpdesk, and if it's in the weird 'standalone' mode, I also need to remove other actions. Plus I need to juggle action=unread and action=unreadreplies for an SD specific wrapper around them for staff.

Now, I *could* modify index.php for all this, like SimpleDesk 1.0 does, but why should I make file edits when I can achieve the same thing with no hassle for forum owners? And there's a hook for this sort of thing, integrate_actions I think it's called.

Inside that monster Subs-SimpleDesk.php is a function called shd_init_actions. It receives the $actionArray as a variable, in a form it can modify, then I can do my own stuff. I simply tell SMF to call my function at the right time and my function does the rest. So now I have my own file loaded and my own actions added... and I haven't made a single file edit at this point.

I can do exactly the same for the main menu, the admin menu, and plenty more besides.

SlammedDime's SimpleSEF 2.0 (for 2.0 RC5) can actually do everything it does without a single file edit, because it just instructs SMF to load it with the designated hooks and call the relevant functions at the relevant times.

I'd say that the ability to make changes, functionally, to a forum without file edits is pretty damn important. That's our goal with Wedge: to drastically expand the functionality there so it is possible to write most add-ons in a way that doesn't require file edits all over the show.

Even as powerful as the hooks are now (they were stupid before), it's still not enough; SimpleDesk still makes over a dozen file edits, but it's now far fewer than the dozens of edits it used to have to make.
7374
Off-topic / Re: Doctor Who
« on May 22nd, 2011, 04:44 PM »
Quote from Nao/Gilles on May 22nd, 2011, 04:30 PM
Actually the actor is Scottish and he only refrained himself from using his accent when shooting ;)
Except in Tooth & Claw. ;)
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Tennant isn't particularly exciting in the beginning, but he'll grow on you, don't worry. If only with Blink, Silence in the Library, and the ending to Waters of Mars. (That's where I definitely thought, "unbeatable actor for the Doctor." Too bad he was about to leave!)
I find his scripts actually gave him, generally speaking, less room to manuever as his run went on, because I was getting fed up of hearing "I'm sorry, I'm so sorry" virtually every episode. Angst is a wonderful conflict generator but turning a character into a walking bucket of angst instead of his role as narrator and guide... sorry, no.

(Remember, structurally and dramatically speaking, the Doctor himself isn't the focus of the stories, at least not the very best ones. It's really about the companions and their stories - and he's the facilitator and guide for their journeys. Season 5 particularly shows this: it's about Amy and Rory and their dynamic, as well as River - very little about the man himself really.)


(click to show/hide)
@DoctorMarlboro: I'm sorry, I'm so sorry. ;)
7375
Features: Miscellaneous / Re: What's a hook?
« on May 22nd, 2011, 03:08 PM »
That's basically it, yes.

A practical example of the hook usage would be the Display template as of 2.0 RC4 (or RC5, not sure off hand which)

Prior to that, if you wanted to add a button to the menu under a topic - like the Reply, Notify or whatever (here we have a Move To Tracker button!), you have to modify the code.

But with the later version, the array that holds that menu is provided to a function you can specify, which means you can modify it without editing any files.

Another example is the bbcode system; previously, if you wanted to create a new bbcode, you had to edit the file in some way.


Hooks just being able to run functions isn't necessarily that beneficial - but if you can take data out of the main program and manipulate it inside a hook, you're able to do a whole lot more without any code changes, theme or otherwise.
7376
FAQs / [FAQ] Re: Why are there so many features? / Isn't that bloated?
« on May 22nd, 2011, 01:57 PM »
Welcome :)

One thing I will say is that both Nao and I can be controversial, but it comes out of two things:
1. We're passionate about what we do, and because we are, we *care* about it.
2. Part of being passionate is that we end up drawing lines in the sand and making people pick which side they stand on, rather than trying to please everyone at once and failing on all counts...
7377
Off-topic / Re: Doctor Who
« on May 22nd, 2011, 11:05 AM »
Eccleston had a problem to face that was only faced briefly in 1996 with the TV movie: a show that's been off the air for years, with a large but dormant fanbase - bearing in mind that anyone who saw DW the first time around would have grown quite a bit since then, so they had to come up with something that appealed to kids as well as the nostalgia of their parents.

The season has a lot of great moments in it but it does distinctly have the feeling of taking tentative steps rather than the big expansive ones it can take now.

For me, season 1's highlights:
(click to show/hide)
The Empty Child two-parter, where we first see Captain Jack Harkness and the ever creepy, "Are you my mummy?", and the closing moments of the finale with the Time Vortex and the Heart of the TARDIS.

Season 2 is where it starts to extend its stride a bit.
(click to show/hide)
The Girl in the Fireplace, episode of epic. Plus one of my all time favourites, The Impossible Planet / The Satan Pit.

Season 3 is definitely where it reaches real critical mass.
(click to show/hide)
The 2- or 3-part (depending on who you listen to) finale is pretty big, but the episode of the season, beyond any doubt is Blink.

Season 4 does a few interesting things.
(click to show/hide)
A big reunion in the finale, seeing how it was David's last full season as Doctor, but for me the epic moment of the season is the Silence in the Library / The Forest of the Dead, especially River Song's speech at the end.

I'll leave season 5 for now for commentary, I really need to rewatch it!
7378
The Pub / Re: Front Page  Something other than a board listing.
« on May 21st, 2011, 11:18 PM »
I've actually raised this very thing myself because I actually need to implement this for InI...
7379
Off-topic / Re: Doctor Who
« on May 21st, 2011, 09:06 PM »
OK, episode 5.

(click to show/hide)
Doctor as peacemaker, it goes horribly wrong. Just like the Silurians again.

(click to show/hide)
This time with a fun cloned Doctor. Who might be evil of sorts.

(click to show/hide)
Not the most exciting of episodes. I've seen worse in DT's episodes (like New New York when Rose visited with DT) but not the best. Hopefully next episode will be better in the run up to the mid season break.
7380
Features / Re: New revs
« on May 21st, 2011, 07:17 PM »
Revision: 778
Author: arantor
Date: 18:16:47, 21 May 2011
Message:
! Sync to SMF
 ! r10504 Validation error with collapsed boards. (And I got the indentation right.) (BoardIndex.template.php)
 ! r10505 Making a board child of itself crashed the forum. (Subs-Boards.php, Errors.english.php) [Bug 4710]
 ! r10506 Theme option changes was not loaded after profile changes in some cases. (This fix is slightly more thorough than the one posted before, it actually checks the input is an array before trying to use it as such, but otherwise it's the same fix.) (Profile-Modify.php) [Bug 4675]
 ! r10510 Member language selection was not reset upon a language deletion. (ManageServer.php) [Bug 4641] (And I fixed the comments, which they didn't.)
 * r10511 JavaScript quick topic modify did not work when quick moderation mode was 'icons'. (MessageIndex.template.php) [Bug 4715]
 ! r10512 It was possible to create permission profiles without names. (ManagePermissions.php) [Bug 4709]
 ! r10513 Additional group changes were not tracked properly. (Profile-Modify.php) [Bug 4718]
 ! r10514 Ignore boards options were ignored in MessageIndex. (Subs-BoardIndex.php) [Bug 4719]
 ! r10515-6 Remove Inactive Members maintenance removed members it should not. (ManageMaintenance.php) [Bug 4716]
 ! r10517-8, 10520 Reserved member name check failed with HTML entities. (Subs-Members.php) [Bug 4717]
 ! r10522 Minor break in PM replies fixed. (PersonalMessage.template.php) [Bug 4713] (Couldn't seem to replicate this in SMF, let alone Wedge, so have included it for now anyway)
 ! r10523 Fixed incorrect class on checkbox. Changed default removal selection to safest option.(ManageMaintenance.template.php) (The class was already gone, so that wasn't an issue, but I agreed with the change about the topic maintenance, instead of the default of 'any' being default under the purge-old area, the default is now 'moved notices')
 ! r10527 Installing, upgrading and uninstalling packages were not logged in admin log. (Packages.php, Modlog.english.php) [Bug 4469] (I actually made this one last spring as a mod, and handed it to the team on a plate to implement. They finally did!)
 * r10528 It was not possible to remove avatar when selecting avatar from gallery was disabled. (Profile-Modify.php, Profile template) [Bug 4636]
 ! r10529 Automated conversion of URLs to hyperlinks failed with URLs containing exclamation mark. (Subs-BBC.php) [Bug 4624]
 * r10530 Topic moderation using checkboxes did not function correctly for non-moderators. (topic.js) [Bug 4706] (This got jQuery-ified in the process. Hopefully this isn't too ugly now.)
 ! r10532 Profile updates did not load all previously saved data. (Profile.php, Profile-Modify.php) [Bug 4635]
 ! r10533 Login session data was cleared when it shouldn't have. [Bug 4644] And while we're at it, login by $_GET is not needed. (Login2.php, Subs-Login.php)
 ! r10537 Incorrect custom menu URL for unapproved posts moderation area. (ModerationCenter.php) [Bug 4728]
 ! r10538-9 Languages which doesn't support 12 hour time format had their 'am/pm's stripped. (Subs.php, index.english.php) [Bug 4720] (I've implemented this as is, but we may want to revert this in the time to come; there is likely a better way of doing it.)
 ! r10540 Incorrect error message when attempting to remove a non-existing post. (RemoveTopic.php) [Bug 4705]
 * Tabs and line endings within code tags were not parsed correctly for some browsers. (Packages.php, Packages.template.php) [Bug 4578] (I already attacked most of this previously, as it happens, only the package manager stuff wasn't done, and done differently - and likely better.)

! Not sync'd
 ! r10507 Bringing back the good, old welcome guest note along with activation link. [Bug 4703] (Apart from actually not doing what the changelog describes (it actually turns the 'Please login or register' into 'Welcome, Guest, please login or register')... that particular change is already better reflected in the sidebar.
 ! r10508 Upgrader fixes for MySQL 5.5 for upgrading from 1.0 and 1.1 [Bug 4698]
 ! r10509 Supposedly makes sure the MIME type gets fixed when upgrading from before 2.0, but I don't see how checking that smfVersion is identical to '2.0 a' is a viable trigger here... [Bug 4700]
 ! r10519 Replicating the change from 10517-8 into 1.1 branch
 ! r10521 More MySQL 5.5 fixes, this time for 1.0
 ! r10524 Fixed Webkit/Presto bug with sidebar menus enabled. Deleted superfluous code from webkit.css and rtl.css (index.css, rtl.css, webkit.css) (The main change in index.css isn't relevant to us anyway, the RTL changes ditto... and the Webkit changes, well, I think they should probably have left the clear:right in, the others don't apply...)
 ! r10526 Categories which could not be collapsed were still given collapse links. (Subs-BoardIndex.php) [Bug 4639] (We didn't give them collapse links directly like SMF do anyway, this was never an issue for us.)
 ! r10531 Sidebar fixes - Fixing class 'clear clear' from r10525, making #avatar_upload be overflow:auto (though I have no idea what's prompted that) and giving #creator dd the same overflow, again no idea why it's necessary... so I didn't include them. Oh, and resizing an input type=file...
 ! r10534-6 Converters stuff
 ! r10542 Like 10509, this adds a test for version being '2.0 a' into the theme upgrader code.

! Special stuff
 ! r10525 Lots of weird little layout 'fixes' "mostly for IE6". The individual changes are not documented in the changelog, nor anywhere else I can find.
  - Subs-BoardIndex.php, breaking the category links up so instead of a single a tag being the anchor for categories and the link for collapsing it, they separated it. We were already separate anyway after the last time they messed with this. (NOT ADDED)
  - Admin template, instances of hr tags all getting .clear added to them, not entirely sure why. Including one instance of hr that needed it so badly, it became class="hrcolor clear clear". Not entirely sure why they did this. (NOT ADDED)
  - admin.css, removing a resizing of dt and dd relative to each other inside the admin area (for narrower screens with sidebar). Code doesn't apply to us. (NOT ADDED)
  - ie6.css, they adjusted a height for the 'admin panel' from 655px to 100%, but the code doesn't apply to us. (NOT ADDED)
  - index.css: removing the weird -99em left margin for no-collapse titles (which we already noted was ridiculous at the time Ant added it, also removed from rtl.css), made the dd bigger in dl.settings (now occupies 56% instead of 48%) and also make it overflow auto to cope with smaller resolutions, they also adjusted #creator dd to float right, which is the right panel in the profile area... for no reason I can see. (ADDED, except the #creator change)
  - BoardIndex template, rejigging how the category title was output with the surrounding markup. Incidentally, it's now virtually what we already had, with the actual name being output last, relative to the collapse and unread links. (NOT ADDED)
  - ManageBans template, making one text field bigger than the DB field that holds it, plus resizing the different text boxes to line up; we're going to be ripping this out anyway. (NOT ADDED)
  - ManageBoards template, adding style="float:left; width:100%;" to the ul that forms the category contents of the main manage-boards screen, really no idea why. (NOT ADDED)
  - ManageMembers template, making some catbgs rounded when they weren't before. (ADDED)
  - ManagePermissions template, making one area handle oversize content better. (ADDED)
  - ManageSearch template, moving the save-search-weights button into the curved area and to the right, to be more consistent with everything else, and moving the save-search-method button to the right, again for consistency. (ADDED)
  - Packages template, making the textboxes all the same size. (ADDED)
  - Profile template, the instances of hr tags all got .clear added to them, like Admin template. (NOT ADDED)
----
Modified : /trunk/Sources/Login2.php
Modified : /trunk/Sources/ManageMaintenance.php
Modified : /trunk/Sources/ManagePermissions.php
Modified : /trunk/Sources/ManageServer.php
Modified : /trunk/Sources/ModerationCenter.php
Modified : /trunk/Sources/Packages.php
Modified : /trunk/Sources/Profile-Modify.php
Modified : /trunk/Sources/Profile.php
Modified : /trunk/Sources/RemoveTopic.php
Modified : /trunk/Sources/Subs-BBC.php
Modified : /trunk/Sources/Subs-BoardIndex.php
Modified : /trunk/Sources/Subs-Boards.php
Modified : /trunk/Sources/Subs-Login.php
Modified : /trunk/Sources/Subs-Members.php
Modified : /trunk/Sources/Subs.php
Modified : /trunk/Themes/default/BoardIndex.template.php
Modified : /trunk/Themes/default/ManageMaintenance.template.php
Modified : /trunk/Themes/default/ManageMembers.template.php
Modified : /trunk/Themes/default/ManagePermissions.template.php
Modified : /trunk/Themes/default/ManageSearch.template.php
Modified : /trunk/Themes/default/MessageIndex.template.php
Modified : /trunk/Themes/default/Packages.template.php
Modified : /trunk/Themes/default/PersonalMessage.template.php
Modified : /trunk/Themes/default/Profile.template.php
Modified : /trunk/Themes/default/languages/Errors.english.php
Modified : /trunk/Themes/default/languages/Modlog.english.php
Modified : /trunk/Themes/default/languages/Profile.english.php
Modified : /trunk/Themes/default/languages/index.english.php
Modified : /trunk/Themes/default/scripts/topic.js
Modified : /trunk/Themes/default/styles/index.css