Nao

  • Dadman with a boy
  • Posts: 16,079


Re: Now with 97% more visuals!
« Reply #32, on July 15th, 2011, 03:52 PM »
I prefer he user box on the left, just has a better flow to me that way (also could be just that I'm use to it that way}. Userbox on the left sidebar on the right should be fine.


Re: Now with 97% more visuals!
« Reply #34, on July 16th, 2011, 12:55 AM »
Userbox on the right has even been done in Curve with modest CSS changes as SleePy proved to me once.
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I certainly am fascinated by that direction.
At the same time, that introduces another problem. Partly there is the notion of the paralysis of choice: that we have so much choice that we can't make a *good* choice. Too many options is confusing, and I'd rather cut back on some of the options rather than create more. Most people don't even alter the options generally anyway.

Plus, the more complex you make the default, the more functionality you give it, the more there is to break, and the more there is to be broken by other themes that don't support all the options given in the core. It's an interesting direction, but it is not to be taken lightly.
Re: Now with 97% more visuals!
« Reply #35, on July 16th, 2011, 01:17 AM »
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But I am been hacking at it for some years now, and feel confident enough to pursue it.
Good for you! Thing is, even if you're not confident, it's still worth the journey, being confident makes the journey an order of magnitude easier though.
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I feel the WAY options are presented are often the problem.
Oh, that's easily more of the problem than the problem of paralysis of choice - a complex interface with numerous options can be daunting, but if done properly it can still be made relatively easy to use, even compared to interfaces with fewer options.

One of the observations I've made over the years of SMF's admin panel is that it's been built by programmers, not UI designers. I consider myself more in the former group, but I still put some effort into the UIs I design from a design/utilitarian POV, and I don't think enough developers do that - the result is that all of the admin panels tend to be complex and cluttered, but the devs can tell you where any option is because it made sense to them to do it that way.

For example, post moderation. I understand mechanically why it was implemented how it was, but is there any need for three separate variations on the same settings to be presented (permissions/simple view, permissions/classic view, Permissions > Post Moderation)? Would it not be better to create a single method instead?

As for the streams of ticky boxes, that was something I knew I'd encounter in SimpleDesk and while the solution implemented isn't perfect, it does remedy it somewhat: the preferences are broken down by groups, and the groups are collapsed by default, so you only see the preferences you want to adjust at a time.

That's why I'm slowly phasing out Core Features. In itself, it's relatively meaningful - each feature has a big shiny button to enable it. But, you have to press Save (belying the apparent ease of use) and it's not immediately clear that there are more options to enable because of this otherwise hidden dialogue. (And in some cases, it was actually a waste of time doing it that way, e.g. profile fields, since as far as I can tell it never even checked the actual setting; the setting just does a little housekeeping that the rest of the screen could easily do instead)

Re: Now with 97% more visuals!
« Reply #36, on July 16th, 2011, 02:02 AM »Last edited on July 16th, 2011, 04:20 AM by Road Rash
Quote from Bloc on July 16th, 2011, 01:09 AM
I feel the WAY options are presented are often the problem. No-one likes long pages of tick'able boxes.
Personally I like pages of checkable boxes. (Edited) To me, It's all about admin choices. The only other alternative I see is a ON/OFF button if its the check box you don't like.

Re: Now with 97% more visuals!
« Reply #37, on July 16th, 2011, 02:07 AM »
No, it's not all about admin choices.

Take SimpleDesk. There's pages of options that I doubt most people will ever touch in there. Sure, it's nice to offer the choice, but in reality most of the time the choice doesn't benefit you and makes it harder to find the options you actually want or need.

Plus the fact that the more options you put in, the more there is to break, the more there is to slow things down, the more there is to put people off making new stuff, and just for fun, the more there is to deal with people change things and don't know how they've done it.


Classic example: in SMF, you can actually disable the ability for users to mark a topic or board read. You can also disable the ability to actually have sticky topics. Yet I never knew of any users who ever actually disabled these options, and as such it only added unnecessary complexity for most users and benefitted a tiny proportion who might turn them off.

Re: Now with 97% more visuals!
« Reply #39, on July 16th, 2011, 11:00 PM »
Quote from Bloc on July 16th, 2011, 12:51 AM
Looking good now, more polished. I am not quite so sure about the color choices - I fear it will too washed out to be really stand out, but thats just my opinion.
No, I actually agree... I just find it to be a small improvement over the color that was used for months. I just wanted a quick fix as it's screenshot time really. Feel free to offer better suggestions :)
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Default themes have always been met with "default theme is awful" but in the end, that is what makes them stand out, that "everyone" use it and hate/love it. It becomes a trademark.
Absolutely.
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I certainly am fascinated by that direction.
At the very least, I find it refreshing.

Re: Now with 97% more visuals!
« Reply #40, on July 18th, 2011, 12:12 PM »
Would you guys consider some options in admin area for making thread view a little bit lighter weight?
I am not about the idea that every reply does have to contain header (it is the name of the thread in 99%) and also I personaly prefer shorter "profile" area on the left side of each post. Think it improve readability and reduce (at least my) frustration when reading discussion of one sentence replies 300px at height each because I need to be told which size of shoes the authors wear.

Re: Now with 97% more visuals!
« Reply #41, on July 18th, 2011, 01:41 PM »
That's what the blog view will be primarily for, like in this thread.

That said, I'm more inclined to remove from the admin panel rather than add, but I'm sure we can do something with it.

Re: Now with 97% more visuals!
« Reply #42, on July 18th, 2011, 10:23 PM »
Quote from Bloc on July 16th, 2011, 01:09 AM
Which is why no-one dares to do it. ;D But I am been hacking at it for some years now, and feel confident enough to pursue it.

I feel the WAY options are presented are often the problem. No-one likes long pages of tick'able boxes. And thats not something I would seek to create either - finding intuitive ways is half the fun for me personally. Which prob. can also be said about your quest of making the admin page easier. :)
Good point. With SMF I've had to keep a how-to notebook noting which choices I had to make in order to alter a permission or feature or something; it's always easy to get lost and go down the wrong path, and to figure things out for the first time is very mouse-in-the-maze experience. This is one big reason I like the SMF Search feature (when it works--too many times, it doesn't produce results). A working Admin Search capability for various functions via function description would be handy to cut thru the maze.

Re: Now with 97% more visuals!
« Reply #43, on July 24th, 2011, 05:55 AM »
Looks very nice so far, have you guys considered adding a collapsible option for the left user bar? (Sorry if it was mentioned already.)

Re: Now with 97% more visuals!
« Reply #44, on July 24th, 2011, 09:22 AM »
It collapses automatically if your browser width is < 1024px or so. (I did it so that it would be apparent on a 1024x768 maximized window, and hidden in anything smaller (in width). It still shows up when you hover the left border of the screen though.

This is basically what it looks like when resizing the window and then hovering the mouse over the minimized sidebar...
(Obviously it does so through a CSS3 animation.)

 hoverside.jpg - 58.91 kB, 640x389, viewed 364 times.