Wedge

I totally plus-one the footnote above.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, guys.  But you've never seen my angry eyes!

Of course the 501c3 filing has not been underway for 14 months. There was other stuff to get done.
It was nearly a year after Simple Machines was formed before it reached an agreement with the LLC on transferring assets.
But I'm pretty new over at Simple Machines, so I was not involved in that work.

We've been working on this since about August. And some of the pages take a lot longer to fill out than others.
And we will get outside help, I promise. We'll be fine.

Thanks, everyone, for your continued interest in the well-being of Simple Machines and the SMF project.

Look like I'm gonna fill for 501c3 status on one of the non-profit organization I founded... :@

I whether the lawyer do it.

Wedge without SMF would be like Laurel without Hardie!

Laurel? Hardie? Doesn't ring a bell. :P

Stan Laurel and Oliver Hardey got along famously, and entertained people together for years.

What a charming thought.

Please take this in the spririt it's intended - (note: I am not a laywer or accountant)...... but.... having written and obtained about 10 501C3 in Philadelphia area and Southern New Jersey for all volunteer organizations - the application process is far more than its paperwork. Its the concept of "goals of programs" and commiting it to paper. (as well as having all the governance stuff worked out - bylaws, articles of incorporation, etc)

The parts of the existing financial structure aside, one of THE most important parts of the application is called the Narrative. It is where you  state  your goals, dreams and more importantly the "programs" of the organization. Getting a total census of the wording of that Narrative between every member of a board can be tough.

One other part that any people get confused with and that is a Non-Profit doesn't mean you can't make a profit (you have to stay in business), it means the "profits" of the corporation can't be used to benefit it Owners/Directors/Members (with or without stock).

The final part that gets the accounting part hung up is there is a time limit. Its 27 months after incorpoation. Up to that point if the application is approved (and it usually takes 120 days once its received), you can be considered Nonprofit back to the incorporation date. Many groups haven't paid any taxes on the previous years and until those are then filed and paid, the application is denied.

OMG you understand!

I have written a few in my day.....

The one thing I tell those doing this, is using a lawyer is usually a bad idea, since most lawyers have no idea about the group or the business and they tend to slant the answers to the application to general ones that past a test, but many times are totally unrelated to the actual programs of the organization. Most groups are told they have to use a lawyer, anyone can do it, they just have to be a member of the board or approved member. I used to write them, have them elect me to the board for 30 days to file the applicaiton, then kill of the position.

I can well imagine that a lawyer would foul up a tax return document. How about an accountant, though?

(For the record, I've done my fair share of legal paperwork, though not anything in the US, fairly obviously. My beef with this process isn't that it's difficult or time consuming but if that completing it is a problem, which it appears to be, external help should have been sought much sooner than where things are now.)

Same answer about the acccountant - they don't know about the programs.

From the accounting side, there is no issue as far as an application. You have to submit either the last 3 years worth of tax returns (or as many as you have) or in the case of a new group a 2 year projection of your finances. Groups that  have no paid staff have it easy, they can just put in zero's, having any paid staff, makes it a bit longer. They are not looking at the validity of the numbers, its more of a general feel for the size of the organization and its operating expenses.

The paperwork itself ISN'T difficult or tiime consuming, gatthering all the information (documentation) from the organization is the time issue. More importantly, the narraritive of the organization (of which all the officers must approve) is the one that drags on in my experience.

Timing of the filing of the application also helps. Its been my experience that applicatons filed in the June-September take 3-4 times long that applications filed in October-May. Speculation is all the people that looks at these are away on vacation as their is only 1 department location where they all go.

Note, my comments are not directed about the SMF situation (not defending or pomoting it), just throwing them out there as general information. The process itself is well documented, but not well understood. If anyone is going to attempt this in the future, the IRS actually produces an excellent website with all the information you need and some samples. Checkout "Lifecyle of a Charity"
http://www.irs.gov/charities/
http://www.stayexempt.irs.gov/

OK, so scratch the accountant, then. (Certainly in this country, you would readily get an accountant to file for the equivalent of NPO and they'd not have a problem with doing it.)

I do think the underlying point stands, though. If you're not familiar with it, get some help. While I appreciate the narrative part is going to be complex, I still suspect that it's taken longer than it needs to because of the lack of ability/desire to actually get it completed, seeking outside assistance as appropriate.

I don't, for example, understand why it has taken in excess of a year - without even getting to the submission stage. I realise the organisation is not the fastest on the planet but that still seems inordinately slow.

Yeah, that is a problem and by the time you get to that timeframe, the officers will have changed, and the Narrative and documents need to be updated. I tell people if you can't put it together in 4 months yourself, then don't do it, or pay someone to do it.

One of the things that can make it so easy, but is overlooked is.... All NPO applications are public information and must be provided for public inspection. Many NPO put the approved application on their websites, so there are tons of real life examples you can glean information from (That's how I taught myself to do it).

I would love to see SM NPO's application. It is not currently public.