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"Paid for" shit & shame on the SMF team
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Nao

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Re: "Paid for" shit & shame on the SMF team
« Reply #120, on August 4th, 2011, 02:15 PM »
Quote from billy2 on August 4th, 2011, 12:10 PM
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Fuck. I don't even know why I still have AeMe online over there...
I thought it was because you were enjoying watching Kindred's support responses  :niark:
I haven't visited that support topic in months. I could care less about supporting anything for *SMF*, really. The software is self-explained, it works well, benefited from years of fine-tuning and bug-fixing, so I don't really 'need' to visit any support topic and fix more bugs really.

Pete, I don't really put the morality of my actions into question when it comes to SMF. I think I could afford to bash them for years before we're even. And I'm not even getting started with the bashing... ::)

ARG

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Re: "Paid for" shit & shame on the SMF team
« Reply #121, on August 4th, 2011, 06:37 PM »
Quote from Nao/Gilles on August 4th, 2011, 09:36 AM
Interesteding how it isn't allowed to discussing the upcoming Wedge when the up and coming xenForo was all the right over there?
http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=394724.0
http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=404068.0
XenForo was allowed because it is considered Premium (Paid) software and everyone now a days wants everything for free.  99% of SMF users are either low budget or perfectly content with free. SMF is not threatened by XenForo since it costs money, therefore allowing it to be included in discussion. If XenForo was free software it would have surly been removed from discussion the second Illori stumbled upon it, guaranteed.

 ;)


Nao

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runic

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Nao

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Re: "Paid for" shit & shame on the SMF team
« Reply #124, on August 4th, 2011, 10:05 PM »
You don't need to defend me. I could care less about my future at smf. I only care about the fact that they censor me, and without any notice.

Dismal Shadow

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Re: "Paid for" shit & shame on the SMF team
« Reply #125, on August 5th, 2011, 06:52 AM »
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He already was a shameless backstabbing jerk last year. He still is.
It's already been a year? Time sure flies.  :wow:
“I will stand on my ground as an atheist until your god shows up...If my irreligious bothers you much, and if you think everything I do is heresy to your god I don't care. Heresy is for those who believe, I don't. So, it isn't heresy at all!


   Jack in, Wedge,
   EXECUTE!

Nao

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Re: "Paid for" shit & shame on the SMF team
« Reply #127, on August 5th, 2011, 10:26 AM »
Quote from Arantor on August 4th, 2011, 11:00 AM
There was communication for a while. I did spend a while trying to talk Kindred round, far, far more than was ever really known.
Yeah, I remember all of that...
But these discussions came into a dead-end. We were so frustrated that, after another issue with credits, I did the only thing I could to show my discontent -- moving the SMF copyright to the credits page, which led him (and not anyone else) to remove me from the site credits.

So-- whatever he has to say about this... I don't see WHERE exactly he put much effort into helping us. To me, it seems like he never planned to help, and decided to hide behind the 'SMF team majority' crap to justify not helping.
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:lol: This is the SMF team we're talking about here. Making rules clear? The only time I ever saw clarity in the rules are when there was a fuss made about mods that had adult site links, and Unknown understandably got very annoyed with it.
Which reminds me that we should discuss this matter for Wedge Media... I could care less about these links really. But were I to provide them as mods, hmm... That would overwrite the custom list or something.
[OT] Oh, and which makes me think -- I don't know if there's still a point in having the sitelist auto-update itself. The online video landscape has shown a few clear leaders (YouTube, Dailymotion...), they're the ones that we should be careful about. Other sites, well, if they break, people can afford to wait for a few weeks to get a new Wedge update with new links...
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I have nothing to disagree with here, except what we should do about it. Instead of any further retaliation, let's instead do the one thing they can't prevent from doing: making Wedge better and better.
It's always been the plan... :P
SMF flames are just an aside for me, eh ::)
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I think the difference is, because you'd been post-banned, you wouldn't have been able to reply to a message, so they figured they wouldn't bother.
I can reply in plenty of places -- Bryan's place, SMF-friends, etc...
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Of course it does. It also means there is a free competitor to vbgamer's paid stuff. I wonder whether he will be encouraged to make it free once AeMe disappears.
Nope. SMF Gallery has been around from 2006 to 2008 without any competition (except external bridges), it already had both free and paid versions, the addition of SMG didn't change that. I originally told vblamer that I'd only keep working on SMF Gallery Pro if he made it free because SMG was a worthy competitor and I'd rather work on a free project rather than *for free* for *someone* who makes money by himself. Since he refused, I joined SMG. I guess he'd have been more inspired to either make his software free, or offer to pay me to stay... :lol: (I'd have said no, though. I didn't need the money at the time. I'm more in need of money these days but I still have a will of iron, ah ah.)

Anyway---- SMG was out, and quickly surpassed the 'quality' level of SMF Gallery Pro -- we saved SMF users a grand total of $80 by giving them an alternative to that piece of crap[1]. And that's what is making SMF look good these days, too -- none of the free forum software offers a free gallery system that is as complete as SMF's Aeva Media. That's the whole thing, the whole point. None of the other free devs was crazy enough to spend two years on a project that could not be monetized in a realistic way.

That's one of the major strengths of SMF, and they're not willing to lose it. Otherwise I'd have been perm-banned all the same...
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Fuck. I don't even know why I still have AeMe online over there...
Neither do I.
 1. It's not a piece of crap because of its feature list, which is actually pretty much on par with SMG/AeMe when it comes to SMF Gallery Pro, but because of the crappy code. Erk. An abomination.
Because it raises awereness of Wedge.
What do you think! They can keep Aeva Media as long as they also give me free reigns to advertise its upcoming upgrade. What I've been doing on that page is totally legal, heck. *AND* it breaks absolutely none of their Core Values (to which they could pretend I'm tied to, even though I never was made an official teamie), and none of their written rules.

The rest is ego wars and solo decisions -- like Kindred's decisions to censor me.
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Even my posts. They're not contributions. Give that to a lawyer, anyone will laugh at them.
Remove my 6000 posts, guys. It's my right. I wrote them, I own them. I don't owe you shit.
The team will argue that they are contributions under the CLA. I already had this argument with them.
Well, if they go that way, they could also argue that Aeva Media is a contribution, lol...
No, they still don't own my stuff. They can own my posts written on the dev boards, my posts on the beta page, all of my posts related to SMF's development, no problem. But posts related to Aeva Media and stuff? No thanks. I own them. And if I ever take down AeMe from their page, I don't see why these posts should remain online.
Re: "Paid for" shit & shame on the SMF team
« Reply #128, on August 5th, 2011, 10:28 AM »
Quote from live627 on August 4th, 2011, 11:07 AM
I would suggest to remove the files, blank the page, then delete, no,sorry, remove it from the list. Possibly even wipe the actual post, if a post-ban didn't remove that ability. So as to maximise the damage, so to speak.
I have no ability to edit or delete any of my own posts. I can't reply to PMs either, and I can't even read the PMs I sent in the past... (Because of a beautiful SMF bug that I fixed in Wedge. Uh.)

Arantor

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Re: "Paid for" shit & shame on the SMF team
« Reply #129, on August 5th, 2011, 10:45 AM »
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Yeah, I remember all of that...
But these discussions came into a dead-end.
Yes, but I'm talking about a series of discussions that occurred *after* you and I tried talking to Kindred originally. But even then, I came to realise how much I was wasting my time.
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I don't see WHERE exactly he put much effort into helping us. To me, it seems like he never planned to help, and decided to hide behind the 'SMF team majority' crap to justify not helping.
I don't honestly care what his actual intentions were, but it seemed to me for much of the time as though it were lip-service.
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Which reminds me that we should discuss this matter for Wedge Media... I could care less about these links really. But were I to provide them as mods, hmm... That would overwrite the custom list or something.
Well, I remember that I was the one who approached you about the adult links in Aeva at the time, because that's the only issue that was raised; it wasn't about censorship at all, simply that sm.org is a family friendly environment and that all mods on it should be equally family friendly.

I won't get into the full debate on that one, either.

On the subject of the sitelist, I'm inclined to agree with you; while it could be folded into the scheduled tasks, it seems like it should just be removed.
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SMF flames are just an aside for me, eh
Just a case of keeping eyes on the prize, you know?
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I can reply in plenty of places -- Bryan's place, SMF-friends, etc...
Sure you can, we both know that. But I get the impression that the mentality from the team was 'he can't reply, so why bother telling him?'
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Nope. SMF Gallery has been around from 2006 to 2008 without any competition (except external bridges), it already had both free and paid versions, the addition of SMG didn't change that.
True enough. I half wonder if someone else will take up the mantle of a new gallery mod as, if and when Aeva Media disappears from SMF's ecosystem, but realise it isn't my problem.
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Anyway---- SMG was out, and quickly surpassed the 'quality' level of SMF Gallery Pro -- we saved SMF users a grand total of $80 by giving them an alternative to that piece of crap
Is it $80 when you include the video addon module? I'd look but his immaturity has meant that he IP-banned most of the UK from smfhacks.com in an attempt to make me go away, and he's not worth the effort of finding a proxy (even if I can fire up a VPN in a matter of seconds)
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That's one of the major strengths of SMF, and they're not willing to lose it. Otherwise I'd have been perm-banned all the same...
So it being over there only benefits them, then? I know there's an argument about promoting Wedge, but you know as well as I do that they're only going to continue censoring.
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Because it raises awereness of Wedge.
What do you think! They can keep Aeva Media as long as they also give me free reigns to advertise its upcoming upgrade. What I've been doing on that page is totally legal, heck. *AND* it breaks absolutely none of their Core Values (to which they could pretend I'm tied to, even though I never was made an official teamie), and none of their written rules.
Sure it does. But only if the team doesn't keep censoring it. Most people don't leave sm.org, heck I'm not even that sure how many of them visited Noisen or here to be honest...

What you've been doing isn't "totally legal" - that's the point. It's fallen foul of several of the unwritten laws of SMF, for which the penalty is censure. Just because it doesn't fall foul of their published and public laws, doesn't mean it is legal, you know how good they are at reinventing and reinterpreting their own rules.
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They can own my posts written on the dev boards, my posts on the beta page, all of my posts related to SMF's development, no problem. But posts related to Aeva Media and stuff? No thanks. I own them. And if I ever take down AeMe from their page, I don't see why these posts should remain online.
They can and will argue that the posts document an extension to the SMF project and thus fall under the CLA. Been there, done that, already had that exact argument with Kindred. They will also argue that they should remain online for the benefit of any existing AeMe users.
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I have no ability to edit or delete any of my own posts. I can't reply to PMs either, and I can't even read the PMs I sent in the past... (Because of a beautiful SMF bug that I fixed in Wedge. Uh.)
And that's just stupid.
When we unite against a common enemy that attacks our ethos, it nurtures group solidarity. Trolls are sensational, yes, but we keep everyone honest. | Game Memorial

Lex

  • Posts: 31
Re: "Paid for" shit & shame on the SMF team
« Reply #130, on August 5th, 2011, 11:13 AM »
Did not read all of the above, forgive me - but it is my understanding that the CLA covers only contributions made knowingly and on purpose for the benefit of the project, and as such does not cover discussions and other OT material that were not meant for the project to use.

But, even so - I'd say anyone who has contributed to the community discussions, perhaps in thousands of support posts, knowingly doing that to help the users, would be / is an ass if they demand those posts removed later... Doing so does nothing but hurt the users.

Arantor

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Re: "Paid for" shit & shame on the SMF team
« Reply #131, on August 5th, 2011, 11:21 AM »
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but it is my understanding that the CLA covers only contributions made knowingly and on purpose for the benefit of the project
Yes, that's its intention. But because it's not the best worded definition in the world, it can be used for less honourable reasons, including referencing posts that don't fall under that intention, e.g. Aeva related posts. I have already argued this with Kindred in the past, and my posts were subsequently held hostage[1], even ones that were totally off topic and completely irrelevant to SMF such as in Chit Chat.
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I'd say anyone who has contributed to the community discussions, perhaps in thousands of support posts, knowingly doing that to help the users, would be / is an ass if they demand those posts removed later... Doing so does nothing but hurt the users.
So if the posts reference software that is not available any longer from that site, what good does it do the users to have that information available there?

Also please note, when I started removing my posts, one by one, I started with the oldest first, i.e. the ones least likely to be useful going forward.
 1. I don't have any other definition that suits.

Nao

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Re: "Paid for" shit & shame on the SMF team
« Reply #132, on August 6th, 2011, 09:45 AM »
http://www.bryandeakin.com/index.php/topic,941.msg9366.html#msg9366 (follow up)
Quote from Arantor on August 5th, 2011, 10:45 AM
I don't honestly care what his actual intentions were, but it seemed to me for much of the time as though it were lip-service.
"My hands are tied! I've got an executive job, but I can't do a thing without a 97% majority, meaning we're stuck in a time loop, SMF2 isn't coming out before 2027 and I don't know what's the point of my entire life! I'm drowning, help!"
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On the subject of the sitelist, I'm inclined to agree with you; while it could be folded into the scheduled tasks, it seems like it should just be removed.
Yup... I'm in the process of removing the updating. Well, it's done but I'm a bit lost with all the language strings :P
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SMF flames are just an aside for me, eh
Just a case of keeping eyes on the prize, you know?
Yes.
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I can reply in plenty of places -- Bryan's place, SMF-friends, etc...
Sure you can, we both know that.
YOU do that. :P I have to admit I don't go to these places, unless told to. :^^;:
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True enough. I half wonder if someone else will take up the mantle of a new gallery mod as, if and when Aeva Media disappears from SMF's ecosystem, but realise it isn't my problem.
Nobody will. The only realistic (?) solution would be for vblamer to resume work on SGL. But it's not in his interest!
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Is it $80 when you include the video addon module?
Yes. Otherwise it's $50.
And add another $50 for copyright removal. (But since I don't allow copyright removal from the free version of AeMe, I don't count that one in the price.)
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So it being over there only benefits them, then?
Hmm... Yeah.
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I know there's an argument about promoting Wedge, but you know as well as I do that they're only going to continue censoring.
If they do end up deleting all Wedge links (also see the topic at Runic's place), then it's war (again), and I'll remove AeMe and all of my other mods.
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Sure it does. But only if the team doesn't keep censoring it. Most people don't leave sm.org, heck I'm not even that sure how many of them visited Noisen or here to be honest...
Don't forget that out of all their members, 99% only visited a couple of times to ask a support question... And the vast majority of SMF admins doesn't even have an account at sm.org. They just (happily) lurk, like I lurked for 2 years before finally using my account over there. And the people currently looking into installing SMF2 and setting it up are poised to find out about AeMe because of the mod site, and thus hear about Wedge.
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What you've been doing isn't "totally legal" - that's the point. It's fallen foul of several of the unwritten laws of SMF, for which the penalty is censure. Just because it doesn't fall foul of their published and public laws, doesn't mean it is legal, you know how good they are at reinventing and reinterpreting their own rules.
Yuh.
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They can and will argue that the posts document an extension to the SMF project and thus fall under the CLA.
They could then say the same about Aeva Media -- except that it has its own license.
So why couldn't I have my own 'license' for posts?
Especially posts not related to SMF support...
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