Wedge

Right now it's a 2.1 alternative because most of what we want to do hasn't really been done yet... but it will.

The first step isn't writing sensible, understandable code, it's re-engineering the existing code to make more sense than it does now.

OK -- the first step is somehow creating sensible code, whether from scratch or as a rewrite of existing code and its accumulated hacks/cruft.

Which is what 2.1 should really be, ideally, fixing the bugs, adding the really important stuff (like IPv6 support), and clearing the legacy stuff, like the IE5 legacy code still lurking in SMF.

The difference is that 2.1 will be an SMF milestone but it's only part of the journey for us.

Why does AngelinaBelle make definitive comments here like she's part of the dev crew?[[1]

1.	Did I get the gender right?

Because she's part of the SimplePortal team?

I'm not part of the dev crew at SMF, though I sometimes participate in discussions with them.
I just know that the SMF devs will have to adress these exact same issues. It is only logical.
Just as it is only logical to assume they'll also have to adress IPV6 -- failure to do so would cause problems on oodles of forums.

I'm always curious, and I respect the experience of Arantor and Nao. I've read small swatches of Nao's AEVA code and enjoyed it, too. They seem to make a good team over here, and I wish their knowledge and experience were feeding directly into designing SMF. But I can't always get what I want.

And, thanks for asking, you did get my gender right.
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P.S. I am not making definitive statements about what dev team WILL do, only my opinions about what they will NEED to do. I cannot speak for SMF's dev team. Or for any other part of SMF or the SimpleMachines organization.  I'm apologize if I implied otherwise. Next time, I'll try to remember to say "I think they will need to do X"

To be fair, the SMF dev team have different issues to address than we do. IPv6 is one of the same issues we both have to address, but there's plenty that we need/want to tackle that SMF doesn't have to, nor need to.

All fascinating discussions.  Seriously. I miss you guys frequently. Even though, Arantor, you are kind of still there on the friends board to share your acquired knowledge and help out in crises.

The key qualifier missing from that statement was 'for now', because once 2.0 is done, there is no reason for me to visit sm.org, except what I've been doing a lot of lately - watching how badly a simple situation can be messed up.

Yes, I helped with the attacks earlier in the year, because it was in my interest as much as anyone else's to find something to stop the attackers dead, but that's about it as far as crises and help goes, and honestly, what reason is there for me to help the team any more? After everything that's happened, including the fact there are a few team members who, I understand, have admitted they are going to try and stop us, what possible encouragement is there for me to help? The only reason I have until now is a combination of frustration at you guys being a week late on your own deadline and STILL a little residual guilt.

It is not for nothing that our licence is going back to a variation of the SMF licence instead of remaining BSD. It is not for nothing that we have - currently - written exclusions into the licence specifically excluding certain sm.org members from using Wedge. It is not for nothing that Wedge even began.

After the licensing change promissed with SMF 2.0Final, my understanding is that any fork of SMF 2.0Final is OK.
Some team members are not the "official" team, or even all team members, anyway.
I know you and Nao are far better matched over here than either of you was at SMF.

It *IS* sensible to work together when two groups have a common interest.

If you do drop out of SMF completely with the 2.0 final release, I'll guess I'll really miss you. That's just a fact. No guilt. Of course, I've been totally missing Nao over there for some time.

Yup, we're aware of the licence change (I see the BSD licence is firmly in place in the source files now), but we made the decision to reclose the licence of Wedge for the forseeable future, to explicitly prevent our work going back the other way, because of everything that's happened. Once the code is far enough along that it can't just be reused without serious work, we'll look at that again.

The people I am referring to have team badges and thus are specifically team members at this time.

I'd also note that our interests and path is different to SMF's, we firmly dropped the idea of "being just a forum", which is why blogging support is built in, AeMe has been integrated (and will become deeper integrated) and so on. To me, this seems logical, to provide features that people want - I have yet to figure out what SMF is even going to implement in 2.1 other than jQuery and IPv6 support, and dropping IE6.

I should have dropped out of sm.org a loooooong time ago, I've been generally happier since I stopped posting for the benefit of others and to pass the time waiting for SMF 2.0 to get released.

You could vote for removing his ban over there. I'd start a poll in the friends area but I believe I'm hated by some team memers and won't attract enough attention. Even Tim's ban got removed and his friends badge was re-added.

I know Pete will disagree, but I've been considering the advancements in SMF2 compared to SMF1, and the advancements in Wedge compared to SMF2, and I can say without any hint of shame that Wedge can safely be considered as an alternative SMF3, rather than 2.1.
Just look at the feature list... We have nearly 50 major additions to the core. I doubt SMF2 has even half of that.Pete is doing the thinking :P
Being a visionary is his job, and he does it flawlessly. I do my part by working constantly on the codebase. I work by small improvements, while his fuel is full rewrites. I think it's great that we're so complementary on so many levels. We'd never dare to seriously question each other's work :)
I don't think it'll render them unusable, but some features will definitely fail (banning, IP tracking, etc.)
I'm not sure why Pete seems to think his work on IPv6 isn't done -- to me, it's certainly ready for release...? He worked a lot on it.Oh, I'm seriously ashamed of my Aeva codebase.... :^^;:
(I'd gladly blame it on Dragooon, but that would be unfair, since I know for a fact that I rewrote many of my own functions for Wedge :P)It's been said and done... SMF is a large team, while the dev team is small, and they make it very hard to join it, while at the same time not giving a damn about how little some of the devs do actual work.
I mean, it's always fascinated me that they all went on hiatus "until SMF's license is sorted out"... While at the same time, having no prior knowledge of the outcome of this, we worked hard for (what is now 9 months) on our fork.
Working on SMF is a privilege. I'm sad that the current team just doesn't seem to give much thought to it. They seem to think that SMF is in better hands by accepting only quiet people and rejecting the loud ones.
But when you do that, you also reject what makes these people loud: passion.

Wedge is the product of two loud people.Wedge.org is open to anyone, including SMF teamies. We don't consider their thoughts to be the thoughts of SMF as a whole. If Kindred or Oldiesmann were to join here though, they'd have to specify whether they're speaking their mind, or the team's.

BTW -- apart from a handful of SMF teamies, we don't have anyone we won't welcome here. As you may have noticed, some prominent SMF ex-teamies (mostly ex-devs, actually) have joined us and they're willing to help the project, for which we are very grateful. See, when I mention the horrible SMF team, I only speak about its representatives I dealt with, and the decisions they made by committee.
Wedge began because SMF was dead, it's that simple.
A year later, it's still just as dead. Feature-frozen for 3 years and a half means it froze to its death.
Now, if Wedge could inspire SMF teamies into keeping SMF up to speed, then we'd be thrilled. However, we don't want them to benefit from our work to get into that position. Not because of our feelings for SMF, but because of how they treated us -- saying they were unfair to us would be an understatement. A year later, I still feel sad about how they handled us. How they used us, too.

When time comes -- when Wedge gets its name on the map of forum software, we'll reconsider it.
As we said earlier, if the SMF team resigned en masse and gave us control over it, we would do it. Our only goal is to resurrect SMF and show the outstanding possibilities of its codebase. It's not an ego trip (fortunately. Working for 9 months on an ego trip would be a fabulous waste of time.)
We like controlling our own fates. We both had experiences in the past where we felt frustrated at not being able to tell our boss off (especially Pete). It's good to be in charge here -- and to have so many people trust us, so that it doesn't seem so bad to be under a Pete/Nao dictatorship (which is, ultimately, what this is.)I'm sure the SMF and Wedge communities will help each other and we'll see some good things happen. I'm sure of it.

BTW, what part of me did you miss? The angry outbursts? The French loveur cynical bastard? Or just the nice codebase? :niark:

I always thought the cynical bastard part was entertaining enough to keep me going over there even though I didn't need anything.  There were a couple times I thought "squirrel who lost his nut" but mostly just entertaining.  :)