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Plugin copyrights in the footer
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Arantor

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Plugin copyrights in the footer
« on January 13th, 2012, 10:22 AM »
I've been involved in this debate on sm.org, and I gotta say the way it's being handled is so badly trying to be grown up, but it falls short on more than one level.[1]

As I pointed out, not only did a suitable resolution not occur previously but their current stance of 'no little mods can do it' is actually worse than having a clear 'yes/no' rule, because what it means is that it's now totally subjective as opposed to reasonably objective.

So, I spent time thinking about this, and honestly the solution I'm most happy with is simply to disallow it entirely, at least on the public site that we operate in some fashion.

There's a credits page, use it, that's what it's there for. Sadly, I can fully imagine mods putting themselves into that page for every whiff and whim, but it's not the same as forcing into the footer on every page when it's not necessary or desirable. (It's not like there's actually room in any case)
 1. Like team members going round and saying things, then back-pedalling with "this is just my personal opinion". When you wear a team badge, you represent the team. Simple as that. If you're expressing a personal opinion, disclaim it up front. It's not hard.
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PantsManUK

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Re: Plugin copyrights in the footer
« Reply #1, on January 13th, 2012, 11:09 AM »
Agree entirely (and with your footnote). Have a credits/legal/whateveryouwanttocallit page that contains all that [crap] and keep the footer as clean (and brief) as can be.
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Arantor

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Re: Plugin copyrights in the footer
« Reply #2, on January 13th, 2012, 11:17 AM »
There is a credits page in place, there even is in SMF 2.0 but no-one uses SMF's, probably because on a technical level it's broken for mod purposes...

Nao

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MultiformeIngegno

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Arantor

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Re: Plugin copyrights in the footer
« Reply #5, on January 13th, 2012, 12:40 PM »
Should we have any kind of rules about what can or can't be in the credits page? I'd prefer to leave it a bit more unmoderated if possible, but I think it may require rules at some point >_<

Nao

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Re: Plugin copyrights in the footer
« Reply #6, on January 13th, 2012, 01:47 PM »
Rule #1: if you're Nao or Arantor, you can add up to 10 kilobytes of credits per plugin.

Rule #2: if you're not, then you may add up to 4 bytes of credits per plugin, or 10 bytes if you're showing them in a <div class="hide">.

I think that should cover for everythin'...

Arantor

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Re: Plugin copyrights in the footer
« Reply #7, on January 13th, 2012, 01:49 PM »
Aw, you're a bit mean, I was going to allow at least 16 bytes per plugin :P

I'm all for developers being credited for their work, I just don't want them to take the piss as they're currently doing for SMF.

Nao

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Re: Plugin copyrights in the footer
« Reply #8, on January 13th, 2012, 01:59 PM »
Quote from Lurker on January 13th, 2012, 01:49 PM
Aw, you're a bit mean, I was going to allow at least 16 bytes per plugin :P
Well, over 12 bytes they'd be tempted to add [url=][/url] to their credit... :niark:
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I'm all for developers being credited for their work, I just don't want them to take the piss as they're currently doing for SMF.
Sure.

Arantor

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Re: Plugin copyrights in the footer
« Reply #9, on January 13th, 2012, 02:05 PM »
Quote from Nao on January 13th, 2012, 01:59 PM
Well, over 12 bytes they'd be tempted to add [url=][/url] to their credit... :niark:
Unless they own a 1 letter domain name in a 2 letter TLD (i.e. something like t.co), 16 bytes doesn't help enough ;)
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Sure.
Especially because you know who the worst offender for footer copyrights is.

Nao

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Re: Plugin copyrights in the footer
« Reply #10, on January 13th, 2012, 02:14 PM »
Quote from Lurker on January 13th, 2012, 02:05 PM
Unless they own a 1 letter domain name in a 2 letter TLD (i.e. something like t.co), 16 bytes doesn't help enough ;)
Seriously though, I think a good guideline would be to simply say, "one line of credits"... Because Plugin credits are using a single column in the otherwise 2-column layout in this page, there's plenty enough place. And I suppose having 2 lines would be okay if justified -- we just don't want every single plugin to have several lines of credits or whatever.

Maybe we could give a helper function to add credits, instead of just a hook... (It would internally use the hook, of course.)
And/or maybe we could show plugin credits inline, instead of as an unordered list. Bit messy, that could be...
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Especially because you know who the worst offender for footer copyrights is.
Aeva Media and its stupid advertisement for Wedge! :eheh:

Arantor

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Re: Plugin copyrights in the footer
« Reply #11, on January 13th, 2012, 02:18 PM »
Quote from Nao on January 13th, 2012, 02:14 PM
Seriously though, I think a good guideline would be to simply say, "one line of credits"... Because Plugin credits are using a single column in the otherwise 2-column layout in this page, there's plenty enough place. And I suppose having 2 lines would be okay if justified -- we just don't want every single plugin to have several lines of credits or whatever.
If it uses an image pack or something similar, then I can understand 2 lines or so, one for the mod, one for the image pack. (WedgeDesk currently does this to credit the Fugue icons, as it is supposed to do)
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Maybe we could give a helper function to add credits, instead of just a hook... (It would internally use the hook, of course.)
And/or maybe we could show plugin credits inline, instead of as an unordered list. Bit messy, that could be...
I've thought about that, actually, because right now the credits are something of a wilderness; a plugin can theoretically override or remove other plugins' credits. On the flip side, moving it to a helper function that receives from hooks - but doesn't allow direct access to other credits runs the risk of creating duplicates if two mods use the same image set. (E.g. two mods use Fugue, you don't need two copies of the Fugue attribution)
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Aeva Media and its stupid advertisement for Wedge! :eheh:
Actually AM has always been pretty good about its footer, only activating when - you know - it's actually used on the page. Not what I was thinking of, and more importantly who refitted all the mods they acquired with stupid footer links that never used to be there.

Farjo

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Re: Plugin copyrights in the footer
« Reply #12, on January 13th, 2012, 03:40 PM »
Well that's the first time I've looked at / noticed the credits page! Will plugin writers be happy if their only mention is in an unused part of the site?

How about plugins that create their own section e.g. a links directory - should they be allowed a copyright at the bottom of their pages?

Assuming Wedge will have 'themes' will their creators be able to add their copyright? Some writers are very adamant on this!

Back to the credits page, how many of the existing names will you keep on yours?

Arantor

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Re: Plugin copyrights in the footer
« Reply #13, on January 13th, 2012, 03:49 PM »
Of the default 2.0 credits, the only things kept were the 2.0 dev people, those who had actually contributed to 2.0's dev in some material fashion.
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Well that's the first time I've looked at / noticed the credits page! Will plugin writers be happy if their only mention is in an unused part of the site?
It's also linked to in the footer as stated, quite visibly under 'Website Credits'. At this point I don't really care if plugin writers will be happy or not.

Really, it comes down to this: if you want to list it on the official site, then that's the rule to play by. Don't like it? Run your own mod site, then you can distribute what you like.
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How about plugins that create their own section e.g. a links directory - should they be allowed a copyright at the bottom of their pages?
As long as it's not in the master footer on every page, I don't really have a problem with this, though I'd still discourage it.
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Assuming Wedge will have 'themes' will their creators be able to add their copyright? Some writers are very adamant on this!
I'd say no more than one line of copyright.


You see, here's the line that's drawn: too many mods shove their copyrights in the footer on every page unnecessarily. If it modifies that page actively (i.e. more than just a new menu item) then I can see the rationale, but too many mods just shove it in regardless of how much code of that mod runs on that page. Never mind the fact that the footer isn't big enough to put much in the way of ads into anyway (and now file edits aren't possible in the core plugin manager, so you have even less opportunity to shove it in)

As far as I'm concerned, mod authors gave up the right to have their footer copyright when it started to be abused a couple of years back for SMF, when little mods that weren't used on every page got a footer copyright (and all the problems attached with it, like copyrights being left in when the mod is uninstalled, and/or install problems because of them), so because of everyone peeing in the pool, NO-ONE has the right to do so.

Nao

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Re: Plugin copyrights in the footer
« Reply #14, on January 13th, 2012, 03:54 PM »
Pete. Why would a hook be able to test for dupes more than a handler relying on a hook?

Farjo. The goal of credits is usually to spread links to your site. I assume people would be happy with a credit page that has exposure. Remember that Smf's credit page is well hidden, hence why no one uses it...
Themes I don't know about. Honestly I've never ever installed a third party theme on my sites.
We are keeping the usual SMF credits as you could see. We just shortened them (only kept the nicknames).
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