Removing deprecated code

Nao

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Removing deprecated code
« on May 6th, 2011, 05:09 PM »Last edited on February 20th, 2012, 03:09 PM by Nao
Feature: Removing deprecated code
Developer: Arantor & Nao
Target: admins, modders, themers
Status: 99% (believed to be complete, but it's a never-ending feature implementation because of its very nature.)
Comment:

We believe that software should live in the present, not in the past. Libraries that were deprecated years ago should not be supported anymore, because they mean overhead, bloat, and usually prevent developers from using new features, for fear of breaking something on older platforms. Because some people are too afraid of "fixing what isn't broken", they're still using PHP 4.x and MySQL 4.0 these days.
They shouldn't be afraid.
So we removed support for PHP < 5.1.2, MySQL < 4.1.2, and are requiring support for the GD2 graphics library (which shouldn't be a problem in 99% of the cases.)
Dozens of other minor libraries, functions and programming methods that didn't belong in this age were also deprecated, such as support for the Wap, Wap2 and iMode wireless modes, the boardmod installation system for add-ons, or older SMF1 compatibility code.

Re: Removing deprecated code
« Reply #61, on June 22nd, 2011, 12:49 PM »
I would also say 5.3 if Wedge was only for us, but as Nao says we need to think on the potential users.

After all, I only see here geeks answering.  :eheh:

I will never accept working with a hosting company if they don't provide the more up-to-date software, but I am not sure if noobs (more than 90% of the people) even know how to do that or if they have ever thought about it for a minute.

Re: Removing deprecated code
« Reply #62, on June 22nd, 2011, 12:51 PM »
Quote from Nao/Gilles on June 22nd, 2011, 10:54 AM
I've internally changed the minimum version to 5.2. Not much to change, actually... Our current code doesn't 'really' require 5.2+, it just could make use of that knowledge later on.
WePortal will be dissapointed.

Re: Removing deprecated code
« Reply #63, on June 22nd, 2011, 01:24 PM »
If there are important features that require 5.3 that's different.

If that's the case I will go then for 5.3 and keep those important features. Noobs will need to adapt (and/or we will need to be patient with them and teach them).

Re: Removing deprecated code
« Reply #64, on June 22nd, 2011, 01:36 PM »
There's nothing that we expressly need 5.3 for in Wedge right now, but that's not to say we have to leave it that way. There's plenty of time to change yet :)



Re: Removing deprecated code
« Reply #67, on June 22nd, 2011, 03:42 PM »
If the noob is a pretty girl, definitely yes. :eheh:

Otherwise, well... We've all been noobs at one point. But they're not our target audience, yeah. They're the audience we're going to redirect to SMF anytime we can.

Re: Removing deprecated code
« Reply #68, on June 22nd, 2011, 03:43 PM »
Quote
...is Wedge really trying to appeal to "noobs"?
No, but it's inevitable that noobs will use it anyway. Hell, before I got actively involved with SMF, I used to provide support for Sphinx, which is a search daemon. Clue's in the title; it's a daemon, which means it's running on shell, as a system service, and you will likely need to compile it yourself.

Yet, I heard people talking about running it on shared hosts and so on. Regularly.

If it turns out well, the name gets about, people will want to use it, noob or not.

The thing is, by making things more logical and run more smoothly, the odds are fairly in favour that it will be more noob friendly than SMF by accident anyway, even though we're not encouraging its use by such.

Re: Removing deprecated code
« Reply #69, on June 22nd, 2011, 03:50 PM »
Quote from Arantor on June 22nd, 2011, 03:43 PM
The thing is, by making things more logical and run more smoothly, the odds are fairly in favour that it will be more noob friendly than SMF by accident anyway, even though we're not encouraging its use by such.
One thing I think SMF is losing out on is its layout/UI for people actually browsing the site. How you edit your settings, make things appear/dissapear... It's just not self-explanatory enough. These people will be scrubs, and that is not going to change. SMF is "complicated" for all the wrong reasons. I do hope this is changed in Wedge, for sure.

But on the SysOP side I think it's better to not appeal to less skilled people, as they are very likely to "cost" more in support than they'll be able to "feed back". Then again, I'm not a good samaritan.

Re: Removing deprecated code
« Reply #70, on June 22nd, 2011, 03:56 PM »
I'm not sure I know exactly what you mean about 'making things appear/disappear'. But I certainly won't disagree that the admin panel is a clusterfuck of stuff that doesn't really make sense. 1.1 was better, 2.0 took everything in 1.1 and added more "stuff" to it and it's confused a lot of people, particularly the way permissions were done.

That said, you can't, realistically, have configuration options for every little thing: the admin panel already exceeds 100 1st and 2nd level menu items (which means you're basically talking ~90 pages of stuff, all told - first level items just display the first of an item's second level items)

There is a certain degree of value in 'less is more', in fact. Or at least, the perception of less stuff even if there's actually more stuff available to you.

Re: Removing deprecated code
« Reply #71, on June 22nd, 2011, 04:02 PM »
Quote from Arantor on June 22nd, 2011, 03:56 PM
I'm not sure I know exactly what you mean
One of my biggest disadvantages, I'm so unclear when I write.
Quote
about 'making things appear/disappear'.
Eh mostly I was talking about the "look and layout" tab. Many people have trouble even finding that in the default themes... But the other settings too are just "not easy to find" for new people.
Quote
But I certainly won't disagree that the admin panel is a clusterfuck of stuff that doesn't really make sense.
Too true. The admin panel is a clusterfuck but at least to me that doesn't matter as much as how the users perceive the site. It would be nice with a better ACP for sure though.
Quote
There is a certain degree of value in 'less is more', in fact. Or at least, the perception of less stuff even if there's actually more stuff available to you.
Oh definitely. There was a TED talk about this someplace. I'll see if I can find it...

Here: Barry Schwartz: The paradox of choice

Re: Removing deprecated code
« Reply #72, on June 22nd, 2011, 04:13 PM »
Quote from snoopy-virtual on June 22nd, 2011, 01:24 PM
If there are important features that require 5.3 that's different.

If that's the case I will go then for 5.3 and keep those important features.
Quote from Arantor on June 22nd, 2011, 01:36 PM
There's nothing that we expressly need 5.3 for in Wedge right now, but that's not to say we have to leave it that way. There's plenty of time to change yet :)
I was answering to this post by Dragoooon:
Quote from Dragooon on June 22nd, 2011, 12:51 PM
WePortal will be dissapointed.
It looks to me as it implies WePortal has some features that need 5.3 to work properly.

Re: Removing deprecated code
« Reply #73, on June 22nd, 2011, 04:21 PM »
Oh, that's a good lecture.
Quote
as how the users perceive the site
So, what is it you're asking for?

Re: Removing deprecated code
« Reply #74, on June 22nd, 2011, 05:39 PM »
Quote from Arantor on June 22nd, 2011, 04:21 PM
Oh, that's a good lecture.

So, what is it you're asking for?
I'm not really asking for anything. I'm waiting with hope for Wedge, to see how it looks, before I even say one thing about it. Let me just say that your notion of "less is more" resonates well with my ideals as well. :)

Re: Removing deprecated code
« Reply #75, on June 22nd, 2011, 05:48 PM »
That's the thing: the admin panel is still very much in flux. There will be a LOT more in it than there is in SMF's, simply because we've added more to it than we have taken out.

Right now it is basically just SMF's admin panel with half a dozen things gone and plenty more added. So, thus, my question stands: you've said that you see a problem with the look and layout options. What problem do you see? How would you resolve it?

I have my own ideas, some of which are fairly controversial on the subject of pruning the admin panel, so let's start on a smaller area...