« Great start !
Skin showdown
RSS feeds (Was: Some admin options required) »
Poll

What skin do you like best at Wedge.org?

Weaving (default)
17 (58.6%)
Wine
3 (10.3%)
Warm
0 (0%)
Wuthering
6 (20.7%)
Whyohwhydoyouhavetoask?
3 (10.3%)
Total Members Voted: 26

Nao

  • Dadman with a boy
  • Posts: 16,082
Re: Skin showdown
« Reply #30, on August 26th, 2012, 11:54 PM »
I'll resume work on this topic tomorrow, ah ah...
Quote from spoogs on August 26th, 2012, 05:04 PM
Honestly wish I could explain. The overall look and feel of the theme just does it for me. I never thought I'd be a fan of the sidebar on the right but it seems right at home. I can safely say however it's not just a font thing, the colours compliment each other nicely as well.
Even if the paddings and margins are awfully done?
Quote
Hmmmm did the Skin Selector always take us to http://wedge.org/do/skin/
I seem to remember it just changing skins on the fly keeping us we were, meaning if I'm viewing a topic and changed skins I would still be viewing that topic.
Yeah, sorry, a wrong manipulation on my side -- I overwrote a file with a version that wasn't my custom one.
See, until now the skin selector would add a variable at the end of the URL and redirect to that. I didn't like it for two reasons: (1) the variable had 'theme' in it, which is basically a 'temporary' setting for the current session, so it could generate situations where you get two different skins on two different browsers at the same time, (2) well, it adds too much code to the HTML... Even if it's at the end, which is fine usually, it's still extra bandwidth. So I chose a solution that will probably not work for everyone (if your antivirus removes your referer information, you'll be redirected to the skin selector instead of the current page), and may also not work correctly (it's possible that you'll be redirected to a page reloaded from cache, making it impossible to see the new skin without hitting F5.) But in all honesty, my Opera is set to ALWAYS load from cache, and yet the feature works for me every time.

Tell me if you have any problems with it... (I need to commit these changes.)

PS: just realized -- first at 11.111 posts! 8-)

spoogs

  • Posts: 417
Re: Skin showdown
« Reply #31, on August 27th, 2012, 04:47 AM »
Quote from Nao on August 26th, 2012, 11:54 PM
Even if the paddings and margins are awfully done?
Sure, no different from a beautiful house that just needs some touch up. I'm just going purely off what the naked eye sees, its a very nice theme to me and I'm guessing fixing the margins and padding would probably  make it a little nicer, no?
Quote from Nao on August 26th, 2012, 11:54 PM
Yeah, sorry, a wrong manipulation on my side -- I overwrote a file with a version that wasn't my custom one.
Ahah, just wanted to make sure my mind wasn't playing tricks on me
Quote from Nao on August 26th, 2012, 11:54 PM
See, until now the skin selector would add a variable at the end of the URL and redirect to that. I didn't like it for two reasons: (1) the variable had 'theme' in it, which is basically a 'temporary' setting for the current session, so it could generate situations where you get two different skins on two different browsers at the same time, (2) well, it adds too much code to the HTML... Even if it's at the end, which is fine usually, it's still extra bandwidth. So I chose a solution that will probably not work for everyone (if your antivirus removes your referer information, you'll be redirected to the skin selector instead of the current page), and may also not work correctly (it's possible that you'll be redirected to a page reloaded from cache, making it impossible to see the new skin without hitting F5.) But in all honesty, my Opera is set to ALWAYS load from cache, and yet the feature works for me every time.

Tell me if you have any problems with it... (I need to commit these changes.)
Seems to be working just fine now :cool:
Quote from Nao on August 26th, 2012, 11:54 PM
PS: just realized -- first at 11.111 posts! 8-)
Next stop 22.222 :P
Stick a fork in it SMF

Nao

  • Dadman with a boy
  • Posts: 16,082
Re: Skin showdown
« Reply #32, on August 27th, 2012, 09:40 AM »
For those who have issues with the sidebar position -- I modified Wine and Warm to use the same as the others.
Total time taken: 2 seconds per file :P (changing 'left' to 'right' in the options file.)
Posted: August 27th, 2012, 07:27 AM
Quote from Nao on August 27th, 2012, 07:27 AM
Total time taken: 2 seconds per file :P (changing 'left' to 'right' in the options file.)
Oh BTW I quickly changed it back to have the sidebar on the left and the avatar box on the left (instead of on the right), just in case what bothered you guys wasn't the sidebar position, but instead the avatar position (I'm aware that it can be disturbing, cf. phpBB3.)
Re: Skin showdown
« Reply #33, on August 27th, 2012, 02:25 PM »
Quote from Nao on August 26th, 2012, 10:49 PM
IE9 + Win7 working fine... :-/
I don't know, try to reload the cache or somethin'...
Deleted Temporary Internet files including Cookies. Restarted laptop etc. Problem stays.
Started Windows 7 in VMware Workstation. Problem with Wuthring in IE 9 is present.
Started Windows 8 (CP) in VMware Workstation. No problems with Wuthering in IE 9 and IE 10

There must be something different between de Windows versions. But what? They all run on de same laptop, they all have the same NOD32 AV running, they all have Java installed etc.
And why is the problem in Wuthering and not the other skins? If  I understood correctly they all run the same code for the drop down menu's.
:hmm: Interesting.
Quote
Quote
Specific? Hmmm that's hard. It's just the overall looks.
But I like for instance the squares around de headers in the side menu. It's clear what is what in a blink of the eye.
Like in Wine..?
Yes, those too.

Woke up with a headache which is worsening, so thinking and testing halted for now.

Nao

  • Dadman with a boy
  • Posts: 16,082
Re: Skin showdown
« Reply #34, on August 28th, 2012, 04:49 PM »
IE9 sucks.
Unlike what the giant HD ad said at the theater right before the DKR movie. I was expecting someone to have a good laugh in the room but everyone was watching candidly, ugh.

So... Because I can't reproduce on my system, I'm not going to bother, if you don't mind.
Re: Skin showdown
« Reply #35, on August 28th, 2012, 07:48 PM »
Oh, bugger... I'm having problems with page 2 of this topic. It just doesn't output anything.
I tried to reduce the number of posts shown. If I show 13 posts, it works. If I show 14, blank page.
It doesn't seem to be related to the post content. Probably a server timeout I'd have said, but it usually sends the blank page immediately, not after a certain delay... :-/
Quote from Oracle on August 26th, 2012, 06:41 PM
Quote
Because we have to balance a goal that a lot of people seem to have forgotten.
-   I’m acutely aware of what your trying to achieve with balance. As for my suggestion Im not fussed one way or the other, however I still see it’s only cosmetic and not that big a deal... certainly not change for change sake. Most if not all forums UIs do look outdated and as though they were modelled a decade ago. I still feel that’s reason enough to take on a new look particularly in Wedges case..” To give Wedge a bit of an Edge”
As I said, you can look into Vanilla if you want a different layout... Or BBPress, mostly for its homepage. (Which always makes me think of Bloc's Simplicity, too...)
But it doesn't mean it's any better.
Wedge's layout is the same as your usual forum, except that it tries to simplify it.
The opposite being vBulletin, which is so full of crap, it became funny at some point. (Clearly software that wasn't made by designers...)
Quote from Oracle on August 26th, 2012, 06:41 PM
-   Disagree. How do you explain the mass exodus from My Space to Facebook &Twitter for that matter. All their members ride the wave of popularity not because they’re stuck in the past but because they embrace change,
The Facebook story is special in its own way... Heck, that story was even worth an Academy Award :P
The same happened with Twitter: the website attempts to lure in the 'decision makers' and influential users (in the case of Facebook, it was Harvard grads then Ivy League grads then college grads etc... For Twitter, it was web designers first, then movie/music stars, then their fans.)
Basically, people don't come to Facebook or Twitter because they 'like it better', they come because someone they like is on it (possibly because they thought it was better, most likely because they didn't know better), then they bring in their family, etc... The more people were in, the easier it was to get more people to join.

MySpace is a good example of a website that stole the lightning from other sites (like Friendster), mainly because of its name (reminded people of piracy), and focus on music artists (see, Facebook made sure to replicate MySpace's music features to lure them in). Then MySpace lost its market shares because it simply sucked. But there's a huge difference between bad management/bad designers (which is the reason MySpace fell) and Facebook actually being great... No, it was just 'better' because, at least I'm talking as a web designer, it was important to impose a visual layout that couldn't be modified by users -- it gave its identity to Facebook, while MySpace didn't have an identity, only badly made web pages.

So... To sum up: people don't jump ship because they embrace change -- they jump ship because they find a better solution that is usable without a steep learning curve.
Quote
-   Here’s a thought...Why so much focus on Logotype development and not as much on UI...they lend themselves to defining Wedges identity. Their importance in terms of defining Wedges marketability is of equal significance as is the performance of the product?
I work on the logo on my spare time, i.e. it's not as important as Wedge itself, but sometimes I need to relax so I'll just play a quick Spider Solitaire or a Scrabble on my iPhone or look into the logo and try to make changes to it.
It's just plain fun for me.
Working on redoing the UI from scratch? Not so much... All forum software share a common root for a very good reason: if you were to redo it from scratch, you'd iteratively come up with exactly the same results, months later. Because there's only so many ways you can present a list of messages with a userbox next to it...

Arantor

  • As powerful as possible, as complex as necessary.
  • Posts: 14,278
Re: Skin showdown
« Reply #36, on August 28th, 2012, 08:01 PM »
Quote
Because there's only so many ways you can present a list of messages with a userbox next to it...
It's funny, I thought I'd already made this point?
When we unite against a common enemy that attacks our ethos, it nurtures group solidarity. Trolls are sensational, yes, but we keep everyone honest. | Game Memorial

Nao

  • Dadman with a boy
  • Posts: 16,082
Re: Skin showdown
« Reply #37, on August 28th, 2012, 08:02 PM »
Quote from Bloc on August 26th, 2012, 07:35 PM
Out of curiosity..which ideas would that be? I know you are protective of Wedge, but if you feel I *take" things from it, I'd like to be informed about that - so that I at least can *not* do that anymore lol. On the other side..if its some design bit you feel is whats been taken, it may not have been even conscious. I have actually been trying various stuff over the years, most of which didn't catch on, but nevertheless was interesting to explore.
I wouldn't say you took ideas from Wedge. And I probably took ideas from you, too, without realizing.
Perhaps Pete remembered the mention I made about your last ViennaBBS theme, with its use of Segoe UI everywhere, as I commented that my local install was a Segoe UI and I was planning to commit it, and then you came and made it look like I'd taken the idea from you ;)

Of course, there are not exactly so many 'usable' webfonts around... My choices are limited to Arial/Helvetica (the most commonly used font online, I believe), Tahoma (with a fallback for bold and italics), Verdana (not so fun these days), Segoe UI (with an Arial fallback), Calibri (with a fallback on the x-height compatible Source Sans Pro -- one of my favorite solutions actually), Georgia (not a good idea to use it across the entire UI...!), or embedding a lightweight one-size-fits-all webfont like Droid Sans, Open Sans or PT Sans (not so light though this one). But it's a bad idea to embed a font by default, it should be seen only on specific forums, so it's a no-go for me.
Quote
Actually, when I made Curve it was far from boring lol. I was very excited
The padding work was what was exciting to developers at the time -- probably because of increasing resolution statistics.
Also -- round corners. But it was long before CSS3 came into play, so it wasn't exactly a fun implementation...!

You must not have had fun making it IE6 compatible! Or maybe other people did all the work on that..?
Quote
You see more VB clones than SMF2 clones, but still SMF 2.0 is popular.
I have to admit to something strange though... If I see a lambda forum running a stock phpBB, that's okay. If I see it running a stock SMF2, it strikes me as odd. Probably because I see it as a rip-off of the main SMF website...
So it could either be fixed (in my mind) by using a different theme on sm.org than the default, or providing a much simpler skin for SMF2 and setting it to the default, while still providing Curve as an aside. But it's not a realistic solution...
Thing is, the more complex/convoluted a default theme, the more shocking it is when everyone starts running it.
It's one of the reasons I wanted to simplify Wine (and came up with Weaving), but it's even worse than that -- I'm actually wary (weary?) of seeing Weaving used on other sites...!
Heck, if anything, I should provide a huge box at install time, with the text "Please change the default colors! What do you want? Yellow? Green? Blue? Violet?"...
Quote
Blue is a calm color, it gives off a sense of stability and strength that no other color can match.
SMF caught my attention because of Themis and Babylon. I don't think they were blue...? I'm not sure anymore. I think they were maroon or something. You wrote both, IIRC?
Quote
And...adding a sidebar isn't really that innovative, despite what you might think.
Adding the sidebar wasn't meant to be innovative.
Forcing it on the user, though, was rather innovative I'd say. And still providing a way to put it away -- by reducing the window width -- is even better.

I've never been fully happy with the contents of the sidebar, though. I'd like it to remain more consistent across pages.
Quote
Portal mods have been indulging in them for years. While its certainly fresh to use them to attaching links and info related to your current whereabouts in the forum, its not new as such. I did that with the Simplicity theme for SMF 1.1, over 6 years ago. It was interesting then, but Simplicity theme was maybe too much at the time.
Never used it, but I still remember it fondly.
Posted: August 28th, 2012, 08:01 PM
Quote from Arantor on August 28th, 2012, 08:01 PM
It's funny, I thought I'd already made this point?
Probably!
Posted: August 28th, 2012, 08:02 PM

Oh, and once again, your post didn't bring up a warning on my side when I posted my message!

And what do you think of the crash bug?

Arantor

  • As powerful as possible, as complex as necessary.
  • Posts: 14,278
Re: Skin showdown
« Reply #38, on August 28th, 2012, 08:10 PM »
Quote
Oh, and once again, your post didn't bring up a warning on my side when I posted my message!
Check your look and layout preferences, you might have turned it off sometime. It does still do it for me AFAIK.
Quote
And what do you think of the crash bug?
Hmmm, nothing in the error log. Is it absolutely reproducible? If so, turn on the debugging info and take a look at what happens.

Nao

  • Dadman with a boy
  • Posts: 16,082
Re: Skin showdown
« Reply #39, on August 29th, 2012, 01:36 PM »
Quote from Arantor on August 28th, 2012, 08:10 PM
Quote
Oh, and once again, your post didn't bring up a warning on my side when I posted my message!
Check your look and layout preferences, you might have turned it off sometime. It does still do it for me AFAIK.
"Warn on new replies made while posting." is checked. It was also checked last week when this happened again.
And yet -- once, between these two dates, I did get a notification. It's like it's doing it on a whim...!
Quote from Arantor on August 28th, 2012, 08:10 PM
Quote
And what do you think of the crash bug?
Hmmm, nothing in the error log. Is it absolutely reproducible? If so, turn on the debugging info and take a look at what happens.
But debugging won't show anything -- because the page is empty in the first place. Completely blank.
Or more precisely, it was yesterday... Today, it seems to be showing to me.
Page created in 0.16 seconds with 28 queries.
(DR: 0.03 seconds with 3 queries.)

Arantor

  • As powerful as possible, as complex as necessary.
  • Posts: 14,278
Re: Skin showdown
« Reply #40, on August 29th, 2012, 02:24 PM »
Quote
But debugging won't show anything -- because the page is empty in the first place. Completely blank.
Little known fact: debugging mode also turns on error_reporting so errors aren't captured and hidden away...

Nao

  • Dadman with a boy
  • Posts: 16,082
Re: Skin showdown
« Reply #41, on August 29th, 2012, 02:55 PM »
Isn't it already on..?

Arantor

  • As powerful as possible, as complex as necessary.
  • Posts: 14,278
Re: Skin showdown
« Reply #42, on August 29th, 2012, 06:47 PM »
Huh, it is on. What about the server error log then?

godboko71

  • Fence accomplished!
  • Hello
  • Posts: 361
Re: Skin showdown
« Reply #43, on August 29th, 2012, 08:32 PM »
Odd thing on page two on my iPad 2 I could not see the page (Safari & Chrome) the other day, however on PC (Chrome & Firefox) I could/can. Meant to mention it then however until Nao said something I thought it was something funky on my end.
Thank you,
Boko

markham

  • Finally finished the Slideshow... phew!
  • Posts: 138
Re: Skin showdown
« Reply #44, on August 30th, 2012, 02:47 PM »
Quote from Nao on August 26th, 2012, 12:09 PM
Johnny, you didn't tell us what your browser is... (And version!)

Also, to agent47, Johnny54, markham, spoogs: can you try and be more specific about what you like in Wuthering? I swapped the fonts (Segoe UI / Arial) for Weaving and Wuthering yesterday to, maybe, help you determine if this is due to the font choice. (You can easily switch between fonts with developer tools like Firebug or Dragonfly, of course.)
Quite simply I prefer Wuthering's layout and colour scheme; for me, it is the easiest on the eye. It is really as simple as that.
« Great start !
RSS feeds (Was: Some admin options required) »