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Messages - Arantor
6841
Other software / Re: Nao in SMF2 Credits
« on August 4th, 2011, 02:27 PM »
Yeah, we knew about it. I'm there too, incidentally, under Customizers.

Had it not happened, I think there'd have been more vocal commentary about it...
6842
Other software / Re: "Paid for" shit & shame on the SMF team
« on August 4th, 2011, 12:59 PM »
Either that or not give them yet another excuse to throw insults etc. in our direction. There is something to be said for leaving it there in that respect, shows you're taking a moral higher ground. But I'm surprised it's still there to be honest.
6843
The Pub / [Archive] Re: Logo Madness
« on August 4th, 2011, 11:03 AM »
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Well that's the point of the bubble: it represents a conversation (a forum), and it can contain anything. Well I suppose a couple of our talented artists around here will enjoy giving it a try at the very least.
Sure, I got the reference from that. But when I first saw the second image, I immediately thought of the small similar icon in the Fugue icon set and wondered for a moment if it had actually been enlarged from that first.

While it provides interesting food for thought, I can't escape the feeling it will always be too generic and the stylising that indicates 'Wedge' wouldn't ever be too pronounced on it. Don't know, will have to see what the very creative people here come up with.
6844
Other software / Re: "Paid for" shit & shame on the SMF team
« on August 4th, 2011, 11:00 AM »
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They don't communicate at all.
The only thing I know is that they censor our stuff.
If that's their way of sharing their feelings.....
There was communication for a while. I did spend a while trying to talk Kindred round, far, far more than was ever really known. But so many times I found myself banging my head on my desk because he and I never saw eye to eye on anything.

I didn't mention this much before because in the place it happened in, only 4 people had access to the board, and all of us agreed up front that we wouldn't mention it to anyone else, in the hope we could avoid bias and getting off topic. The fact that absolutely nothing changed and the fact that I said to Kindred multiple times that I had the feeling he was just participating for the purpose of keeping up appearances of listening, and that nothing I was saying was getting through, should have been a clue really. His response to my such comments was simply that 'just because my opinion disagreed with his didn't necessarily mean he had to do anything about it' or words to that effect.
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Then they should make it clear.
:lol: This is the SMF team we're talking about here. Making rules clear? The only time I ever saw clarity in the rules are when there was a fuss made about mods that had adult site links, and Unknown understandably got very annoyed with it.
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It's as if it were Jan' 10 again. This time it's 'them' versus Nao, Pete, and all of our ex-teamie friends who felt that Wedge was the only future for SMF. Difference being, at the time the exes were working Jaelta but it never worked out. This time it's called Wedge and it's a real threat to SMF.

They only forgot one thing in this.
In both situations, Jan 10 and Aug 11, the splits happened because the SMF team abused some people (either by forcing them to sign a stupid paper, or exploiting them over and over again), so the SMF team only has ITSELF to blame for.
Actually, the simple fact that they're censoring the Wedge links right now, shouldn't be compared to their relationship with competitors -- it should be compared to how they used to ban people on a whim during the Jan/Feb flame war.

In three words: step back, guys.
I have nothing to disagree with here, except what we should do about it. Instead of any further retaliation, let's instead do the one thing they can't prevent from doing: making Wedge better and better. The better we make Wedge, the stronger it stands on its own - and people will notice it and use it.
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But you at least had the courtesy of being contacted about it.
I was not. All of my stuff was always erased behind my back. My signature ---- multiple times --- my website link and my AeMe links.
I know, and I complied - initially, but fired back a message trying to make some sense out of it.

I think the difference is, because you'd been post-banned, you wouldn't have been able to reply to a message, so they figured they wouldn't bother.
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Basically, they WANT AeMe in SMF because it gives their software an edge over the competition. But they don't want to compete with Wedge, which is actually the future of both AeMe and SMF.
Of course it does. It also means there is a free competitor to vbgamer's paid stuff. I wonder whether he will be encouraged to make it free once AeMe disappears.
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Fuck. I don't even know why I still have AeMe online over there...
Neither do I.
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Even my posts. They're not contributions. Give that to a lawyer, anyone will laugh at them.
Remove my 6000 posts, guys. It's my right. I wrote them, I own them. I don't owe you shit.
The team will argue that they are contributions under the CLA. I already had this argument with them.
6845
The Pub / [Archive] Re: Logo Madness
« on August 4th, 2011, 10:13 AM »
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@Pete> Err... Well, I suppose the logic of it made sense by then. But right now I just hate that green logo
Yeah, I'm the sort of person who habitually finds 'hidden meanings' in things. It's why I tend to overanalyse Doctor Who the way I do.
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I have an 'idea' of a nice little symbol which would both represent Wedge as a simple machine *and* a forum (which SMF never did in its logo, eh.)
The logo represents a simple machine; it's about them and their commitment to keeping it simple. I think. I think it's also related to the fact that they never planned to be just about forums.
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A speech bubble, where the tail is directed towards the word 'wedge', and the tail itself is a wedge coming out of the bubble. Or, alternatively, is a wedge going inside the bubble, but it's harder to make it stand as a speech bubble then.
Interesting idea. The problem is that it can look very generic and no amount of stylising it is going to change that fact.
6846
The Pub / [Archive] Re: Logo Madness
« on August 4th, 2011, 09:57 AM »
It's not about being excited per se - more that, to me, it said what we were about by being more abstract than the original logo ideas. The others were good, but to me they seemed held back by the metaphors contained in them, the whole 'wedge' thing was too obvious, as opposed to something less absolute and more capable of being more things, greater than the sum of its parts if you will.
6847
Other software / Re: "Paid for" shit & shame on the SMF team
« on August 4th, 2011, 09:55 AM »
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Do we really NEED to be fair to them? Why do we always have to be the good guys, the ones that don't ban anyone, the ones that don't fight back?
I didn't say that we don't have to fight back, per se, but that if there is retaliation of any kind, it is done with the best information available, and that we do it as ethically as possible - which includes acknowledging their side to the situation.
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Like xenForo being an existing competitive software that was just about to be released...............
.........Tell me, isn't that what Wedge is about?
It comes under the category of what the opposition is doing, which is naturally allowed. The caveat of course is that 'as long as the competition isn't Wedge.'
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Interesteding how it isn't allowed to discussing the upcoming Wedge when the up and coming xenForo was all the right over there?
http://www.simplemachines.org/…unity/index.php?topic=394724.0
http://www.simplemachines.org/…unity/index.php?topic=404068.0

In contrast, no one seems to be bothered with Illori's outstanding post:
http://www.simplemachines.org/…sg3104124;topicseen#msg3104124
Yup. It's all fine for the team to go 'hey, look at what that other system is doing' to indicate how awesome it is, but all bets are off if it happens to be us, and that's always been, and always likely to be, the case.
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I don't mind if they remove our links, yes it's their website, yes they dictate the rules, like we do.
There's a difference between having rules, enforcing rules and telling your users about said rules. Like I said, there weren't any rules I'd been advised about prior to the message from Oldiesmann asking me to remove Wedge from my signature.

I'd have been fine to comply with rules if I'd seen a shred of evidence to validate the fact that this was a rule that applied equally to everyone, as opposed to what feels like it was made up on the spot.
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- their pseudo 'Core Values' page. They never stop violating most of them. As soon as a flame war erupts, they just don't give a shit about these 'values' anymore. I'm tempted to think no one in the team ever read them. If you're going to edict a series of rules to convince people you're so cool, then either live by them or die with them!
Oh, don't even get me started about the Core Values bullshit. I demonstrated that vbgamer had broken just about every single core value on the list, but every single point was argued - by Kindred, no less - as being not important.

After the January 2010 drama+BS, every returning and every new team member was supposed to electronically sign an agreement, including promising to adhere to the Core Values. You can obviously see how well that worked out.
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- all links to all other forum packages, including friendly forks and paid-for competitors. Otherwise it's clearly an attack against us.
Of course it is.
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But they don't acknowledge that.
If you did that, would you openly admit it? Or would you start explaining what the rules are before expecting people to follow them?

It's a bit like one of the episodes of the very first season of QI. It's an odd-one-out round and Phil Jupitus exclaims: "What kind of hellish quiz is this? Guess which one's the odd one out... haha, NONE of them!" People have a set of expectations, whether rightly or wrongly. Phil's expectation, for example, is that on a quiz show, the questions being asked should be feasible to answer and that in a round entitled the 'odd one out' round, one of them is demonstratably the odd one out compared to the others, i.e. that the rules as presented at the start are the rules actually followed later on.

Here, the only way I can see it is that they've taken a rule that was never fully explained, broadened its horizons to suit, and applied it to us. The best bit was that when I argued this originally, Kindred explained to me that the 'no competition' rule was something I should have known about at the time, because of the no-competitive-ads rule. At that point, I actually gave up trying to argue with him because the rules don't seem to apply in his brain properly.

Then you have things like: http://www.bryandeakin.com/index.php/topic,941.msg9346.html#msg9346 going on.

I'll let you make of that what you will, but for someone who hasn't told any actual lies, per se, I'd say he's done a decent bit of skirting the truth on occasion, and he has actually implicated RR in libel, on the basis of claiming that Les (ARG) was actually RR being a troll under another name. (Which means, if you're going to call someone out like that, you really, really should be able to back up your assertion especially when it doesn't take much to refute it.)
6848
Other software / Re: "Paid for" shit.
« on August 4th, 2011, 09:23 AM »
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Does ANYONE here think that I'm abusing my 'rights' by putting a link to wedge.org in my WEBSITE LINK? Which, as far as I know, is used by everyone to link to THEIR website? And does anyone here think that my website is anything else than wedge.org, considering I'm blogging here and I'm spending all of my days here?
Why are they not removing links to IPB, vBulletin or xenForo then?
To be fair to them, the only times I've seen a link to the competition sites, are:
1. In adverts, so that they can be banned via Google AdSense.
2. Pointing out something the competition have done, that's cool or neat, or stupid.

We present a new angle that they haven't had to deal with before. But the only rules that I can remember on the subject seemed to apply to paid ads - I do not remember being advised of any rules about this, until after we did it.

You're not abusing your rights: it's your website after all. But at the same time it is always going to be controversial - even if we'd ended up a totally friendly fork, I doubt they'd have let links be in there.

You know them: they'll make the rules to suit themselves, because that's what's always been done.

You know, it's almost as though those little things called Core Values don't really apply, even though they swore on some relation's digital blood that they'd follow them, or something.
6849
Development blog / Re: A nice kick in the CSS
« on August 4th, 2011, 03:06 AM »
Well, the converter IS that. Just the fieldset usage follows the UI conventions we've been using in the admin panel, i.e. fieldsets where it makes sense to do so.
6850
Features / Re: New revs
« on August 4th, 2011, 03:05 AM »
Revision: 905
Author: arantor
Date: 02:04:48, 04 August 2011
Message:
! Removed several settings that irritate me in the admin panel:
- Current theme / Show BBC buttons in PM and Post Pages; you'd control this from the BBC and smileys areas instead. (Class-Editor.php, Settings.template.php, Admin.*.php)

- Go up/down buttons (on by default instead now) (ManageSettings.php, ManageSettings.*.php, Help.*.php, Display.template.php, MessageIndex.template.php)

- Show current position as text in linktree (I cannot seriously imagine anyone actually using this. It sort of defeats the point of a *link* tree.) (upgrade.php, Settings.template.php, Themes.*.php)

----
Modified : /trunk/Sources/Class-Editor.php
Modified : /trunk/Sources/ManageSettings.php
Modified : /trunk/Themes/default/Display.template.php
Modified : /trunk/Themes/default/MessageIndex.template.php
Modified : /trunk/Themes/default/Settings.template.php
Modified : /trunk/Themes/default/index.template.php
Modified : /trunk/Themes/default/languages/Admin.english.php
Modified : /trunk/Themes/default/languages/Admin.french.php
Modified : /trunk/Themes/default/languages/Help.english.php
Modified : /trunk/Themes/default/languages/Help.french.php
Modified : /trunk/Themes/default/languages/ManageSettings.english.php
Modified : /trunk/Themes/default/languages/ManageSettings.french.php
Modified : /trunk/Themes/default/languages/Themes.english.php
Modified : /trunk/Themes/default/languages/Themes.french.php
Modified : /trunk/other/upgrade.php
6851
Development blog / Re: A nice kick in the CSS
« on August 4th, 2011, 02:46 AM »
A fieldset is an HTML-described container of tags, it puts a nice border around things.

Practical example: go to an SMF forum, Admin > Main > News and Newsletters > Settings, then open the permissions option for either of the options. You get a box containing the permissions appear - the nice border around it is a frameset.
6852
The Pub / [Archive] Re: Logo Madness
« on August 4th, 2011, 01:14 AM »
Hahaha, made me laugh.

I really should give this whole logo thing a go, I think...
6853
Off-topic / Re: IE users are dumb
« on August 4th, 2011, 01:09 AM »
No, there shouldn't. There isn't on SMF as standard, and if there was, it would imply that threaded discussions are possible (which they aren't) - the reply is to the entire thread, not to any individual reply.
6854
Development blog / Re: A nice kick in the CSS
« on August 4th, 2011, 12:08 AM »
Thorsten has indeed done a very, very nice job on this :)
6855
Off-topic / Re: IE users are dumb
« on August 3rd, 2011, 11:36 PM »
Apparently the study was fake: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/08/03/internet_explorer_iq_study_hoax/

Shame, because I'd love to have empirical evidence to support this conclusion.