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Messages - Arantor
376
Features / Re: Culmination of Permissions Ruminations
« on June 6th, 2013, 02:33 PM »
They did, for the simple reason that they all needed something SMF's couldn't provide. SMF, conceptually, offers 'everywhere' and 'in this board' permissions.

I've proposed in the past various ways to fix that, and solving it really isn't the big headache it sounds like. Right now we have the 'membergroup' and 'board' permissions. I see no reason why it needs to be a ball-ache to create other entire classes of permission.
377
Plugins / [Plugin] Re: Notifications system (1.0)
« on June 6th, 2013, 02:28 PM »
I have a solution for the whole local mailserver thing... it's called 'not worrying about it but making sure I have mail queue enabled'... because then I can see what entered the queue.
378
Off-topic / Re: A nice Wedge notice that I cannot duplicate
« on June 6th, 2013, 02:27 PM »
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See, Pete? I told you we DO have features that make people go HOLY SHIT... :P
I don't remember the last time I saw it though :-/
379
Plugins / [Plugin] Re: Notifications system (1.0)
« on June 6th, 2013, 04:31 AM »
Also, a way to clearly indicate 'click me for a preview' and 'click me to take you to the content you've been notified about'
380
Off-topic / Re: A nice Wedge notice that I cannot duplicate
« on June 6th, 2013, 03:03 AM »
A more thorough going over of the bbc parser and preparser will be needed at some point - you know, taking it out back, bending it over and giving it a good going-over... will help it a lot. :P
381
Off-topic / Re: A nice Wedge notice that I cannot duplicate
« on June 6th, 2013, 02:55 AM »
Yes, there is a feature to attempt to find missing bbcode tags and warn the user about it. In theory any mismatch of tags should prompt it except it doesn't always work as intended.

Quotes in particular are actually a bit fecked, as they are in SMF itself incidentally. There is all kinds of hidden logic buried deep in the parser about fixing improperly nested tags and there's actually bugs in SMF filed years ago as to the various problems it can cause, especially when it tries to fix table tags.

As far as the bbc parser is actually concerned your example above is quite legal because it will be silently fixed. :/
382
Off-topic / Re: Forum "persistence"
« on June 6th, 2013, 02:53 AM »
Interesting idea, very interesting.
383
Off-topic / Re: In Addition to Post Count - Power Ranking?
« on June 6th, 2013, 01:40 AM »
I'm trying not to be negative, I'm just wielding my weapon of choice, the Cold Hard Iron Bar of Reality ;) I think there is a lot of potential here but at the same time I can see it easily causing drama and putting off newcomers.

I find myself more and more curious about XenForo's approach, post count and stuff is hidden away until brought up with a popup, you only see avatar, title and name on the main view, heck even showing staff banners only came in as part of the upcoming 1.2 and then it's still modest rather than overbearing. The posh fancy-schmancy phrase which comes to mind is"delightfully minimalist" and it seems to work quite well.
384
Plugins / [Plugin] Re: Notifications system (1.0)
« on June 6th, 2013, 01:31 AM »
I've left a few notifications pending for a bit, partly to prove emailing them works and partly to see what happens when a user accrues a lot of notifications (11 unread so far), and the sense I'm getting is for a "mark all read" button.

Thoughts?
385
Off-topic / Re: In Addition to Post Count - Power Ranking?
« on June 6th, 2013, 01:28 AM »
Some very interesting ideas there, but they all seem to me to encourage post whoring, I.e. always trying to beat the top spot. Yes, it will likely encourage participation, but I'm not convinced it will encourage *good* participation if that makes sense?

I do like the imagination being shown here, this all sounds like a potential to shake up the status quo and possibly even be worth experimenting here as plugins for some of it to try and get an idea of how well it works in a real environment, especially since I'm the current top poster :niark: But joining a forum like this one where the lead posters are not merely thousands ahead but tens of thousands ahead (remember, top post count on sm.org is 51k, followed by 36k-odd for a couple then it dwindles into the 20k range and tails off) and you sort of think it could be a bad idea in the long run if not handled carefully. Log scaling would actually likely make it worse for the newcomers since the mountain looks potentially even higher if you're not careful.
386
Off-topic / Re: In Addition to Post Count - Power Ranking?
« on June 5th, 2013, 10:29 PM »
Quote from Nao on June 5th, 2013, 03:53 PM
A couple of weeks ago, I was looking into XF's trophy system, and tried to think of something for Wedge too, that would look a bit like it, but also be an indicator of someone's implication on a forum...
XF's is pretty customisable. I really must give you the details of my test site sometime so you can play with it and see what it does and doesn't offer. But 1.2 is a huge update coming soon.
Quote from Nao on June 5th, 2013, 03:53 PM
So, I started devising (additive) points attributed by post (1), thought (0.5), per direct post/thought reply (since we have this in the database) (0.5), likes (depending on what it being liked, I couldn't make up my mind), topic (I think I settled on 0.2 per reply to it), but then I decided awarding points to replies might encourage trolling.
That's the thing. Anything a user can do to manipulate their account can also encourage trolling. It was not entirely an oversight that the count of likes that a user has accrued is not stored or displayed. ;) It's trollable.
Quote from Nao on June 5th, 2013, 03:53 PM
Anyway, I couldn't settle on other things like points awarded for gallery albums and items, topic and profile views (minus bot visits), and more place-specific areas like uploading a plugin or theme here, or being marked as the one who successfully replied to a topic[1]
 1. That one is actually interesting; I forgot to mention that earlier, sorry. I mean, when I click "Mark as solved", it always says I marked it as solved, but I'd like to be able to mark someone else as the solver, so maybe we should have an "Accept answer" option per-post in solvable topics, so that we can properly 'thank' the one who actually solve your problem... Hey, why not..?
I didn't mention it in my review but it's actually an option in IPB to have that whole 'allow the topic starter to mark an answer as the best answer' deal. But that always seems to me like it should be a function of the topic solved plugin rather than a core feature.
Quote from Nao on June 5th, 2013, 03:53 PM
, so I just skipped to something else that needed my attention, so it's funny to see a discussion about something similar, but I don't really think it can be done, without at least giving the admin the ability to change the attributable points per item, and that's where it becomes complicated I guess. Ultimately, I wanted to see if we couldn't replace post-based groups with points-based groups, that is, awarding shy people for still being part of the community. But then, what prevents you from just Liking every single post in the forum..? A ban threat, maybe....? :lol:
Well, way way back I thought about doing criteria based groups, e.g. karma based groups, topic-count based groups etc. but I'm still not sure we actually need that if that makes sense.

I have this feeling that any such function beyond a fancy title is actually problematic.

The only difference is with reputation; you can give reputation but the amount of reputation you give is analogous to the amount of reputation you yourself have.

Does 'removing power to like' need to be a warning punishment?
Quote from Nao on June 5th, 2013, 03:53 PM
Anyway, that's where I was at that point, and I couldn't decide, so I think I added it somewhere in my to-do list, and you know the story about my to-do list... It grows about 5 times faster than it shrinks, so it's never ending.
Yeah, we know how that works :lol:
Quote from xrunner on June 5th, 2013, 07:32 PM
I hear ya Nao. But same thing with posts. What prevents you from posting replies to every single post in the forum to get your post count up? A ban threat maybe? :)
Nothing. Some people do do it on sm.org but a warning would help deal with that.
Quote from xrunner on June 5th, 2013, 07:32 PM
I guess it's that damn post count number. This person has 1,234 posts, that person has 456 posts, another has 2310 posts. After a certain amount, say ten or 100, do we need such an exact number to display? The exact number is almost meaningless as far as most members are concerned. Isn't it all relative at some point ... Oh maybe I got an idea ...[2] I'll get back this evening. :)
 2. I know, you thought you smelled smoke
But for every user for whom the precision is irrelevant, there is another where they want it. Especially if they're close to a milestone.
Quote from Hristo on June 5th, 2013, 10:00 PM
Personally I find all the Like/Reputation/Karma etc. systems I know more harmful than beneficial in long term. For example the 'Like' system used here. It works here because the forum is still small and the average active member level (as knowledge, attitude ect.) is way above the usual forum averages. But on most other forums such system after some time will induce an elitism - a group of popular members which get Likes even if they post "+1".
True but it's not actually as bad in reality as it might be. XenForo, for example, has half a million posts and a lot of likes (and AFAIK you can't disable them) and only some people elicit the whole insta-like... c.f. my comments about quasi-deifying the community leaders. That part isn't really healthy. But even a relative newbie like me can gain a few likes for a few posts as I demonstrated recently... it's a different place to hang out and I like some of the ideas and discussions, it's just nice to be in a different environment, you know?
Quote from Hristo on June 5th, 2013, 10:00 PM
Meanwhile most new members will not get a Like even if they post a scheme for working portable cold fusion reactor :). That is, most new members will feel unappreciated and will not post often or leave the forum. IMHO!

Now, maybe if there was a system which rewards those members whose topics/post induces traffic from search engines and/or from backlinks... maybe I would be interested in such function, or at least I would give it a try.

P. S. Excuse my (self learned :-/) English
There is: it's called topics that generate comments from new members. Topics that have a disproportionate number of people with < 10 posts posting in them. Usually they are announcements from the forum leaders who by definition don't really need the reputation anyway. There is a part of me that wants to brand this selfish or naive in some way too but without any real reason at this point in time as to *why*.
387
Features / Re: Culmination of Permissions Ruminations
« on June 5th, 2013, 09:55 PM »
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As you underlined an important thing would be to have groups able to inherit permissions (or whatever) when post count increases (i.e. 0+, 50+, 100+ as you described).
This is probably the most useful thing about post-based groups.
Not sure how else use them since I always prefer to set my permissions in stone. :P
I have in the past suggested just attaching min/max post counts to permissions and essentially leave post counts/groups as not having actual permissions.
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Move groups to a separate table is something I was considering me too, though I've never been in the mood of actually do it (mainly because I find a pita write the upgrade scripts... :angel: )
In our case there is still one place where we need primary groups, and that's to figure out what colour to assign to people, bah.
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That (having "regular member" lost when changing the primary group) is one of the things that confuses people more than anything else I think (at least it is frequently confusing for me :P).
It is confusing. It's one of the many exciting and confusing things about SMF.
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What I had in mind can be sort of summarised in two admin "roles": one that has access to the server (and so it can do *anything*, in fact the current SMF-like admin), and another one that doesn't have access to the server and so he can still do many "admin" things, but not any that requires some server interaction (mods, themes, server settings, etc.).
Well, plugins already explicitly require FTP in Wedge - it simply isn't possible to upload a plugin unless you have FTP or direct physical server access - the old uploader has gone. Other stuff has not yet gone but likely will in due course.

And yes, some permissions should be split off.
388
Off-topic / Re: My brother is in England
« on June 5th, 2013, 09:41 PM »
London is pretty awesome generally.
389
Archived fixes / Re: Updated CSS code is buggy
« on June 5th, 2013, 09:39 PM »
I didn't notice the inversion :/

I normally have half a dozen local accounts, until I wrote the merge-user code, now I only have two local accounts...
390
Archived fixes / Re: Updated CSS code is buggy
« on June 5th, 2013, 02:14 PM »
I only found it because I forced every error to include a full backtrace.