Wedge

That's not entirely unfair to the team. There are changes in 2.1 that are direct consequences of 2.0 mentality and structure, and while they're an improvement, they don't really go far enough. For example, in 2.1 they AJAXified the Core Features page. It's a ton better than it was before, it even looks nicer, but it doesn't change the stance I have that the entire design of that page is flawed; it shouldn't even exist (and it doesn't in Wedge)They made some amends to that in 2.0 RC4 with an improved hook system (SMF had hooks of a primitive nature for years), but it lacked the single biggest improvement: ability to load files in line. I always wondered how much of a cue they took from SimpleDesk about this because months before 2.0 RC4, SimpleDesk gained a plugin ability through hooks and so on, with a crude plugin manager, but even then I was very clear about the functionality that should be available through hooks - and that even predates Wedge!

But they never took it far enough in 2.0, 2.1 is better but they're too convinced of the importance of having file edits. The choice for me to disallow file edits was not entirely just a 'we're better than you because we don't need this', there is a whole host of related consequences (relatively safe plugin disabling, file permissions/FTP for uploading)Yup, that's one of the frustrations.I agree, but almost certainly for different reasons.And that's the thing. We have taken the mature core in SMF and revamped what we thought needed revamping - which isn't 'everything'. Yes, there's been some huge changes, even down to rewriting the ban system for example, but there's a lot of things that have remained essentially untouched.That's a valid point of view. And no, it isn't kiss-assery, it's a valid point of view - but with respect comes great responsibility: to be prepared to say what you don't like about it and what you would like to see done with it. One of the big aspects of feedback that we're lacking all around, really, is people not coming forward (out of those who have access) to say what's wrong with things.

For example, I got into a vB 3 review in the last week and out of it we had some interesting feedback with respect to the moderation centre. It's pretty much the first time in 2 1/2 years that anyone's really outlined that there are problems with it, that it isn't just me who feels that way.

Not yet, I'm still trying to make sense of my stuff - though I did revert the changes I made locally for the page indicator ;)

Oh, the whole concept of a controller is fine if you're doing something where MVC separation can be useful (having the controller be absolutely unaware of how to get the data, e.g. in a multi-architecture backend), the dispatcher not so much.

But we don't have multi-architecture for databases, though I probably should update it to use MySQLi sometime.

Yup, they have really gone to town on 'modernisation'. Thing is... you don't need to make the massive shifts they're doing to 'modernise' it. It's very relative. They would likely argue our code is not modern, in some respects I might be inclined to agree, but that's cool.

See, for many people, OOP == modern, and we're not thoroughly OOP, we don't have dispatchers and autoloaders and <insert other shiny language structure>, but we don't consider that we need them particularly. There are OOP aspects to Wedge, just as there were in SMF 2.0. OOP has a place as does functional programming.

That's the thing, I want to engender a thriving ecosystem - and that does include third party submissions too. I may be a plugin machine but I can't write every single plugin required for Wedge ;)

If they want to implement it, they can implement it themselves. I'm certainly not expending *any* effort for *them to make money out of my time*.

I'll help them as much as any other plugin developer would receive.

For your first challenge, find the thread where alpha access is discussed, read it and answer what it says...

I have no idea why the code bbc is fundamentally so complicated. I have never really understood the need for the complexity but there must have been a reason for it :/

The use of flexbox is great, and will solve an ongoing complaint, but I got no idea how to fix it, sorry :(