Wedge

The format should be simply http://myskype.info/myskypename. The button will prob. check the staus, but I opted for status-free icon instead in my fork.

Actually I changed all 4 there: MSN, ICQ, AOL and YIM are now Skype, Twitter, Facebook and Google+. :)

Customizers were originally splitted in Mod team and Design team when SMF 1.1 was in effect, and we were building up what became SMF 2. It was decided to join them into Cuz team then, which I didn't so much care for seeing I knew it would water out the designers bit. I was right, almost all design people left, the mod people stayed on more or less but the damage was done.

Lately its been a trend to just jump teams if people(devs foremost) leave, paving for bizarre choices in leaders and "devs". AFAIK I was the first dev that was purely there for the design skills, to focus on that, and primary because I made the Core and Curve designs - but ALSO because I had proved my PHP skills in writing TinyPortal. I would not have stepped into it though, if I wasn't sure I could follow the other devs in what they were doing.

That cannot be said for recent years team jumping, and its a shame. It proves my point that these teams and the desire to be higher up kills the peer mentality, it makes people look more at what they ARE(as in position) than it what they CAN.

True, its conservative and in a way I can understand that, to maintain stability. But it should still be able to experiment within. The problem I guess, are the people..or rather the people that feel they should decide where SMF is going. So, the only way out is the fork. :D

True, the less people the less friction ..at least on an idealistic level. But it can work with more people too. its just to be agreed upon certain ground rules, and of those one HAS to be "equal worth". Yes, people will have opinions, but person A is more likely to go along with person B's ideas, if the same is returned. Too often it has been one way street.

I cannot understand the fear of "breaking" SMF so to speak..why could not the work being done in forks now, have been done inside SMF too? It would make a lot of sense if SMF embraced forking, or rather "directions" instead of trying to follow a "safe" path and alienate everything else(which is even done mostly by ex-SMF people lol).

What can be really done to SMF now? Isn't it all that it can be asked of a forum already? I belive it is, so to improve it has to be changed, maybe majorly. Its a risk..but so was starting SMF in the first place too.

Agreed with Arantor earlier up. I have made more progress on my own than when it was "set" where things must go within SMF. Sure, I made mistakes and thrown away whole weeks of code..but its fun still, since its going interesting places ..for me at least. And yes, its hard to fin what would give SMF back its appeal for devs..I have no quick answer and I suspect its like that for most that left too. Though I did because of the inner politics that was going on. You know, who will be the next president Cuz team leader and so on.

In fact, having all these badges and roles makes thing worse, IMO anyway, you get the sense you are less worth. Get rid of those first. Second, let the freedom roam, you already have a stable release in the 2.0 line. Let people - especially devs but anyone that dare and at least have some abilities to actually achieve what they put forth - roam free, let them have the equivalent of Github even, so its actually fun for everyone. Sure, there will be total missed directions, but also happy people. Come together, get the feel for what could be added to next release and go on. No "leaders", no "board" and certainly no looking down on support/docs/xyz that does other tasks. Kindred, you are doing just that now, by saying" i have no power, I am down in the support ranks"..why is that? Its because you created this hierarchy system that makes people see other people as "boss", even if they are vastly more capable.You cheering who's the best "talker/manager", not the best "do'er/creative".

But back to what to do: if devs need to rewrite sections in order to make major improvements, allow time for that, for those necessary bigger directions: let the devs make it their "own" instead of just saying "guys, its 2 years, get a grip on feature xy". It won't work for long, since theres no incentive for those people, as in pursuing their own ideas. Its what brought them there, sharing a vision of bettering SMF/Wedge/xyz..

Sure, deadlines are nice to discuss and put forth, but again, you are not managing people that work for a pay. :) Thats a huge difference, and in that setting I feel theres no need for "managers" at all. Those skills are wasted on it.

Thats my 2 cents of it anyway. You may and prob. will disagreed lol. But then again I can say it worked(its what I did with the TP team for 4-5 years, at least what I tried to do) while SMF team cannot.

- what Arantor said. :)

People are here on their own time, its not a job, most of us have that already. So..in order to make things work, i believe everyone must feel that, that we are all peers in the sense of everyone agreeing and - most important to me - acknowledge that "yes, some things I know better than you, so let me try it at least. I am here for the fun, don't spoil it."

About devs being actually stubborn etc...I guess thats true. But it can be both things, positive as well as negative, one can work together and still be a bit stubborn just to make things progress. See, thats again one bad thing about coming from the angle that one has to be managed, that ideas has to be managed: sure, there can be people that decides things. But I would never just sit and decide something i know little or nothing about!. Very acute example, in all the time I was on the team, I did not tell the core devs to change how the core was done - because I didn't know enough about it! Same with javascript, I would rather ask for help. its actually not until now i can at least say something about that, it had to be learnt first.

But if someone said they could do better in terms of the theme stuff back then(and now lol), I would/will have little patience if they didn't actually know something about it. I mean, I can't respect someone that never made a theme in their life, yet proclaimed they could mange other designers or theme devs on where to go.

But again, its not a black and white process, as a fellow Libran I am sure you see this, Kindred. :) It is a limit for everything though, and that limit has been crossed too many times in the SMF camp IMHO.

Sorry to butt in here..and I am sure Kindred is fed up heh, but I can only nod to what when Arantor has to say about the state of things. This is not a new scenario, and while its a good while since I was involved, its hasn't improved since the mess that was Amacythe++ was around, well, not so much you would expect anyway. Talented devs still leave, less talented stay and eventually, leave too...

Its a clear pattern here, and no "i don't see how they can say its wrong" will make that different. It reminds me of something..excuse me for my poor memory, fighting windmills guy? lol, anyway, if you want to stay in your belief that devs are just stubborn and drama queens, by all means do. Its a slow death for SMF and has been for some time now.

It seems that Arantor and Nao are the only ones being still standing in the forking aftermath of SMF going BSD..but I feel several others haven't quite left the arena yet. Elkarte enjoys some former devs enthusiasm,and thats good. Building something is always good, and I strongly believe many of them(certainly myself - although i stayed with my own devices) ENJOYS not being "steered" and "controlled" and most important, feeling they would just be doing the dirty work.

So yeah..maybe it isn't possible to run SMF like a corporation where things get decided and people are told to do stuff. Maybe its best to let it die, so new forces can flourish and be free to change, to try out, to INNOVATE. It certainly isn't "innovative" that comes to mind when I see SMF these days.

ok, I'll be quiet now. :P