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Have you any idea how many people are planning to start using this or converting to this when it's released? Any wild ass guesses?
I'd expect you foresee a large amount of support in the first few months too, but that's to be expected.
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Honestly? No.
The initial support is likely to be full of whiners complaining though -_- about people who expect it to be perfect and not beta when it first emerges (since of course we can't test it as thoroughly as we'd like ourselves, just because we're only human.
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"Will beat whiners with a stick. Doubly so if they don't at least try to read."
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Doubly so if they don't at least try to read."
Come on guys - let's get real now ...
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Thought I would add I have a few forum concepts in my head I will launch when Wedge goes Release Candidate or Gold.
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I'd expect word-of-mouth to spread the news of course. Then we could go to other forums, especially ... that other one ... and make some noise. Might be in bad taste so I'd make sure it was OK here first. :)
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@xrunner: The only real question is who plays Jules and who plays Vincent. I think I'd be quite a good Jules (other than the fact that I'm just not anywhere near as awesome as Samuel L. Jackson), though whether @Nao would like being John Travolta is another matter entirely :lol:
Officially, linking here from That Other Place is still officially verboten, but if there's a useful post here, then it's worth linking ;)
I actually expect things to turn a bit funny... Warning, naughty words ahead. But if you get where this is going already, you'll know exactly what to expect ;)
Oh, I'm sorry. Did I break your concentration? I didn't mean to do that. Please, continue. You were sayin' something about "best intentions"? *silence* What's the matter? Oh, y-you were finished? Oh, well, allow me to retort. What does your bug look like?
What?
What country are you from?
What?
"What" ain't no country I ever heard of! They speak English in "What"?!
What?
English, motherfucker, do you speak it?!
Yes.
Then you know what I'm saying.
Yes.
Describe what your bug looks like.
What?
Say "what" again. SAY WHAT AGAIN. I dare you, I double dare you, motherfucker, say what one more goddamn time!
@Boko: You can always contribute them now if you like... that's why we deliberately run Wedge either directly from SVN or only a day or so's revisions behind, so that as it evolves, we can show you and involve you in the process of doing so.
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@Boko: You can always contribute them now if you like... that's why we deliberately run Wedge either directly from SVN or only a day or so's revisions behind, so that as it evolves, we can show you and involve you in the process of doing so.
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Officially, linking here from That Other Place is still officially verboten, but if there's a useful post here, then it's worth linking ;)
Right?
RIGHT!
So, I couldn't spare that crowd of any useful information on the internets, wherever it may be, now could I? :+1:
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@Boko: To an extent the two are surprisingly similar. When it comes out in the wash, pretty much anything you see here will be available. The only time it's going to be any different is when we get to having a download system and a mod site which will be run by us and may or may not be available depending on how we do it.
@xrunner: It has happened that we've offered useful information back to them in the past and got it linked to here, e.g. I seem to recall debates about SMF development, when we'd already done it... hell, I posted a few requests for features with screenshots of what I'd already done ;)
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It has happened that we've offered useful information back to them in the past and got it linked to here, e.g. I seem to recall debates about SMF development, when we'd already done it... hell, I posted a few requests for features with screenshots of what I'd already done ;)
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Well, Wedge is currently not open source as such (SMF 1.1.x's licence is not open source, but free for use, which isn't the same thing). We have discussed internally as to exactly what licence terms Wedge will have, and we have in the past talked about going paid with it but that raises all kinds of complications, in terms of licensing as well as upsetting people unnecessarily - not to mention the fact that too high means we need to compete with the others in terms of features (which aren't necessarily what *we* want to add) and too low makes it look suspicious.
For example, hands up those people that wouldn't touch Woltlab Burning Board at only $70 or thereabouts as compared to $125+ for IPB, $140 for XF and $209+ for vB? The price looks suspicious compared to its rivals. And people who pay the higher kind of money expect a certain amount of 'code cleanliness' that we don't have (or want)... elsewhere I've talked about the whole OOP vs non-OOP thing, we're not fully OOP, and I doubt we ever will be, plus we do things in an unconventional way but that work for us and what we want to do.
Right now I'm not really that focused on any of that stuff. I'm more interested in just building something awesome, and to a point I don't really want to have to care about pricing or licensing, which is where OSS comes in, open source is just the 'getting to build something awesome' aspect.
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Officially, linking here from That Other Place is still officially verboten, but if there's a useful post here, then it's worth linking ;)
"Site Comments, Issues and Concerns
Comments on this slick site? Post them here. (SMF bugs should be reported in Bug Reports.)"
"Dear Mr Sm.org Administrator, have you considered upgrading this forum to Wedge? It is based on SMF but has more features and fewer bugs :)"
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How about in this board:
"Site Comments, Issues and Concerns
Comments on this slick site? Post them here. (SMF bugs should be reported in Bug Reports.)"
"Dear Mr Sm.org Administrator, have you considered upgrading this forum to Wedge? It is based on SMF but has more features and fewer bugs :)"
Unable to load the 'main_above' template.
:blink:
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oldies is working on fixing it, he is not sure what the issue is since the template was not edited.
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That sounds like index.template.php is damaged somehow. :/
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well it loads fine on one server 113 but not on the others, yet oldies said he did not edit any template just a language string in british english.
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Just an idea about a price. You could charge a small amount, say $10-20, 100% of which goes to charity. Few would object to you asking for a donation after all the work done and the small amount will not reflect upon the quality of the product as it doesn't go to the 'business'. It would get rid of some of the troublemakers because (as you or Nao posted, and to paraphrase) any price however small puts off people who are useless and complain a lot. And the low amount would not make any expectation regarding the OOP-ness or whatever.
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I like that idea. I'd probably suggest WWF myself because I like animals, but yeah, that appeals to me.
On the other hand, though, there will come a time when we have to pay for hosting resources and stuff like that and we won't be able to do it out of our own pockets. Let's say, hypothetically, Wedge is uber successful and we need to escalate to a hardcore dedicated server, the cost of which is likely to run into the hundreds per month - that's not a cost we can sustain indefinitely ourselves.
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Whatever, I have prepared my instances ready for the fresh installation, I have my ideas though not free to spend hours online in this time around.
Whatever licence you guys are considering, never give those bunches of lazy guys chance to turn your work into personal gain. See also what happened between punbb and fluxbb ( I don't know much though).
After sometimes of reading and testing wedge via user interface I feedback to give... Maybe tomorrow, when I can squeeze out time to boot my pc. I hate typing with mobile phones. Good work here!
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Let's say, hypothetically, Wedge is uber successful and we need to escalate to a hardcore dedicated server, the cost of which is likely to run into the hundreds per month - that's not a cost we can sustain indefinitely ourselves.
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I won't give details but suffice to say the ads plus charter membership does cover beyond their costs.
Note: this is quite permissible under an NPO. It just has to be not drawn down as profits as such. Is complicated.
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well the NPO is not exactly a not-for-profit just yet, they are registered as one but not with the IRS just yet. hopefully it is something they will look into again in the future.
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Wait, they STILL haven't gotten that terribly-difficult 30 page form filled in?
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last they looked into it the IRS was not approving such orgs, so it was decided to push it back. but the topic has come up yet again, so progress may be made this time.
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@Arantor
Can you please shed more light in the Chartered Membership in SMF? What are the requirements and gains?
Thanks.
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$50 per year, access to their private helpdesk as well as access to the Charter members' private board. Before SMF put itself on Github, charter members used to receive pre-release versions of SMF more frequently than the public did but that doesn't happen any more.
Mostly it's just a way for you to officially support them should you want to, because the offerings these days probably aren't worth it (better support publicly for example)
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Yeah, the CM support was generally slower than normal support last time I was a member. I just continued to support SM, until they made me a Beta Tester. Then I ran out of money :P
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Which is quite a sad indictment of the system, really.
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Which is quite a sad indictment of the system, really.
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$50 per year, access to their private helpdesk as well as access to the Charter members' private board. Before SMF put itself on Github, charter members used to receive pre-release versions of SMF more frequently than the public did but that doesn't happen any more.
Mostly it's just a way for you to officially support them should you want to, because the offerings these days probably aren't worth it (better support publicly for example)
Thanks.
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Which raises another problem. Precisely the one SMF faces.
If we give private support, that would presume they get better service than the regular users. Which means we actively need to leave regular users without support for a while to give premium users premium support, simple as that. Which means we then lose users because of 'poor' support.
As stated, users have long gotten better support in the public boards than the private ones on sm.org.
Private customisation is a separate topic again. Usually that involves a third party designer or developer, who will use other resources like PMs to negotiate - nothing we need to deal with.
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Private customisation is a separate topic again. Usually that involves a third party designer or developer, who will use other resources like PMs to negotiate - nothing we need to deal with.
...
On the first note, yes some people are ungrateful, if they feel they are a bit left-out, then they should 'upgrade'. Simple!
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Oh no... it doesn't work like that. It really doesn't.
These people won't upgrade because they fervently believe they are *entitled* to support. I have had people tell me that I, as a mod author, should be *grateful* to them for using my mod. Yup. Not grateful to me for making it for them, but that I should be glad they chose to use it.
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even the largest smf forum seems to have major issues upgrading due to all the mods being used. they even resorted to removing the version in the footer just so people would stop asking them to upgrade every time they ask for support
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I thought WC had actually upgraded to a current version these days? The other thing that should be noted is that any version below current has one or more known vulnerabilities.
Upgrading in Wedgeland is simpler because most stuff just doesn't pose the same problem, plugins don't get to modify files. So it's then only user specific changes, but that's ultimately their problem not ours.
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i dont believe they have and i dont think at this point it is even possible due to the mods that are installed there... and the owner looking for even more for some reason.
i heard they are getting close to 50 million posts in the next few months.
i know they have worked on some optimizations but i dont think an upgrade due to all the custom code stuff and not wanting any down time.
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i dont believe they have and i dont think at this point it is even possible due to the mods that are installed there... and the owner looking for even more for some reason.
But it's time consuming to manually do the diff on everything, that upgrade took me two days to do properly.
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then you could try doing it for them :P at one point i had gotten a diff from live627 [was done by him not directly from him i believe], i think the diff ending up being several thousand lines long and i am not sure if that included any files added by mods. [maybe it was 4k lines? i dont recall off hand]
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The trick is that you're not trying to diff 2.0 RC3 and WC-current then reapply that diff to 2.0.4, at least that's not how I did it. I did a diff from old version (raw) to new version (raw) and just applied *those* changes. After that it's just about doing things in the right order so as to not create downtime.
Though, frankly, a webmaster who values uptime over security is not someone I want to work for.
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50 million posts? Can someone please help me with the link, will like to visit the forum for inspiration.
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It is not likely it would interest you.
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It is not likely it would interest you.
Thanks.
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it is an RPG forum, so it would be unlike most normal forums most people would ever have interest in.
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Yup, they have 45 million posts, 930k topics but only 97k members. Lots of very dedicated members.
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Got the forum, just combined your description and Google did the rest. A really huge forum but I guess something like this is mainly for teens. Nice work. Someone like me will not allow avatar in the forum.
How is this guy covering his hosting cost?
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This is why I didn't want to give the details too much. -_-
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Upgrading in Wedgeland is simpler because most stuff just doesn't pose the same problem, plugins don't get to modify files. So it's then only user specific changes, but that's ultimately their problem not ours.
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actually, it looks as if they may have been upgraded. On the credits page, I am listed in the "marketing" group. As of RC3, I was still PM and was in the "project support" group.
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interesting, i guess they worked hard to do that and not complain on sm.org in the process.
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Fairly sure either Live or Ema did that. Probably at the same time the theme changed to what it is now.
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interesting, i guess they worked hard to do that and not complain on sm.org in the process.
Posted: June 2nd, 2013, 02:56 AM
Probably at the same time the theme changed to what it is now.
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Oh, I wouldn't be surprised. Some of the things I've learned from staring at the code and thinking 'wut?'...
With WC, I wouldn't be surprised if you're being literal in terms of it changing with the season, or sarcastic. It's on at least the fourth theme I've seen on it.
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Their theme literally changes wit/h the season Summer spring fall and winter.