Wedge

Public area => Off-topic => The Pub => Other software => Topic started by: Powerbob on October 10th, 2013, 11:09 AM

Title: [2013] Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: Powerbob on October 10th, 2013, 11:09 AM
I see Arantor is back on the SMF team, as developer. Wow that did not take him long :hmm:
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: Nao on October 10th, 2013, 12:31 PM
Old news, it's been at least a week or two... :P

I would comment on this, but I've already done it elsewhere...
http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=511570.msg3617460#msg3617460

To be specific, this is also the topic where Arantor first came up with the 'idea' of rejoining the team.
You'll also notice that all of his ideas are to take Wedge features and put them into SMF.

Just a month ago, he did say that he'd never join the SMF team... Anything but them, eh? Now, these days, he's speaking FOR the SMF team.

So, basically, nothing new. Pete is unpredictable, and he'll be unpredictable in the SMF team just as well. He's just been, let's say... back-porting 1% of his Wedge additions into SMF, very thoughtfully trying to limit the impact that Wedge will have upon SMF users once it's out. Thus, putting even more pressure on me to (1) release Wedge to the public, (2) keep the license closed, so that Wedge has at least some edge over SMF. I'm not exactly sure what he wants... But, it's not very friendly to me, despite anything he'll say.

Ah well, who cares. Wedge is close to public alpha status, so, whatever.
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: BurkeKnight on October 10th, 2013, 05:30 PM
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To be specific, this is also the topic where Arantor first came up with the 'idea' of rejoining the team.
I hope you realize how wrong that line is, due to the fact that he did not decide to join the team, but rather was voted in even before he was asked if he wanted to join the team.

As for the rest, I choose not to bite and comment on it.
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: Drunken Clam on October 10th, 2013, 08:27 PM
Quote from BurkeKnight on October 10th, 2013, 05:30 PM
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To be specific, this is also the topic where Arantor first came up with the 'idea' of rejoining the team.
I hope you realize how wrong that line is, due to the fact that he did not decide to join the team, but rather was voted in even before he was asked if he wanted to join the team.

As for the rest, I choose not to bite and comment on it.
With respect, I think you must have read a different thread than me then!! Pete was CLEARLY asking for the position, despite having said publicly that he would never take a team position. To be voted in for anything, you have to be a candidate, so your view is distorted! Yes, things change, but a lot has been said over the last 5 years or so and I genuinely believe Pete hasn't a clue about what he really wants in his life. I'm in no way knocking him, it's his life after all, but he does have a tendency to change his mind, chuck toys out of the pram etc., often.

I really hope he sticks with his latest venture, but I wont hold my breath.....
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: Nao on October 10th, 2013, 08:40 PM
Quote from BurkeKnight on October 10th, 2013, 05:30 PM
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To be specific, this is also the topic where Arantor first came up with the 'idea' of rejoining the team.
I hope you realize how wrong that line is, due to the fact that he did not decide to join the team, but rather was voted in even before he was asked if he wanted to join the team.
He never mentioned that anywhere.
Even then, what would it change? He said he wouldn't join. Weeks later, he joined. Are you implying that he only refused to join because he feared he wouldn't be voted in?
Well then it's even worse.......
Quote from BurkeKnight on October 10th, 2013, 05:30 PM
As for the rest, I choose not to bite and comment on it.
I didn't ask for anyone to comment. I'm not interested on flame wars. I am, however, not going to lie when asked what I think about Peter's behavior. He disappointed me a lot. I trusted him to behave better than he did in the end. Regardless of what he thinks-- it just doesn't look good for him. And I'm really sad about it.
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: kimikelku on October 10th, 2013, 09:00 PM
Im no one to judge people, and this is just my 2 cents that mean nothing, but that was a sad decision from Arantor, dont get me wrong i dont want to get misunderstood.
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: Arantor on October 10th, 2013, 10:03 PM
Here's an idea. Read my posts.
Better idea: ask me rather than pointlessly speculating about this crap.

I don't owe any of you an explanation but I'd rather the record be set straight if only to stop the pointless speculation.

I left Wedge because I was unhappy at the relationship Nao and I had. The fact that I'm now the bad guy and on the wrong end of some of his attitude in various places is a side matter. I am still unhappy about it but nothing's going to change anyway.

I warned him even before I left that I'd probably end up contributing to SMF rather than going it alone because I don't have all the skills to successfully launch, support and maintain such a project by myself.

I then did attempt to contribute some small things to SMF and ran into the brick wall that was Github. And didn't want to because of the hassle I was experiencing. I subsequently found a better Git tool than the skanky Github for Windows tool and have not had any problems since.

Meanwhile other events were going on (such as the project manager leaving, certain comments were also made in public that made me believe there were some distinct amounts of backstabbing going on) that made me say I weren't interested in collaborating with the SMF team.

So while all this was going on, I was working on Pyrapage, exploring some of my ideas, before realising I was so far out of my depth I was likely to drown.

The issues with the SMF team then got resolved in a way I was happy with. I spoke to the team about rejoining but the vote was put before I formally said 'I want to join', and the vote was firmly in my favour, and while it was going on I formally said sign me up.

And here we are. I don't see that I'm being unpredictable, it just appears that way because you don't have the full story. And the bits you do have, you choose to ignore for whatever reason.


Here's a thought. Nao, maybe if you didn't have your head so far up your own ass all the time, that you can't hear anything for shit, none of this would have happened.

I'm mostly disappointed about how little some of you actually think of me. Keep your pity. Give it to someone who might actually find some use for it.
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: colby67 on October 11th, 2013, 01:23 AM
IMO its fair to say that it is a bit surprising that you criticized the SMF team for so long, Arantor, then when asked suddenly joined them. That jump there - regardless of what have/have not happened between Nao and you - is the part where it could almost seem like it was a revenge kind of thing. Good if it isn't, a bit low if it is...wouldn't you agree?

But hey, there are several things that echo back to my own choices and actions, so I am personally not that upset about it. :) But as mentioned - from this side: the Wedge side and of course Nao's side - it would seem upsetting indeed. On the outside, at least, it did look as if Wedge was the *both* of you right from the start.

But in the name of peace-making..is it really a race game? Does one have to be *better* than the other(not talking actual coding etc. but simply whos the "better" forum software) ? The way I see it, Wedge and SMF will be 2 different directions(or any other fork for that matter),and  not taking each others place.(or in this case, SMF place since its of course most used) anyway.

EDIT: typos
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: Shawn on October 11th, 2013, 07:03 AM
Nao,

If I was an advanced coder, I'd join the Wedge team but I am not so you would have to teach me everything :P

But realistically, I look forward to the release of Wedge and I have high hopes for it. :)
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: Nao on October 11th, 2013, 11:06 PM
Quote from Arantor on October 10th, 2013, 10:03 PM
Here's an idea. Read my posts.
The novels?
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Better idea: ask me rather than pointlessly speculating about this crap.
Again: why waste time on this? I said it above: I'm no longer into flame wars. They're an utter waste of my precious time. I already didn't have enough time on my hands back when you did half[1] of the work on Wedge.
You got overwhelmed, too, but you didn't have my optimism, so you left. It's definitely not the highlight of your career, and I'm sure you'll agree. No need to elaborate on that for days on end.

So, apparently, you still need an answer from me, so I'll be answering your post... But I'm not happy about that. I'm going to have to say unpleasant things, things I'd rather have kept for myself. Read or ignore, it's your call.
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I left Wedge because I was unhappy at the relationship Nao and I had.
The extent of which I only learned after you left. I don't have fantastic people skills, but yours..?
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The fact that I'm now the bad guy and on the wrong end of some of his attitude in various places is a side matter.
What did you expect? You're the one who left the project. I'm the one who's struggling hard to look into the admin are and get up to speed with what you did on it, so that I can work on it too in the future. I wouldn't have had to do it if you hadn't left, so I have all reasons to be unhappy with your departure. So, as I said: you left. Don't expect Wedge followers to send you flowers, and don't think that SMF followers won't fear that you end up doing the same for SMF, in a few months. You are well known in the forum community as an unstable person. And that's your own doing. How many times did you remove your sm.org account, already..?
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I then did attempt to contribute some small things to SMF and ran into the brick wall that was Github. And didn't want to because of the hassle I was experiencing. I subsequently found a better Git tool than the skanky Github for Windows tool and have not had any problems since.
Which one? Tortoise? Smart? GitExtensions?
To me, any tool is just the same story: they don't show rev numbers. Even if I tag a release, it won't show the number of commits since that tag, I have to do 'git rev-list' or 'git describe --tags' on the command line, which sucks. At least, Mercurial has out-of-the-box supports for rev numbers, so if definitely has my preference, at least in the future.

Anyway, in recent weeks, you only mentioned git as 'an additional obstacle' on joining SMF. And, again, after everything you said about SMF, and its team in particular, it's always baffling to see you completely back out on what you said before. And, contributing your Wedge code to SMF? Definitely not cool, man. Yes, you can do it. But don't expect my sympathy afterwards.
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Meanwhile other events were going on (such as the project manager leaving, certain comments were also made in public that made me believe there were some distinct amounts of backstabbing going on) that made me say I weren't interested in collaborating with the SMF team.
Yep. And suddenly, poof, it's like it never happened. Next thing you know, you're gonna tell me they never backstabbed me either, and they were hours away from offering me a dev position when someone decided to kick me out instead.
See, these things happen because of people, not because of the concept behind the team. And these people-- most of them are still here. And you're suddenly very forgiving towards them.
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So while all this was going on, I was working on Pyrapage, exploring some of my ideas, before realising I was so far out of my depth I was likely to drown.
Why don't I get that feeling when working alone on Wedge, then..?
Oh, maybe because I'm more realistic than you are, when it comes to sorting between feature suggestions and determining which are realistic goals, and which aren't?
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And here we are. I don't see that I'm being unpredictable, it just appears that way because you don't have the full story.
How can I get the full story if you're only willing to share it in obscure hidden comments in a SMF mod you know I'll never see..? That wasn't cool back then, and it still isn't.
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And the bits you do have, you choose to ignore for whatever reason.
I chose to ignore your whims, because I already went through these last year, and I knew (well, I thought I knew) that they were part of you, and discussing them could only bring more frustration. 90% of the time, we worked alone on our areas of expertise, occasionally asking for each other's opinions on what would be best here or there. It worked *great*. We did that for the better of these three frigging years. And if you disagree with that, then it's you who's ignoring reality, not me.
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Here's a thought. Nao, maybe if you didn't have your head so far up your own ass all the time, that you can't hear anything for shit, none of this would have happened.
Nice of you.
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I'm mostly disappointed about how little some of you actually think of me.
Seriously? I'm the one who should be saying that...
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Keep your pity. Give it to someone who might actually find some use for it.
<tired>
Ah, well. If you need to prove yourself, young grasshopper, then set yourself a reasonable goal, and keep at it. And don't work with anyone, because you'll only end up comparing yourself to them.
 1. To make things simple.
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: Nao on October 12th, 2013, 08:14 PM
Quote from Bloc on October 11th, 2013, 01:23 AM
IMO its fair to say that it is a bit surprising that you criticized the SMF team for so long, Arantor, then when asked suddenly joined them. That jump there - regardless of what have/have not happened between Nao and you - is the part where it could almost seem like it was a revenge kind of thing. Good if it isn't, a bit low if it is...wouldn't you agree?
Well, I'm sure he'll disagree, but you already know that most of us here agree.
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But hey, there are several things that echo back to my own choices and actions, so I am personally not that upset about it. :)
Yep, you're also known as someone who changes their mind quite often... :P
Still, the only person you hurt by doing so, was yourself. You never threatened someone else by choosing to let them down. From the moment Pete and I decided that Wedge should be publicized, we knew we wanted to have a community; there are several dozen people now, who chose to trust us and are waiting for a release, rather than following, I don't know, the developments of Elk or SMF 2.1, or Protendo, or something else. I know I can't let them down. I'm very disappointed that Pete, though, didn't mind one bit about letting everyone down. That doesn't include just me, there are many people here who were affected by his decision. He can't expect those of us who stayed to take his side, then.
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But as mentioned - from this side: the Wedge side and of course Nao's side - it would seem upsetting indeed. On the outside, at least, it did look as if Wedge was the *both* of you right from the start.
And it was.
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But in the name of peace-making..is it really a race game? Does one have to be *better* than the other(not talking actual coding etc. but simply whos the "better" forum software) ? The way I see it, Wedge and SMF will be 2 different directions(or any other fork for that matter),and  not taking each others place.(or in this case, SMF place since its of course most used) anyway.
I'm not sure here. The problem with the competition, to me, is that it's monopolizing the energy of good coders who could be working together instead. Don't anyone dare say to me that Elk or SMF are better than Wedge in any way, it's simply not the case. There are good things in these codebases, which I think would be good for Wedge too, but I'm not like Pete, I'm never going to start working on a codebase that's two years behind, especially in terms of features, and waste a couple other years trying to get it up to speed. That's silly. All I'm waiting for, right now, is other gifted developers interested in working on Wedge in the same way that Pete and I worked together, i.e. diverging fields of interest, and little conflict in our commits so that we don't have to systematically try and decide who's going to get their ideas in.

Really, it's all about not wasting time. And Pete, what he's done -- he's wasting my time right now, and he's wasting his own time too, because he's not working on the software that he knows to be superior.
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: BurkeKnight on October 13th, 2013, 01:03 AM
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Don't anyone dare say to me that Elk or SMF are better than Wedge in any way, it's simply not the case.
A little bit too sure of yourself on that comment, but it shows you do have confidence in Wedge. :)

However, to say that the others are not better, would be ill-advised at this point, as there really has been no basis for this kind of comment. How are you basing it? Due to how many people polled, that are not part of the Wedge community? Based on opinions from what neutral coders looking at them all?

SMF 2.1, Elk, and some of the others can say that about themselves if they want, and get less argument. Why? They are open source and on GitHub, where anyone can examine and test them. Without people testing and looking through the coding, I'm sorry, but I can not stand by and see a line like that without saying this.
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: Nao on October 13th, 2013, 01:18 AM
Suggestion: just look at wedge.org, elkarte.net and whatever demo site they have for SMF 2.1.

I'm not saying the competition is bad. I'm saying they just never had a chance to keep up with us. Amf was busy fighting internally, and elk is too young and there are too many cooks in the kitchen IMHO. Thus, they spend most of their time fixing bugs.
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: Shawn on October 13th, 2013, 03:59 AM
SMF... the forum software that doesn't listen to its fanbase lol. I bet you that every time I have seen someone suggest a new core feature to it, they have been told that it makes more sense to be a modification or belittled and degraded when they disagree with such a response. Wedge is a way for SMF to evolve into something that is actually worth hitting the download button for... Of course, Wedge will become its own or really is already its own and SMF and still... well its what it has been for many years.

Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: Antes on October 13th, 2013, 03:39 PM
Quote from Nao on October 13th, 2013, 01:18 AM
Suggestion: just look at wedge.org, elkarte.net and whatever demo site they have for SMF 2.1.

I'm not saying the competition is bad. I'm saying they just never had a chance to keep up with us. Amf was busy fighting internally, and elk is too young and there are too many cooks in the kitchen IMHO. Thus, they spend most of their time fixing bugs.
Development philosophy - just because our developers don't do it in wedge way that doesn't mean its wrong...
Quote from Shawn Gossman on October 13th, 2013, 03:59 AM
SMF... the forum software that doesn't listen to its fanbase lol. I bet you that every time I have seen someone suggest a new core feature to it, they have been told that it makes more sense to be a modification or belittled and degraded when they disagree with such a response. Wedge is a way for SMF to evolve into something that is actually worth hitting the download button for... Of course, Wedge will become its own or really is already its own and SMF and still... well its what it has been for many years.
Try vbulletin then it has more features inside it, I'm sure you love it!
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: Shawn on October 13th, 2013, 06:01 PM
I use IPB if I ise paid, maybe xenForo once they get better. VB, ugh.
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: TE on October 13th, 2013, 06:24 PM
Quote from Nao on October 13th, 2013, 01:18 AM
...and elk is too young and there are too many cooks in the kitchen IMHO. Thus, they spend most of their time fixing bugs.
Refactoring the whole core to OOP / MVC isn't a simple task and will most likely produce some bugs. Meanwhile we have standardized the action controllers, most of them are free of database queries and use api functions instead for the "low-level" tasks (database queries, file manipulation and so on.)

And we have also added lots of cool new features :cool:  Post by E-Mail, OpenID 2.0, Likes, Spoiler & Footnotes BBC, Gravatars, improved admin and antispam security, drag & drop for sorting boards, custom profile fields and smileys, Video Embedding, Quote to new topic, disregard topics, and much much more..

Don't underestimate ElkArte ;)



Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: BurkeKnight on October 13th, 2013, 07:12 PM
Also, do you really think that the other forums are showing all their stuff for no reason?
They are getting more and more input from the community, and not just their little private community.

Yes, there are some reasons not to use something like GitHub, and I for one can not fault you that.
However, saying that one is better than any other, when none of them are truly out there is being too full of oneself and being conceited.

Wait until they are out there, for the general public to use and judge. Then we all will see which is best, in the view of those who count: The users.
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: Nao on October 19th, 2013, 05:37 PM
Quote from Antes on October 13th, 2013, 03:39 PM
Development philosophy - just because our developers don't do it in wedge way that doesn't mean its wrong...
Well, considering Pete is slowly turning SMF 2.1 into a clone of Wedge (ahem...), and Elk is taking PRs from it, it's starting to look like in a couple of years, Elk and SMF will be Wedge-like...
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Try vbulletin then it has more features inside it, I'm sure you love it!
If I had a choice, I'd still go for FluxBB. It has 10 times less features, but it sure is fast.

Heck, perhaps my goal for Wedge 2.0 should be to emulate that speed, ah ah...
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: Nao on October 19th, 2013, 05:55 PM
Quote from TE on October 13th, 2013, 06:24 PM
Refactoring the whole core to OOP / MVC isn't a simple task and will most likely produce some bugs.
And what's the point of going OOP/MVC..?
Wedge uses OOP where it makes sense. Does Elk do that?
As for MVC, to me, it simply looks like the usual SMF file structure is gone, and replaced with tons of files that make no sense to me anymore. If I'm to find some portion of code, I have to do a global search.
Pete argues that more files = better performance, but I don't believe him a bit. What Wedge and SMF load are usually needed at some point in the page's life, so splitting into multiple files wouldn't help performance by more than 5% -- if not an actual loss of performance, I'd say.
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Meanwhile we have standardized the action controllers,
Like what? The action array? Dispatcher.class.php is much messier than Wedge's index.php (to which you still have source code access, BTW. When exactly did you become a developer at a Wedge competitor..?)
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most of them are free of database queries and use api functions instead for the "low-level" tasks (database queries, file manipulation and so on.)
I don't see anything special in there. You'll need to be more specific.
Currently, all I see is Elk taking features from SMF 2.1, and from Wedge (the footnotes tag, SERIOUSLY...?)
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And we have also added lots of cool new features :cool:  Post by E-Mail, OpenID 2.0, Likes, Spoiler & Footnotes BBC, Gravatars, improved admin and antispam security, drag & drop for sorting boards, custom profile fields and smileys, Video Embedding, Quote to new topic, disregard topics, and much much more..
Yes, as I said -- footnotes, ugh. Post by e-mail is actually the only Elk feature I openly congratulated the team for. I don't know if it works, though, but I've always wanted to have such a feature on my own sites, but I didn't know where to start, and some of my 2005 experiments with POP communication were bad. (At the time, I didn't know much about PHP, but it still traumatized me.)
Anyway-- I'm not stealing this one from you guys...
Likes are a Wedge feature. Gravatars, too. Improved anti-spam, too. Drag & drop for boards, yep. Custom stuff? Yup... Video embedding? Aeva invented it. Disregard topics is an easy hack to implement (set the view date to MAX_INT for a given topic), and I'm working on doing a better feature than that, but anyway: not impressed. Open ID, I have no idea if this thing still exists. I think we removed support for that years ago. And none of us cared about rewriting it. Quote to new topic, I don't really see the point of this feature.

Like I said, I'm impressed with Post to e-mail. And that's pretty much all, I'm afraid.
I'm not saying the Elk team did nothing for 2 years. There are tons of commits to account for. They certainly added more features than SMF 2.1, too. I may not be in love with Elk (the software), I may not be in awe with what I see, but I'm perfectly aware that some of your team did a great job with it. Just not as great as what Pete and I did on Wedge for 3 years. You're telling me not to underestimate Elk. I'm guessing the same goes for you.

Because one thing is sure, in my mind -- in terms of innovation and sheer number of new features, none of the other SMF derivatives hold a candle to Wedge. No, I'm not particularly proud of it or anything (anyone investing as many man-hours into the project as I did would have reached the same results), I'm just saying it because that's just the *plain truth*, and I'm realistic when I try to evaluate competitors. Wedge has more features, it's simple math. It doesn't mean you *can't* beat it. In fact, you certainly will, because you have a large team (especially now that I'm alone on the project), and I'll also soon be slowed down by the fact that I go public and will have to deal with support requests. Don't worry about that. But if you're speaking on Wedge.org as an ElkArte developer, don't be surprised that the general idea here is that Elk is inferior to Wedge. Otherwise, I'd be pushing my PRs to Elk, not here.
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: Nao on October 19th, 2013, 06:00 PM
Quote from BurkeKnight on October 13th, 2013, 07:12 PM
Also, do you really think that the other forums are showing all their stuff for no reason?
What do you mean?
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They are getting more and more input from the community, and not just their little private community.
By little private community, you mean Wedge?
It's not private, is it? Otherwise, why would you be able to post here..?
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Yes, there are some reasons not to use something like GitHub, and I for one can not fault you that.
My biggest concerns are now solved (most notably, I'll be able to still use commit numbers, and I've finally managed to secure both the 'Nao' and 'Wedge' accounts, on the same day), so it's now mainly about being efficient with git, which still is in progress. (I'm going to make a private repo at bitbucket.org first, to test how it's working, then I'll move the repo to GH if it works well.)
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However, saying that one is better than any other, when none of them are truly out there is being too full of oneself and being conceited.
Well, they're all being used on their respective websites, aren't they...?
SMF 2.1 isn't, though, but from what I saw of demo sites, I didn't notice anything special about it. It's technically the least interesting between Wedge, Elk and SMF.
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Wait until they are out there, for the general public to use and judge. Then we all will see which is best, in the view of those who count: The users.
If you're evaluating software quality through its number of users alone, I can tell you which forum system is the best: vBulletin. Ah, ah. Very droll. ::)
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: forumsearch0r on October 19th, 2013, 11:26 PM
Quote from Nao on October 19th, 2013, 06:00 PM
If you're evaluating software quality through its number of users alone, I can tell you which forum system is the best: vBulletin. Ah, ah. Very droll. ::)
... with phpBB being a very close second, if not first, now that XenForo is starting to spread well ... so much about quality.

Hm, let me summarize: Arantor doesn't want to be the bad guy, so he decides to merge Wedge's "top features" into SMF, leaving some more "boo-fucking-hoo everyone hates me" wherever he can. Good and consistent decision, pal.

I wonder what they had to do to make him work with them again. Granting unlimited freedom regarding any changes he wants to commit? Not that SMF wasn't dead enough already...

Popcorn, anyone?
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: forumsearch0r on October 20th, 2013, 12:17 AM
Quote from TE on October 13th, 2013, 06:24 PM
And we have also added lots of cool new features :cool:  Post by E-Mail, OpenID 2.0, Likes,  (...)
Yup, I just registered on your board to test that. Got a timeout after returning from my OpenID provider instantly. Now that's a cool feature! I had to use the password-based authentication.

Guess I should fork ElkArte and make it right. Chances are good I'm done before Nao is. :ph34r:
(On the other hand, I'm lazy and already do too much coding in my spare time... :unsure:)
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: BurkeKnight on October 20th, 2013, 01:16 AM
But the main problem with VB, is it's cost.
If instead of being against each other, SMF and forks, should be working together on main issues and features.

Yes, I admit, GitHub is a real pain. I only just recently added my mods and themes to BK Modding's organization account.
I still have not learned much on using it...LOL.


SMF, Elk and others are having theirs open, so people can see what is going on, and even test it out, via download from GitHub. That's what I meant by showing all, and by the larger community.
I mean heck, I've not even been able to look into the admin section of Wedge, so I can't even give much opinion on how it is. Granted, as a user, I do see a lot that I like. If I did not, I would not have signed up here. Just because I'm a team member for SMF, does not mean that I have to use just that for all my sites. I do have plans on trying Wedge with at least one of my sites. :)
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: forumsearch0r on October 20th, 2013, 01:18 AM
Quote from BurkeKnight on October 20th, 2013, 01:16 AM
If instead of being against each other, SMF and forks, should be working together on main issues and features.
Diversity causes creativity. The more teams are able to work on their vision of a "perfect" BBS, the faster new features can evolve without having to ask all other teams first. A good example might be Windows NT, which started as a completely separate core team before Microsoft applied their improvements.
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: BurkeKnight on October 20th, 2013, 06:01 AM
I'm not saying that they all should share everything...
Just the things that may improve security for all, and some of the things that they all may be able to work on jointly, for the betterment of all.

SMF and the SMF forks are together, against all the rest, and sharing some things would be a good idea, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: forumsearch0r on October 20th, 2013, 06:07 AM
That would require all of their creators to share a goal. Won't happen.
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: BurkeKnight on October 20th, 2013, 10:23 AM
Ahhh.... But they all do share a goal...

To be better than all the other programs out there.... ;)
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: TE on October 20th, 2013, 11:01 AM
Quote
And what's the point of going OOP/MVC..?
Wedge uses OOP where it makes sense. Does Elk do that?
Last time I checked Wedge (a year ago or so) it wasn't true OOP but using singletons all over the place..

Elk is using OOP where it makes sense, yes. We have a coding guideline and we simply follow our own standards:

https://github.com/elkarte/Elkarte/wiki/Architecture
https://github.com/elkarte/Elkarte/wiki/Mvc

The point of following standards is to make it less complicated for developers and easier extendable. And last but not least to use other common standards such as unit-testing and build-testing (travis ci).

Nao, I would probably have contributed my code and energy to Wedge but I wasn't allowed to do so..  Sadly you (and Pete) never gave me write access to the main repo, thus I moved on at some point.. Sorry.

And please: I'm not up for a battle comparing Elk, Wedge and SMF... We all have wasted more than enough time & energy to complain about SMF, their NPO structure and such stuff. At least I don't have the time nor the passion to start such type of "battle" once again. Elk and Wedge are simply following completely different approaches ..
Quote from forumsearch0r on October 20th, 2013, 12:17 AM
Yup, I just registered on your board to test that. Got a timeout after returning from my OpenID provider instantly. Now that's a cool feature! I had to use the password-based authentication.

Guess I should fork ElkArte and make it right.
yep, probably a bug or the openID provider is based on stateless OpenID2 which isn't supported yet. We are still using SMF's OpenID implemantation under the hood and this is a stateful one. You're more than welcome to fork and fix it :cool:
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: Norodo on October 20th, 2013, 12:21 PM
How about we wait until the software is released, then we let the users decide? Right now this is not much more than a pissing contest.
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: BurkeKnight on October 20th, 2013, 01:29 PM
Quote from BurkeKnight on October 13th, 2013, 07:12 PM
Wait until they are out there, for the general public to use and judge. Then we all will see which is best, in the view of those who count: The users.
That's all I was trying to say. :)
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: forumsearch0r on October 20th, 2013, 02:53 PM
Quote from TE on October 20th, 2013, 11:01 AM
You're more than welcome to fork and fix it :cool:
While I (as I mentioned above) make my money with coding, I don't have a clue about OpenID implementations, so this would probably take me longer than you... :unsure:
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: Nao on October 20th, 2013, 04:26 PM
Quote from forumsearch0r on October 19th, 2013, 11:26 PM
Hm, let me summarize: Arantor doesn't want to be the bad guy, so he decides to merge Wedge's "top features" into SMF, leaving some more "boo-fucking-hoo everyone hates me" wherever he can.
Well... I guess that's pretty much it, yeah, although I'd use other words.
Fact is, all he's been doing at SMF 2.1 is adding features that are taken STRAIGHT from Wedge. In fact, some of his commits (look at his 05be2b92 revert) have Wedge code in them, such as wesql::query, if proof was needed that he didn't just take his 'ideas', he was taking his code, too.
I don't exactly have time to check all of his commits to see if even a SINGLE line of my own additions finds itself in his commits, but if I ever find something like that, I'm NOT going to let it go with a smile.
He may see this whole process as an attempt to make SMF better; I only see it as removing added value (thus, *substracting* value) from Wedge. Which doesn't go well with me.
Quote
Good and consistent decision, pal.

I wonder what they had to do to make him work with them again. Granting unlimited freedom regarding any changes he wants to commit? Not that SMF wasn't dead enough already...

Popcorn, anyone?
He said multiple times (also implying it in public(http://wedge.org/pub/8262/not-so-mixed-signals/msg291265/#msg291265)) that he wouldn't work for the SMF team; the whole 'Let's go make Wedge' was due to the SMF team ousting us for being too bold. For years, we worked towards making the SMF codebase as good as it could be. It is NOT so that the SMF team can get any gratification from our work. The very same team that treated us like shit. (I'm not talking about the current dev team, obviously.) They're going to benefit from our work, our expertise.

I think most people here will understand if I'm not happy with that.
Other than that, I couldn't care less about what he has to bring to SMF. Good for them. But any code/ideas he takes from Wedge? Shame on him.
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: forumsearch0r on October 20th, 2013, 04:29 PM
Quote from Nao on October 20th, 2013, 04:26 PM
look at his 05be2b92 revert
I wish I could!
Quote from Nao on October 20th, 2013, 04:26 PM
Other than that, I couldn't care less about what he has to bring to SMF. Good for them. But any code/ideas he takes from Wedge? Shame on him.
Basically, it's "his own work" he contributes (again). I don't know if the Wedge license allows that though. :whistle:
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: Nao on October 20th, 2013, 04:36 PM
Quote from BurkeKnight on October 20th, 2013, 01:16 AM
I still have not learned much on using it...LOL.
I don't think more than a handful of GH users are using it to its full extent.
Here's what one learns over time: Git is needlessly complicated, but it still allows one to do things like SVN[1]. It just adds new features to it. Useless features, for the most part. Some of SVN's 'easy' features are also replaced with more complicated features, but that's where Google is your friend, I guess. When I need to import a SVN repo, I just do svnadmin load on my command line. When I need to do a Git repo, I'll copy & paste a long and complicated command I found on Google. As long as it gets done, eh..?
Quote
SMF, Elk and others are having theirs open, so people can see what is going on, and even test it out, via download from GitHub. That's what I meant by showing all, and by the larger community.
The Wedge codebase will be out soon. But it'll first go through a short 'private' phase on Bitbucket, and then I'll move it to Github, when it's okay to do it.
Fact is, I don't really believe anyone will offer any pull requests for Wedge. Really, anyone who has read access to the Wedge SVN (or a zip of the late 2012 alpha) could have offered diff patches, it's easy to generate, but nobody did. (Well, John did a couple, which got integrated, but really he's the only one. Also, Dragooon wrote the initial notification system but it was as a plugin, not a patch.)
So, I really don't see any reason why others would provide anything, as desirable as it might be to me.
Quote
I mean heck, I've not even been able to look into the admin section of Wedge, so I can't even give much opinion on how it is.
Well, it's pretty good... But also complicates things if you're used to the SVN admin area, I guess...
It was Pete's thing. His area of expertise. I'm only getting started resuming work on it, but all in all, I know I'll eventually overhaul the most 'obvious' change he made to it, i.e. the homepage. I've never liked it.
Quote
Granted, as a user, I do see a lot that I like. If I did not, I would not have signed up here. Just because I'm a team member for SMF, does not mean that I have to use just that for all my sites.
What do you do at SMF?
Quote
I do have plans on trying Wedge with at least one of my sites. :)
Well, you do whatever you want, I'm not concerned with what people do with Wedge, as long as they follow the rules with it! ;) (i.e. no redistribution, and no copyright removal.)
 1. In fact, even GH's Windows application only shows the most basic things you can do with it; it's even simpler than TortoiseSVN in concept, so that goes to show, you don't HAVE to know everything about it... Thankfully.
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: Nao on October 20th, 2013, 04:42 PM
Quote from forumsearch0r on October 20th, 2013, 04:29 PM
Quote from Nao on October 20th, 2013, 04:26 PM
look at his 05be2b92 revert
I wish I could!
https://github.com/SimpleMachines/SMF2.1/commit/aec98628cbc78d30a38f2dcf68dfc747740a899f
(Not sure why it doesn't have the same commit ID as on my local copy, though...)
Quote from forumsearch0r on October 20th, 2013, 04:29 PM
Basically, it's "his own work" he contributes (again). I don't know if the Wedge license allows that though. :whistle:
To make things short... The Wedge license doesn't allow it, no.
However, if it IS code that he wrote, I have no reason to sue him. Just because he's been acting like a jerk for the last two months, doesn't mean I forgot we did great things together for several years. (He probably forgot himself, though...)

I just don't want to re-use a single line of my own contributions without my authorizations, that's all.
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: Nao on October 20th, 2013, 04:44 PM
Quote from BurkeKnight on October 20th, 2013, 06:01 AM
I'm not saying that they all should share everything...
Just the things that may improve security for all, and some of the things that they all may be able to work on jointly, for the betterment of all.

SMF and the SMF forks are together, against all the rest, and sharing some things would be a good idea, in my opinion.
I've always shared security issues I found. They just didn't care.

I don't know where their security advisories are posted, though...
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: forumsearch0r on October 20th, 2013, 04:49 PM
Quote from Nao on October 20th, 2013, 04:42 PM
https://github.com/SimpleMachines/SMF2.1/commit/aec98628cbc78d30a38f2dcf68dfc747740a899f
:wow:

 :lol:
Quote from Nao on October 20th, 2013, 04:42 PM
To make things short... The Wedge license doesn't allow it, no.
Well, given that what he does is (more or less) betraying you, you might want to punish that. Good times which have come to an end are no reason for forgiving anything IMO.
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: TE on October 20th, 2013, 05:19 PM
To be fair with Pete: He didn't revert his own commit ;) It was this one which introduced Wedge's db class:
https://github.com/SimpleMachines/SMF2.1/commit/02e097e3b87dd22529a491ce9c7b357d9d41168b
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: BurkeKnight on October 20th, 2013, 07:31 PM
Nao,

I am now a Support Team member.

You should know, if read any of my posts at SMF, that I always not only respect people's copyrights being there, but have been known to add ones that I thought should be there. :)

I'd still love to explore Wedge, and can't wait to see it come out.
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: Arantor on October 21st, 2013, 04:28 AM
So if you're going to talk shit about me, at least have the courtesy to do it in public, because this topic isn't public.

Firstly, you want to bitch about my including 'Wedge' code in SMF 2.1... except you didn't bother to notice it wasn't actually my commit. If you look at TE's link, you will see it was Live that introduced it, I merged it because I wasn't paying attention and then I fixed it.

Secondly, I don't deny I pulled a dick move. But frankly it was better than the alternative. I was honest with myself, and honest with you. More than I'd been in months. I've given you my reasons for doing what I did. I don't ask you, or anyone, to understand. It's quite clear you don't want to even if you are capable of doing so.

Thirdly, I'm perfectly within my rights to use my ideas and my code in SMF if I so choose. I don't see what it is you're actually bitching about because you never liked the changes I made to the admin panel as you're so fond of telling everyone who'll listen.

Here's the thing, I pulled a dick move but I held up my end of the bargain in the aftermath. I gave you a licence in writing to ensure you'd never have any problems with my code from a legal perspective, as I told you I would. I could have been an insufferable ass about it, but I wasn't. I did the least dickish thing I could do about it.

In fact, if you were to ask the team, they'd probably turn around and tell you that I was surprisingly considerate, there are things coming that I asked them if I should tell you about, because I thought you should know, things that affect Wedge as well as SMF, but since all you can do is stab me in the back every chance you get, no special treatment there.

Next time there's a security issue, you'll have to wait for the patch like everyone else. Then again since it'll be me working on it, the odds are you won't trust it anyway because you don't think I'm particularly competent - that much is evident. But I'll leave you to figure it out from the patch like everyone else gets.


Here's the kicker: I don't want to fork Wedge. The more I look at it, the more incompatible it is with what I have in mind for future SMF versions. SMF may not be as fully featured as Wedge, but there's absolutely no way the code is better in Wedge. The amount of stuff rammed through the buffer at the end of page processing is shocking.

Still, let's see how things progress over the next year, eh?


EDIT: I can't believe I got sucked back in to this drama again. Some people were considerate enough to tell me what you'd been saying about me. And for the longest time I tried not to care (as people you won't believe will happily attest). But it got to me, it got to me that I still care what other people think.
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: Nao on October 21st, 2013, 09:15 AM
Seriously, Pete..? Don't you think you've harmed yourself enough by now?!
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: forumsearch0r on October 21st, 2013, 11:24 AM
Quote from Arantor on October 21st, 2013, 04:28 AM
SMF may not be as fully featured as Wedge, but there's absolutely no way the code is better in Wedge. The amount of stuff rammed through the buffer at the end of page processing is shocking.
So you actually put shocking code into Wedge until it was too much and now you complain about it being too much? :whistle:
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: Nao on October 21st, 2013, 12:50 PM
Quote from forumsearch0r on October 21st, 2013, 11:24 AM
So you actually put shocking code into Wedge until it was too much and now you complain about it being too much? :whistle:
I'm responsible for *most* of the ob_sessrewrite additions. Next thing you know, he'll say he always hated Wess, never thought skins were a good idea, and thought skeletons to be stupid. When I only said what I'd always said: that I didn't like the admin homepage. And that's the only admin area page I ever shared my concerns about. But it looks like Pete still has issues with his self-confidence, and he has to prove to everyone that he knows best. Oh, well... Hopefully, he'll grow past that.

This is what it does, in addition to what SMF already did (the non-trivial blocks of code are indicated by a star):

- Turns all http://wedge.org/ tags into the actual board URL. Which is a feature Pete loved.
- A meta description hack (by Pete)
- Hooks
- Showing header CSS, the elegant way.
* Delayed events -- making for much faster page loads, even when using jQuery. Could be disabled, but that would imply loading jQuery systematically from the header, which on the first page load, may be quite visible. I'm not against putting this into a setting, but nobody ever even suggested it. (Also, Pete loved it.)
* Soft-merging of posts. Wanted to put that into a setting, but it was such a popular feature (including with Pete), I decided against it.
* Macro replacements. Very powerful. Enabled through skins.
* Skin replacements. Even more powerful, but use with care. Enabled through skins.
* Membergroup colors. Written by me originally, but Pete bloated it up to use classes and caching. I was in favor of this, but Pete, don't tell me I'm always the cause for bloat, all right?
- Hiding profile links for users who can't view them.
- Topic prefixes
* Pretty URLs (probably the only feature in this list that Pete didn't like.)
- Indenazi hack. Only executed if used in a skin.
- HTML minification; only executed if a secret setting is set...
- Link shortening (this is different from pretty URLs; it doesn't change links, only makes the page easier to compress.)

Most of these features could (and I think it was brought up at some point) be moved to their own functions, as long as we're providing a link to $buffer of course, but it's really just a matter of ethics.
What happens here, is that these features are *best* placed in ob_sessrewrite, because it saves time, and makes overall coding easier for plugin authors (e.g. they don't have to care about membergroup colors themselves, as Wedge does it for them after they output their HTML.)

Now, if we ignore his comment about page processing, I'm afraid I can't take seriously the mention that the 'code is better in SMF'. If anything...

Code: [Select]
$smcFunc&#91;'query']('', 'SELECT * FROM {db_prefix}table');
everywhere, versus
Code: [Select]
wesql::query('SELECT * FROM {db_prefix}table');

I'm only very sad to see Pete actually forgot the three years he spent on improving the SMF codebase with me. He's back about two years before, and suddenly finds himself in a position where he can't break existing mods and has to cope with all the crap in SMF (same crap that is mostly gone in both Wedge and ElkArte), so he could hardly make a point about that.

The SMF codebase was fantastic and very modern in 2003. We're in 2013. Either SMF keeps mod compatibility, or it gets a better codebase. But it can't have BOTH, thus making Pete's point completely absurd.

Okay, I promised myself I wouldn't reply his post, so I'm going to stop there, because technically I'm replying to a sentence of it through a quote... -_-
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: Nao on November 1st, 2013, 11:51 PM
FWIW, I split this topic into three. The other topics are 'git hiccups' (everything about my not knowing git merging well enough, and misunderstanding something because of that), and 'feline hiccups' (the flame war about her, obviously.)
In the Off-topic board, of course.
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: forumsearch0r on November 2nd, 2013, 12:15 AM
Isn't the whole thread a bit off-topic?
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: Nao on November 8th, 2013, 04:57 PM
A line had to be drawn... :P
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: Sabre™ on July 23rd, 2015, 07:41 AM
Now that I've slightly caught up on all of this, I'm kind of disappointed that I had...
I've been away from 'forum' software for Years, so have missed on the growth of Wedge.
But I do remember its conception, the reasons behind it, the drama which gave it life.
I remember the Dream, the Determination and Drive of 2 of SMFs talented contributors.
I also remember those which shared the same dream, both public and private.
It was an Exciting time, in which my 'Personal Text' under my avy never stood any truer.

This thread is quite a sad read imo.
But atleast it's honest in some respect...

I can understand Pete's wanting to be true to himself, and I can understand Rene's hurt. Even though he's staunch to hold it in light regard.

Good mates Always have disagreements, that's one of the luxuries of being mates, because mates Know each others strengths and weaknesses and can accept both.
I can keep on with my thoughts, but they aren't really necessary, as I don't know either of you intimate enough to be too opinionated.

I hope all comes right, or is right with you both, Just take a look at Your creation!! :cool: and those which have spawned from it.

Great work guys, and to all of the other contributors. :+1:

Regards,
Sabre :thanks:
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: Sabre™ on July 23rd, 2015, 07:43 AM
p.s.
Forgive my language errors :whistle:
English is my third spoken :rbzz:
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: Nao on July 23rd, 2015, 10:33 PM
Please don't bump a topic with a title that might not be related to the current situation...?!

Well, regarding Pete, his 'dream', his 'drive', is quite interesting actually.
I mean, for the 3 years we worked together, he said 'I'm not interested in Aeva Media, I have no use for this, I'm letting you integrate it into Wedge because you want it, but don't expect my help'.
Then he leaves the project, and... starts his own (paid for) media gallery?! And then at the same time, out of a stunning coincidence, Aeva Media gets removed from the official mod site?

What an example for future generations...

Taught me never to work with someone else again on a free project. I would have released Wedge 3 years ago, if not for his shenanigans... :-/
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: Drunken Clam on July 23rd, 2015, 11:29 PM
Quote from Nao on July 23rd, 2015, 10:33 PM
Then he leaves the project, and... starts his own (paid for) media gallery?! And then at the same time, out of a stunning coincidence, Aeva Media gets removed from the official mod site?
I really did wonder about that at the time! :ph34r:

Still, his gallery was very limited, licence wise, and he's been 'absent' for quite a while since getting a proper job. Sooo.... I'm thinking he'll turn up again soon, have everyone fawning over his 'expertise', then disappear... again.... *yawn* As good as he may be, and with all his self proclaimed 'afflictions', I just don't have any confidence in him. :whistle:
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: Sabre™ on July 24th, 2015, 06:47 AM
Quote from Nao on July 23rd, 2015, 10:33 PM
Please don't bump a topic with a title that might not be related to the current situation...?!
My apologies Nao.
I hadn't even checked to see if that was still the situation, I was actually looking for docs on Wedge to learn more about it, then come across this.
Yeah, I found the site which hosts his media gallery, and had a good laugh at "built by one of the most experienced SMF modders in the world." :lol: Which is true, and modest :lol: but it displays his sense of humour if that was his intent :cool:

I suspect this will be the only time I bump a topic such as this, as I witnessed only the before and after effects of the SMF 'incident', so was quite surprised to read this.

My apologies again :)

Now off to look for Any info on this(wedge) masterpiece that I can find, before I dive into the files.
Cheers :thanks:
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: Sabre™ on July 24th, 2015, 06:54 AM
Quote from Drunken Clam on July 23rd, 2015, 11:29 PM
...I'm thinking he'll turn up again soon, have everyone fawning over his 'expertise', then disappear... again....
Such is life. :bah:
We All have our little dramas, and noone is without flaw.
I enjoy reading and learning from those which are more so advanced in areas than myself.
The more teachers, the better imo. Everybody has a different angle/approach to things, and you only limit Yourself to ignore them.
"Don't concentrate on the finger, or you will miss All that Heavenly Glory..." - Lee Siu Lung aka Lee Jun Fan ;)
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: Wanchope on July 25th, 2015, 11:15 AM
I know it's not of me to say, seriously I really don't want to comment on Arantor despite seeing the event unfold. Despite being boorish he's very effective.
I really don't understand the reason why somebody should be seriously working on a project only to come out to announce that it is never to be unveiled/launched. I sure can remember Arantor's answer to one of the user here -  'The time of the release is unknown, if it will ever be'.
The disagreement between him and Nao is for them to settle but seriously they way Arantor acted on this is just painful.
I really don't like English politics and most people agree with me that England is a very bad role model especially their politics, if you know nothing about English politics, go to smf and see a clear example. The way SMF is turning to MYBB and mybb to smf is just not funny. I can count a few 'matured' staff in smf <NOW>, one of the few been one of the youngest if not the youngest another one now have his own project name Elkarte which to me is miles ahead of smf. Smf use to compete with mybb but presently, the distance between mybb and smf is not even a gap, it's a chasm.
Seeing the indecisiveness of Arantor, it is just an accident waiting to happen making him one of the deciders <your choice word here> of smf.
Sorry if my post drifts off topic.
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: Nao on August 1st, 2015, 09:50 PM
I wouldn't blame England for Pete, just like I'd ask you not to blame France for me... :P
Some of the people I respect the most are British.
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: Wanchope on August 3rd, 2015, 07:49 PM
Quote from Nao on August 1st, 2015, 09:50 PM
I wouldn't blame England for Pete, just like I'd ask you not to blame France for me... :P
Some of the people I respect the most are British.
Not blaming England for him, just said the smf inherited ENGLISH Politics and it is currently destroying it.
...........................................
English -  Nicely Rude.
French -  Totally Rude. :eheh:
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: radu on September 19th, 2015, 01:35 PM
Quote from Nao on July 23rd, 2015, 10:33 PM
And then at the same time, out of a stunning coincidence, Aeva Media gets removed from the official mod site?
As far as I know Aeva was removed from sm.org for "security reasons" and due to it's license that not permitted to post the solution. I know you put a lot of work into that mod and I'm still using it, but I am asking why not release it with a different license instead to let it die slowly?
Title: Re: Arantor back on SMF Team!
Post by: Nao on September 28th, 2015, 10:52 PM
Why not change the license? Because I wanted to be able to remove AeMe from the sm.org without further notice, and encourage people to use Wedge instead, getting v2 for free in the process. In the end I didn't do it because Wedge never really took off.

Anyway it's all a load of bullocks from smf because no one warned me at the time they'd remove it, and no one gave me a chance to post a fixed version.

Heck, no one even told me what the security issue was about. And if I didn't want to fix it is have allowed for someone else to do it.

I'm not a bad guy and I'm not the bad guy in this story. People are still able to download v2 from my site.