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Public area => The Pub => Off-topic => Topic started by: Bunstonious on March 8th, 2015, 10:23 AM

Title: Linux
Post by: Bunstonious on March 8th, 2015, 10:23 AM
So who here uses Linux at all? and if so, what distribution?

Posted from Arch Linux
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: Pandos on March 8th, 2015, 12:24 PM
Debian :D
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: CerealGuy on March 8th, 2015, 12:40 PM
I'm using Arch too, i really like that pacman thing. Before i used debian/ubuntu.
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: Bunstonious on March 8th, 2015, 01:01 PM
Quote from Pandos on March 8th, 2015, 12:24 PM
Debian :D
Nice... I have a MacBook Pro and a Windows 8.1 gaming rig also, but it's good to come back to Linux some times :)
Quote from CerealGuy on March 8th, 2015, 12:40 PM
I'm using Arch too, i really like that pacman thing. Before i used debian/ubuntu.
Yeah Pacman is aaiight, I also like APT, well most of the Distro's I have used have been Debian based so used APT. Arch is nice and "bare bones", and makes me feel all geeky.
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: CerealGuy on March 8th, 2015, 01:15 PM
Quote from Bunstonious on March 8th, 2015, 01:01 PM
Yeah Pacman is aaiight, I also like APT, well most of the Distro's I have used have been Debian based so used APT. Arch is nice and "bare bones", and makes me feel all geeky.
Definetly geeky but worth it :D I think i needed 4 hours to install, but learned a lot. On a fresh installed Debian i wasn't able to install cinnamon, because of many dependency conflicts, so I switched to arch and I'm very happy with it :D
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: Jurien on March 8th, 2015, 01:56 PM
Have a clear preference for Linux Mint and Debian.
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: forumsearch0r on March 8th, 2015, 03:38 PM
I left Linux in 2012 - here's my story(http://forum.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?p=986668#p986668) - and recommend everyone to follow my example. systemd is the last thing you'd ever want to have on your desktops, trust me.
There is close to no reason to still use Linux for anything, except "using Steam without having to pay for a Windows license" (if you haven't had one yet). For all other purposes, there's BSD.

Posted from my Windows desktop while connected to my FreeBSD server, having my OpenBSD desktop in sight. ::)
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: Jurien on March 8th, 2015, 05:33 PM
Your aversion to Linux in general does not interest me at all.
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: forumsearch0r on March 8th, 2015, 05:45 PM
Stop your off-topic spam. This is about Linux, not about whether you like or dislike those who stopped using it.
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: CerealGuy on March 8th, 2015, 07:38 PM
I never understand the hate against systemd. Works very well for me, and if you dont want to use it, dont use it. Pick another distro or build it on your own. If some software depends on systemd, dont use it. If there are enough people who think like you, there will be alternatives.
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: forumsearch0r on March 8th, 2015, 08:05 PM
Quote from CerealGuy on March 8th, 2015, 07:38 PM
Pick another distro or build it on your own.
So, basically, end users who don't want to dig into tech will have to defeat and accept the unwelcome "feature". Non-systemd distributions with a certain appeal to non-programmers are rare at best.
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: Hey Arnold! on March 9th, 2015, 01:13 AM
openSUSE Tumbleweed.
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: Bunstonious on March 9th, 2015, 01:34 AM
Quote from Freñiçh on March 8th, 2015, 01:56 PM
Have a clear preference for Linux Mint and Debian.
Yeah I sort of do still (and I used to like LM, it just feels too "windowsy" for me. Admittedly I installed Cinnamon and it's basically the same, but I like the difficulty of Arch, keeps me on my toes).
Quote from forumsearch0r on March 8th, 2015, 03:38 PM
I left Linux in 2012 - here's my story(http://forum.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?p=986668#p986668) - and recommend everyone to follow my example. systemd is the last thing you'd ever want to have on your desktops, trust me.
There is close to no reason to still use Linux for anything, except "using Steam without having to pay for a Windows license" (if you haven't had one yet). For all other purposes, there's BSD.

Posted from my Windows desktop while connected to my FreeBSD server, having my OpenBSD desktop in sight. ::)
I read the topic, still am unsure as to why you hate linux (did you lose files?) or SystemD, I actually like it.
Quote from forumsearch0r on March 8th, 2015, 08:05 PM
Quote from CerealGuy on March 8th, 2015, 07:38 PM
Pick another distro or build it on your own.
So, basically, end users who don't want to dig into tech will have to defeat and accept the unwelcome "feature". Non-systemd distributions with a certain appeal to non-programmers are rare at best.
The average end user doesn't normally care about SystemD, or hate it.
Quote from Hey Arnold! on March 9th, 2015, 01:13 AM
openSUSE Tumbleweed.
I tried OpenSUSE, I just can't get into it myself.
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: forumsearch0r on March 9th, 2015, 01:53 AM
Quote from Bunstonious on March 9th, 2015, 01:34 AM
I read the topic, still am unsure as to why you hate linux (did you lose files?) or SystemD, I actually like it.
I don't hate Linux, it's just that it doesn't anything better than other available operating systems (or kernels) anymore. (Yes, I lost files - Linux just tends to have close to no QA, leading to banana software, maturing with the customer.) Systemd is a different beast, basically kidnapping most system core functionality and replacing it with abstraction layers which just make things worse.
Quote from Bunstonious on March 9th, 2015, 01:34 AM
The average end user doesn't normally care about SystemD, or hate it.
One day, end users will have forgot that Linux admins could parse their system logs without third-party applications, only using cat and grep from the POSIX kit. Sweet old times. Admittedly, I never used systemd as I jumped from the sinking Linux boat before it was integrated, but the existing virtual machines make me feel sick yet.

openSUSE, that said, is a nice beginner Linux, much better than Ubuntu for what it does - if you like it.
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: Bunstonious on March 9th, 2015, 02:07 AM
Quote from forumsearch0r on March 9th, 2015, 01:53 AM
I don't hate Linux, it's just that it doesn't anything better than other available operating systems (or kernels) anymore. (Yes, I lost files - Linux just tends to have close to no QA, leading to banana software, maturing with the customer.) Systemd is a different beast, basically kidnapping most system core functionality and replacing it with abstraction layers which just make things worse.
That can be said about anything, however why not try and help the alternative movement rather than complain about it?
Quote from forumsearch0r on March 9th, 2015, 01:53 AM
One day, end users will have forgot that Linux admins could parse their system logs without third-party applications,
Why is this an issue as such?
Quote from forumsearch0r on March 9th, 2015, 01:53 AM
Admittedly, I never used systemd as I jumped from the sinking Linux boat before it was integrated, but the existing virtual machines make me feel sick yet.
So you don't like something you haven't used? Seems Legit...
Quote from forumsearch0r on March 9th, 2015, 01:53 AM
openSUSE, that said, is a nice beginner Linux, much better than Ubuntu for what it does - if you like it.
I'm not a beginner.
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: forumsearch0r on March 9th, 2015, 09:03 AM
Quote from Bunstonious on March 9th, 2015, 02:07 AM
why not try and help the alternative movement rather than complain about it?
I do - actively contributing to a couple of open source applications and operating systems. It's just that I don't have the time to establish a better Linux distribution completely on my own.
Quote from Bunstonious on March 9th, 2015, 02:07 AM
Why is this an issue as such?
Have you ever heard of idiocracy?
Seriously though, FLOSS was about transparency one day. Systemd blurs transparency and makes it harder to understand what your system is doing. Also, with systemd enabled, you'll have to accept a pretty lot of default services if you don't want to lose "functionality". Replacing them is deprecated. Choice is made harder.
Quote from Bunstonious on March 9th, 2015, 02:07 AM
So you don't like something you haven't used? Seems Legit...
Missed the last part, haven't you?
Quote from Bunstonious on March 9th, 2015, 02:07 AM
I'm not a beginner.
No one said you were.
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: Bunstonious on March 9th, 2015, 10:27 AM
Quote from forumsearch0r on March 9th, 2015, 09:03 AM
I do - actively contributing to a couple of open source applications and operating systems. It's just that I don't have the time to establish a better Linux distribution completely on my own.
Each to their own. I like the way it works and style of Linux, where as I don't like BSD that much. Personal Preference.
Quote from forumsearch0r on March 9th, 2015, 09:03 AM
Have you ever heard of idiocracy?
Seriously though, FLOSS was about transparency one day. Systemd blurs transparency and makes it harder to understand what your system is doing. Also, with systemd enabled, you'll have to accept a pretty lot of default services if you don't want to lose "functionality". Replacing them is deprecated. Choice is made harder.
But the majority of the other alternatives also have this flaw, on top of them being very encumbered by cost (and closed nature). Each to their own, if you don't like Linux then more power to you mate, enjoy BSD.
Quote from forumsearch0r on March 9th, 2015, 09:03 AM
Missed the last part, haven't you?
*shrug* I guess
Quote from forumsearch0r on March 9th, 2015, 09:03 AM
No one said you were.
It was an implication, perhaps I am reading too much into it.
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: CerealGuy on March 9th, 2015, 10:45 AM
Quote from forumsearch0r on March 8th, 2015, 08:05 PM
Quote from CerealGuy on March 8th, 2015, 07:38 PM
Pick another distro or build it on your own.
So, basically, end users who don't want to dig into tech will have to defeat and accept the unwelcome "feature". Non-systemd distributions with a certain appeal to non-programmers are rare at best.
Endusers who aren't technically interested, don't have a problem with systemd. For them its even better, because they have one central place to search for logs, control services...
For all those people who dont want that, because of the dependencies and i dont know, they should support projects like devuan.
https://devuan.org

I like systemd, but I understand the problem, and I understand people who dont want it. But instead of leaving the ship. better go and change something. Even if you only donate some money, it shows that people are interested in it, and if there are enough, something will change.
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: Bunstonious on March 9th, 2015, 12:07 PM
Interesting write-up http://uselessd.darknedgy.net/ProSystemdAntiSystemd/(http://uselessd.darknedgy.net/ProSystemdAntiSystemd/)
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: forumsearch0r on March 9th, 2015, 01:17 PM
Quote from CerealGuy on March 9th, 2015, 10:45 AM
Even if you only donate some money, it shows that people are interested in it
The problem is that money I donate will most likely go into systemd projects when I donate it to Linux (except Slackware - do they have fundraising at all?). My usual donations go to *BSD and animal recovery projects for this reason. I remember having donated to Mint once - now they joined the systemd ship. :(
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: CerealGuy on March 9th, 2015, 04:28 PM
I'm very optimistic that devuan wont switch to systemd if you donate them some money :eheh:
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: Jurien on March 9th, 2015, 05:21 PM
People who are most stridently objecting to systemd are people who are convinced that the nightmare scenario is inevitable.........None of those so called nightmare scenario have happened yet and will probably never happen,so why all this fuss about something that is surreal.

How comes If systemd really does turn out to be as bad and awful developers not spending their time working on an alternative.??
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: forumsearch0r on March 9th, 2015, 06:22 PM
Large distributors (Red Hat, especially) want to push systemd into Linux (the kernel), they were successful with Gnome yet (which relies on systemd for some functions). An alternative would not only need man-power - they'd also have to convince those who instructed Lennart Poettering to develop systemd to accept their solution instead.

Canonical tried and turned. If even Canonical doesn't have enough "power" to push their own alternative, who actually would?
Of course those scenarios happened yet, widely discussed in FreeBSD forums. Linuxians don't debate much these days?
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: Jurien on March 9th, 2015, 08:24 PM
Linux creator Linus Torvalds is well-known for his strong opinions on many technical things. But when it comes to systemd, the init system that has caused a fair degree of angst in the Linux world, Torvalds is neutral.
Quote from Linus Torvalds
"I don't personally mind systemd, and in fact my main desktop and laptop both run it.
Quote from  forumsearch0r
Of course those scenarios happened yet, widely discussed in FreeBSD forums. Linuxians don't debate much these days?
Quote from Linus Torvalds
And there's a classic term for it in the BSD camps: "bikeshed painting", which is very much about how random people can feel like they have the ability to discuss superficial issues, because everybody feels that they can give an opinion on the color choice. So issues that are superficial get a lot more noise. Then when it comes to actual hard and deep technical decisions, people (sometimes) realise that they just don't know enough, and they won't give that the same kind of mouth-time.
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: forumsearch0r on March 9th, 2015, 08:52 PM
I wouldn't call "a large pseudo-monolithic module with over 20 known security issues captures every single system call as PID 1" "bikeshed painting", but Linus Torvalds is known for thinking not far enough.
I can't see neutrality in the last quote either - where is it?
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: Bunstonious on March 10th, 2015, 12:25 AM
Things take time to refine mate, hell how long have many Microsoft vulnerabilities existed before they were fixed!
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: Hey Arnold! on March 10th, 2015, 12:27 AM
Downloading KaOS
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: forumsearch0r on March 10th, 2015, 01:46 AM
Quote from Bunstonious on March 10th, 2015, 12:25 AM
how long have many Microsoft vulnerabilities existed before they were fixed!
Remember that 23-years old bug in X.org? Microsoft couldn't even beat that.
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: Bunstonious on March 10th, 2015, 03:49 AM
Quote from forumsearch0r on March 10th, 2015, 01:46 AM
Quote from Bunstonious on March 10th, 2015, 12:25 AM
how long have many Microsoft vulnerabilities existed before they were fixed!
Remember that 23-years old bug in X.org? Microsoft couldn't even beat that.
Yeah but what was the impact of it?

At the end of the day it's not of a huge consequence to me, I don't wear tin foil hats, and the operating systems I use are secure enough for me.

I currently use:

1) Windows Gaming PC
2) MacBook Pro - 2011
3) Linux Laptops
4) Linux Server VPS

At the end of the day you use what makes you happy.
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: forumsearch0r on March 10th, 2015, 10:13 AM
You started mentioning Microsoft's occasional slowness when fixing bugs, but it's irrelevant for non-Microsoft software? Interesting.

There's no such thing as "secure enough" in the post-Snowden era.
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: Bunstonious on March 10th, 2015, 10:48 PM
Quote from forumsearch0r on March 10th, 2015, 10:13 AM
You started mentioning Microsoft's occasional slowness when fixing bugs, but it's irrelevant for non-Microsoft software? Interesting.
My word yes... In IT we have to base our decisions on what to fix by Severity (in fact this is also the way that Hospitals work also) and if the issue is severe enough it is given more attention, and receives fixes quicker (also like Hospitals, yes I worked in one).

The thing with most of the "Microsoft Security Bugs" is that they usually allow an intruder to enter your PC and "own it" if you will, how many people "owned" computers through this "non Microsoft bug"? It also exasperates the problem that M$ operating systems have a majority market share which increases the attack visibility (where as this is not so much of an issue for Xorg).

What would be the priority in a busy hospital? And where would those priorities lie?
"I pricked my finger and need a bandaid" ~ Xorg
"Someone cut my arm off... HALP" ~ M$

While i'd love to live in a world where bugs don't exist and everyone lives in "Happy Fantasy Land", this is not the case and priorities are needed some times.
Quote from forumsearch0r on March 10th, 2015, 10:13 AM
There's no such thing as "secure enough" in the post-Snowden era.
Where did you get your tin-foil hat and where can I get one? The ignorance looks to be bliss.
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: forumsearch0r on March 10th, 2015, 11:24 PM
Quote
The thing with most of the "Microsoft Security Bugs" is that they usually allow an intruder to enter your PC
Oh well...(http://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list.php?vendor_id=33&product_id=47&version_id=&page=1&hasexp=0&opdos=0&opec=0&opov=0&opcsrf=0&opgpriv=0&opsqli=0&opxss=0&opdirt=0&opmemc=0&ophttprs=0&opbyp=0&opfileinc=0&opginf=0&cvssscoremin=7&cvssscoremax=0&year=0&month=0&cweid=0&order=1&trc=1277&sha=544260ec3a86a7e17f8b02b39d6342815d8d4bd5)

(And that's just the kernel!)
Quote
the problem that M$ operating systems have a majority market share
Leaving your "M$" flame aside (HALP! MICRO$OFT WANTS TO MAKE MONEY WITH THEIR PRODUCTS! BURN THEM!), guess the Linux market share on smartphones and servers - both are much more interesting targets than ordinary desktops. Then talk again.
Quote
Where did you get your tin-foil hat and where can I get one?
Knowing that government agencies are able to access all of my data if I'm not "paranoid" enough, does that make me a bad guy?
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: Bunstonious on March 11th, 2015, 12:50 AM
Quote from forumsearch0r on March 10th, 2015, 11:24 PM
Oh well...(http://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list.php?vendor_id=33&product_id=47&version_id=&page=1&hasexp=0&opdos=0&opec=0&opov=0&opcsrf=0&opgpriv=0&opsqli=0&opxss=0&opdirt=0&opmemc=0&ophttprs=0&opbyp=0&opfileinc=0&opginf=0&cvssscoremin=7&cvssscoremax=0&year=0&month=0&cweid=0&order=1&trc=1277&sha=544260ec3a86a7e17f8b02b39d6342815d8d4bd5)

(And that's just the kernel!)
*shrugs*, they all have similar vulnerabilities.
Quote from forumsearch0r on March 10th, 2015, 11:24 PM
Leaving your "M$" flame aside (HALP! MICRO$OFT WANTS TO MAKE MONEY WITH THEIR PRODUCTS! BURN THEM!), guess the Linux market share on smartphones and servers - both are much more interesting targets than ordinary desktops. Then talk again.
How am I flaming? My main PC is a Windows box, which I have been happily using for years. And yes, they still have a bigger desktop market share, and no there are not the same level of attacks on Mobile Devices / Linux etc.
Quote from forumsearch0r on March 10th, 2015, 11:24 PM
Knowing that government agencies are able to access all of my data if I'm not "paranoid" enough, does that make me a bad guy?
They have access to that information regardless, you think they are going to target you specifically? The "Government Agency is going to steal your identity!!!" Wake up mate.
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: forumsearch0r on March 11th, 2015, 01:55 AM
Quote from Bunstonious on March 11th, 2015, 12:50 AM
they all have similar vulnerabilities.
Precisely, so Linux is not a better choice than Windows from a technical POV.
Quote from Bunstonious on March 11th, 2015, 12:50 AM
they still have a bigger desktop market share, and no there are not the same level of attacks on Mobile Devices / Linux etc.
Of course not: As Windows has gathered a pretty lot of exploit mitigation techniques since Windows Vista, mobile devices and servers are not only more interesting for those collecting personal data, they even are easier to intrude.
Quote from Bunstonious on March 11th, 2015, 12:50 AM
They have access to that information regardless
Depends. They can go and try to break my OpenBSD box (double-encrypted). Good luck.
Quote from Bunstonious on March 11th, 2015, 12:50 AM
you think they are going to target you specifically?
They don't need to target me in order to gather my data if I'm not cautious enough. They target everyone.
Quote from Bunstonious on March 11th, 2015, 12:50 AM
Wake up mate.
^ This.
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: Bunstonious on March 11th, 2015, 02:04 AM
Quote from forumsearch0r on March 11th, 2015, 01:55 AM
Precisely, so Linux is not a better choice than Windows from a technical POV.
No one said it was, the OP asked if anyone does use it. Like I have said multiple times, personal preference.
Quote from forumsearch0r on March 11th, 2015, 01:55 AM
Of course not: As Windows has gathered a pretty lot of exploit mitigation techniques since Windows Vista, mobile devices and servers are not only more interesting for those collecting personal data, they even are easier to intrude.
But not done often, how easy it could be is irrelevant.
Quote from forumsearch0r on March 11th, 2015, 01:55 AM
Depends. They can go and try to break my OpenBSD box (double-encrypted). Good luck.
*shrug* Whatever floats your boat mate.
Quote from forumsearch0r on March 11th, 2015, 01:55 AM
They don't need to target me in order to gather my data if I'm not cautious enough. They target everyone.
Target them for what?
Quote from forumsearch0r on March 11th, 2015, 01:55 AM
^ This.
*shrug*
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: forumsearch0r on March 11th, 2015, 02:10 PM
Quote from Bunstonious on March 11th, 2015, 02:04 AM
But not done often
Wrong. Many large bot nets consist of captured Linux servers.
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: CerealGuy on March 11th, 2015, 03:46 PM
Quote from forumsearch0r on March 11th, 2015, 02:10 PM
Quote from Bunstonious on March 11th, 2015, 02:04 AM
But not done often
Wrong. Many large bot nets consist of captured Linux servers.
And more consist of captured windows boxes. You can even hack freebsd boxes. But often its not the fault of the os, but of the admin. And no os helps agains a bad admin, so this discussion is not only completely off topic but also totally pointless. No one, not even you, cares about which OS is more secure. The main difference between windows and linux is that its a lot easier to gain admin rights on windows than on linux. To exploit it from outside none of both is really vulnerable. Software is but not the OS (if we talk about the "big" os'es).

You are not able to talk about an OS without some dumbass trying to show why his os decision is so much better. Really, no one cares about which OS you use.

But to get back to the topic, im always struggling a bit with the desktop environment. As mentioned before im using cinnamon in the moment. Im happy with it, but not to happy :D Thought about trying the new xfce version but my system has problems with the testing repos of archlinux... And when we talk about distributions, we often talk about desktops. So which one do you prefer?
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: forumsearch0r on March 11th, 2015, 05:13 PM
Quote from CerealGuy on March 11th, 2015, 03:46 PM
And more consist of captured windows boxes.
What is your source?
Quote from CerealGuy on March 11th, 2015, 03:46 PM
Really, no one cares about which OS you use.
I'd call this a brave thought, given it's posted in a thread about "who of you uses a certain OS?"...
Quote from CerealGuy on March 11th, 2015, 03:46 PM
And when we talk about distributions, we often talk about desktops. So which one do you prefer?
Technically, bspwm (but I'm stuck with awesome wm yet because I'm still not done configuring bspwm).
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: Bunstonious on March 12th, 2015, 11:00 PM
Quote from CerealGuy on March 11th, 2015, 03:46 PM
And more consist of captured windows boxes. You can even hack freebsd boxes. But often its not the fault of the os, but of the admin. And no os helps agains a bad admin, so this discussion is not only completely off topic but also totally pointless. No one, not even you, cares about which OS is more secure. The main difference between windows and linux is that its a lot easier to gain admin rights on windows than on linux. To exploit it from outside none of both is really vulnerable. Software is but not the OS (if we talk about the "big" os'es).
This
Quote from CerealGuy on March 11th, 2015, 03:46 PM
You are not able to talk about an OS without some dumbass trying to show why his os decision is so much better. Really, no one cares about which OS you use.
It happens often
Quote from CerealGuy on March 11th, 2015, 03:46 PM
But to get back to the topic, im always struggling a bit with the desktop environment. As mentioned before im using cinnamon in the moment. Im happy with it, but not to happy :D Thought about trying the new xfce version but my system has problems with the testing repos of archlinux... And when we talk about distributions, we often talk about desktops. So which one do you prefer?
I tried Cinnamon, it seems ok (but it does freeze randomly, I think it's because I have no swap drive / file), was going to try Awesome but I ended up going back to my MacBook so I could talk to my friends on mumble (and play PS3 GTA).
Quote from forumsearch0r on March 11th, 2015, 05:13 PM
I'd call this a brave thought, given it's posted in a thread about "who of you uses a certain OS?"...
It asked if you use a certain OS, since you don't why bash it on the thread!
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: YogiBear on August 31st, 2016, 06:42 PM
Changing to Linux was one of the best day's work I ever did. Mint, Mate and Xfce, Zorin Lite, Bodhi plus always willing to experiment with other distros - Marvellous.

Farewell product keys, activation codes, constant techno-nagging, having to prove my innocence that what I'm using is a legal copy, what seems hours spending updating, not to mention Microsoft's greedy mates at Symantec, McAfee et al, plus my credit card is now on permanent holiday.

I do occasionally use older versions of Windows for some software eg. Arcsoft VHS to DVD transfer or some hardware eg. Canon scanner or Lexmark multi-purpose machines because those companies flatly refuse not only to build drivers for freesource systems but also refuse to release the source codes so said drivers can be built by a third party.

I find Linux to be overall lighter, faster, considerably more reliable, stable and secure though I also use Clamav just in case plus Very sophisticated control over the system can be exercised via the command line and shell.
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: Nao on September 16th, 2016, 11:22 AM
Yeah... On a daily basis, I think it's easier to circumvent the naggers than adapt to the peculiarities of Linux.
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: CerealGuy on September 22nd, 2016, 06:33 PM
Quote from Nao on September 16th, 2016, 11:22 AM
Yeah... On a daily basis, I think it's easier to circumvent the naggers than adapt to the peculiarities of Linux.
Sometimes peculiarities are benefits :angel:

Stick to the tool/os which gets shit done best for you. That's what matters :lol:
Title: Re: Linux
Post by: forumsearch0r on September 23rd, 2016, 04:00 PM
The naggers of Linux (systemd, PulseAudio, the arrogant community, the general lack of security audits - ex.: OpenSSL, bash, ... - and many others) are only a small fraction of the reasons why I don't use Linux. <_<