Wedge

Public area => The Pub => Off-topic => Topic started by: Nao on September 12th, 2012, 11:03 AM

Title: Wedge fan sites? (Was: symfony vs zend)
Post by: Nao on September 12th, 2012, 11:03 AM
Do tell us if we're bothering you... :whistle:

Inter, what's that site in your signature, wedge.su?! If anything, why didn't I hear about it until now? Why didn't you ask for authorization? What are your plans for this? Why use a TLD with a bad reputation(http://www.abuse.ch/?p=3581)?
Title: Re : Wedge fan sites? (Was: symfony vs zend)
Post by: Inter on September 12th, 2012, 11:55 AM
there are plans to make a Russian site for fans of this forum + SMF


Title: Re : Wedge fan sites? (Was: symfony vs zend)
Post by: Nao on September 12th, 2012, 01:08 PM
Then why not 'wedgefans' or something for your domain name?
'wedge.su' is misleading... It's implying an official forum status.
Title: Re : Wedge fan sites? (Was: symfony vs zend)
Post by: Inter on September 12th, 2012, 01:21 PM
For Example:
codeigniter.su
laravel.ru
Title: Re : Wedge fan sites? (Was: symfony vs zend)
Post by: Arantor on September 12th, 2012, 03:42 PM
Are they official sites or fan sites?

It's very misleading because it implies that it is official when it isn't. I'm aware of the number of problems caused in the past by the Russian equivalent of SMF's site, too.
Title: Re : Wedge fan sites? (Was: symfony vs zend)
Post by: Inter on September 12th, 2012, 03:49 PM
:wow:
http://www.xoops.org/
see to footer
Title: Re : Wedge fan sites? (Was: symfony vs zend)
Post by: Arantor on September 12th, 2012, 03:55 PM
/mecalls strawman.
Anyway. Look at the URLs, they don't look like the official URL. The only URLs that actually mimic the main URL as opposed to using a deliberately different domain are the ones that historically cause the most fuck-ups: Korean, Polish, Russian.

You may think you're being wonderful and doing this for us, and had you actually asked first there's a chance it would have been better received, but doing it without our permission is only going to piss us off, especially since I know, as I said, how much crap was caused by this behaviour in the past.

The bottom line: it looks like it's an official site, and it isn't. We do not want to be associated with that, because any crap that happens over there spills over here too. I've seen it before, more than once.

I have no objection to a fan site, in whatever language you want but I do NOT want it with the main Wedge name. wedgefans.ru would be fine, as would wedgeunofficial or whatever. But using the wedge name on its own gives it an air of officialdom that is simply wrong.
Title: Re : Wedge fan sites? (Was: symfony vs zend)
Post by: Nao on September 12th, 2012, 04:00 PM
I'm not 100% against the use of that domain name (more like 75%), but basically: +1 to Pete.
Title: Re : Wedge fan sites? (Was: symfony vs zend)
Post by: Inter on September 12th, 2012, 04:12 PM
shit is everywhere.

Well then, I do not go over there about your website.
I can safely make mods for SMF and enjoy life.
remove my themes and my profile from this site.

 :blink:

Arantor, SMF to ofsayte not need to help me and answer my questions, I'd like something without your help I will do

Title: Re : Wedge fan sites? (Was: symfony vs zend)
Post by: Arantor on September 12th, 2012, 04:40 PM
No-one's asking you to come over here, you did that all by yourself.

Go nuts and make mods for SMF, god knows there's a shortage of people over there.

Let me explain what my problem is, because I don't think you're understanding. You're thinking that an unofficial forum is fine. It is. But when you make it looks like the official forum, people will think it IS the official forum. simplemachines.ru looks just like simplemachines.org/community/ and people WILL get confused.

Is it too much to ask that an unofficial community doesn't actively pretend to be the main forum just in another language?
Quote
remove my themes and my profile from this site.
You didn't post any themes, so nothing to remove. As far as removing profiles go, we don't do that after some events not that long ago.
Quote
Arantor, SMF to ofsayte not need to help me and answer my questions, I'd like something without your help I will do
Let me explain something to you that I doubt you knew before. It has, in the past, been discussed about getting simplemachines.ru closed down because of the reasons I've mentioned. If it didn't actively try to pretend to be the main site - different domain name (not just a different tld), and different theme, there wouldn't be a problem.

Turn it around. If you went away and made something awesome, would you want people making a site that directly copied it? Would you honestly be happy if I found your site and copied it just changing the domain name and language to English?
Title: Re : Wedge fan sites? (Was: symfony vs zend)
Post by: Inter on September 12th, 2012, 04:54 PM
https://www.phpbb.com/support/intl/

there is not only the Poles

arantor is nazi?
Posted: September 12th, 2012, 04:44 PM

all my posts and my profile has been deleted from this forum :P
Posted: September 12th, 2012, 04:46 PM
Quote
simplemachines.ru closed down
site has always worked and is working
Title: Re : Wedge fan sites? (Was: symfony vs zend)
Post by: Arantor on September 12th, 2012, 04:57 PM
Except that phpBB's sites all do EXACTLY what I'm saying - almost every one of the sites has a different domain name. What is so hard for you to understand about this?
Quote
site has always worked and is working
Yes, I know, but it has been discussed getting it closed down due to trademark violations and various problems it has caused.

I can't force you to stay but apparently neither can I get through this fairly simple point that I don't want sites pretending to be things they're not. I'm not saying you can't do what you want to do, I'm just saying I don't like the domain name you're using because it makes it seem more official than it actually is.
Title: Re : Wedge fan sites? (Was: symfony vs zend)
Post by: Inter on September 12th, 2012, 04:58 PM
Quote
Go nuts and make mods for SMF, god knows there's a shortage of people over there.
and who to you granted the right me to offend? I didn't speak that there are no people
Title: Re : Wedge fan sites? (Was: symfony vs zend)
Post by: Arantor on September 12th, 2012, 05:00 PM
That wasn't an insult. You said you were going to go make mods for SMF. I was being enthusiastic about that fact because there aren't that many people making mods for SMF these days and more people would actually be beneficial.

I would also add, it is crap like this that made me try to quit a few weeks back, because people can't understand simple things about politeness of others' work.
Title: Re : Wedge fan sites? (Was: symfony vs zend)
Post by: Inter on September 12th, 2012, 05:03 PM
http://www.phpbb.com/
https://www.phpbb.de/
http://www.phpbb.fr/

The same situation

Posted: September 12th, 2012, 05:01 PM

I delete my posts and my profile from this site
I will not use your engine (so you do not worry)
Title: Re : Wedge fan sites? (Was: symfony vs zend)
Post by: Arantor on September 12th, 2012, 05:28 PM
Except that it isn't the same situation.

phpbb.com is the official site.
phpbb.de is actually run by the team - note that one of the phpbb.de admins is ALSO one of the phpbb.com core team, being one of the software developers.
phpbb.fr is also run by one of the team members, specifically a member of the main Styles team.


To be honest, though, I don't know why I'm bothering arguing. It's going to happen one way or the other, no matter whether I think it's appropriate or not. And on top every time something like this happens, I end up wondering whether I'm still doing more harm to this project by staying, than would happen if I actually left.
Title: Re : Wedge fan sites? (Was: symfony vs zend)
Post by: nolsilang on September 13th, 2012, 01:47 AM
Enthusiasm aside, I believe a local or fans site is too premature at this time.

This is anecdotal : but some of the localized/fans open source site are not maintained after some time(at least in my own country), maybe it's not gaining any traction or lack of knowledge to helping someone.

I agree that if a fan site(with wedge.[YourCountryTLD] should not misled user, because I had seen some of fan runned forum give a bad reputation. Wedge.org cannot control what they do and say in those forum, and it will be influence people perception at least in their country. PHPBB as Arantor said, some of them runned by official member, so some standard can be expected.

Official subforum in wedge.org is maybe more suitable.
Title: Re : Wedge fan sites? (Was: symfony vs zend)
Post by: godboko71 on September 13th, 2012, 06:58 AM
Quote from Arantor on September 12th, 2012, 05:28 PM
on top every time something like this happens, I end up wondering whether I'm still doing more harm to this project by staying, than would happen if I actually left.
The person your talking to doesn't understand English very well, doesn't matter how well you explain what you mean. Do not worry about it, sadly it's more misunderstanding then anything. Without someone who could translate clearly into their native language it is a moot point. They over reacted, you harmed nothing. You tried to explain they don't get it end of story.
Title: Re: Re : Wedge fan sites? (Was: symfony vs zend)
Post by: Nao on September 13th, 2012, 07:58 AM
Quote from godboko71 on September 13th, 2012, 06:58 AM
They over reacted, you harmed nothing.
Hey -- nobody overreacted. We just talked. I just asked him to justify his reason for buying that particular domain name.
I'm just asking that people be sensitive about that kind of matter. i.e., either they use a proper domain name like 'wedgefans' or 'wedgeunofficial', or they clearly state in the *site header* that it isn't an official website. ("Unofficial Wedge support forum", etc...)

Those who overreact are those who remove their accounts / posts / actions when they don't like where a conversation is going. Now that's overreacting. Pete even did that a few times over at sm.org :P
Title: Re: Re : Wedge fan sites? (Was: symfony vs zend)
Post by: Nao on September 13th, 2012, 08:02 AM
Quote from Arantor on September 12th, 2012, 05:28 PM
I end up wondering whether I'm still doing more harm to this project by staying, than would happen if I actually left.
Well, for starters, someone would have to finish whatever features you were working on by yourself... i.e. making a calendar plugin, IPv6 support (which apparently is now supported in SMF 2.1 as well, but to what extent I don't know...), plugins replacing mods, moderation rules vs post unapproval, etc, etc...
Some of which I don't even want to touch with a ten-foot pole. Even because I have no interest in them, or because they're so complex, I just wouldn't feel up to the task. :^^;:

And let's be honest -- say you leave the project. Then I release it. Then you use it. Then you start helping again. Until you get to be in the team again...
Title: Re: Wedge fan sites? (Was: symfony vs zend)
Post by: Inter on September 13th, 2012, 08:20 AM
If you do not like the Russian site then why not write about it in the official site of the Russian-speaking sub-forum smf?
if I had seen before, that he did wrong that would not create this.
Who told you that I do official site? where I live people do not look at the domain, and the fact that is on the site and are looking for a site through Google and not by a beautiful name.
you have discussed?
I can represent you if you do not have anything?
on my site says that I have to present?
I imagine what that country? that does not exist?
Millions of people write notes on the engines in their blogs, and that now they must ask someone permission to do so?
fan of the word in my language uachno rhymes with stupid
Title: Re: Wedge fan sites? (Was: symfony vs zend)
Post by: Nao on September 13th, 2012, 05:27 PM
Are you talking to me...?
Quote from Inter on September 13th, 2012, 08:20 AM
Who told you that I do official site? where I live people do not look at the domain, and the fact that is on the site and are looking for a site through Google and not by a beautiful name.
"In Soviet Russia, you don't look at the .su domain name. The .su domain name looks at you."

:ph34r:
Quote
Millions of people write notes on the engines in their blogs, and that now they must ask someone permission to do so?
You don't have to seek permission to mention the name Wedge. But using it to imply that this is an official website is a breach of our trademark.

There's a reason I'm discussing this with you now, rather than later... It's to ensure that everyone's happy in the end.
Quote
fan of the word in my language uachno rhymes with stupid
Very well.
Title: Re: Wedge fan sites? (Was: symfony vs zend)
Post by: Kindred on September 13th, 2012, 10:09 PM
They go through this regularly on SMF... it's incredibly frustrating.

i.e. SMFitalia claims to be the "official" italian support site for smf and even republishes smf announcements in italian from their own site.

people sign up at "freesmfforums" and assume they are associated with and supported by the official smf site...

all I can do is bang my head on the desk, multiple times....

The only thing SMF does these days is request that any site using the SMF tradmarked name, etc in the forum, url or site name state that they are not officially associated with Simple Machines. I don't think it is too much to ask...   and it looks like Nao is just asking for the same thing.

And sorry, inter...   if someone is looking for Wedge in russian, yes, they most certainly will look at the URL and assume that wedge.su is an official site, unless it states otherwise.
Title: Re: Wedge fan sites? (Was: symfony vs zend)
Post by: Norodo on September 14th, 2012, 01:15 AM
Slap a tag that says "unofficial" on the logo and call it a day.
Title: Re: Wedge fan sites? (Was: symfony vs zend)
Post by: Kindred on September 14th, 2012, 03:01 AM
or even a nice statement indicating
"This is an unofficial Wedge fan site. This site is not associated with nor endorsed by Wedge"
Title: Re: Re : Wedge fan sites? (Was: symfony vs zend)
Post by: godboko71 on September 14th, 2012, 04:20 AM
Quote from Nao on September 13th, 2012, 07:58 AM
Quote from godboko71 on September 13th, 2012, 06:58 AM
They over reacted, you harmed nothing.
Hey -- nobody overreacted. We just talked. I just asked him to justify his reason for buying that particular domain name.
I'm just asking that people be sensitive about that kind of matter. i.e., either they use a proper domain name like 'wedgefans' or 'wedgeunofficial', or they clearly state in the *site header* that it isn't an official website. ("Unofficial Wedge support forum", etc...)

Those who overreact are those who remove their accounts / posts / actions when they don't like where a conversation is going. Now that's overreacting. Pete even did that a few times over at sm.org :P
My post was in no way directed at you, sorry for the misunderstanding.
Title: Re: Wedge fan sites? (Was: symfony vs zend)
Post by: Inter on September 15th, 2012, 10:26 AM
If you want a domain I can sell it to you
or can be exchanged for a different domain, as this to me is no longer needed

I personally do not like the fans' domains
too long ugly name

su domains in my country to buy a domain name for beauty
I can not officially represent the country if it does not exist
Soviet Russia in the past

I have not written anywhere that officially represent your site
you judge me for what I did not commit

Kindred, su domain no one is looking
Posted: September 15th, 2012, 10:15 AM

(click to show/hide)
wedge.travel    
wedge.aero
wedge.pro
wedge.ag
wedge.hn    
wedge.lc    
wedge.mn
wedge.sc    
wedge.vc
Title: Re: Wedge fan sites? (Was: symfony vs zend)
Post by: nolsilang on September 15th, 2012, 11:45 AM
Just offering my opinion. :)
Personally I like your initiative[1] for wedge fan site. But like I stated before, It's still relatively too early to create a localized fan site.
Quote from Inter on September 15th, 2012, 10:26 AM
I personally do not like the fans' domains
too long ugly name

su domains in my country to buy a domain name for beauty
I can not officially represent the country if it does not exist
Soviet Russia in the past

I have not written anywhere that officially represent your site
you judge me for what I did not commit
Kindred, su domain no one is looking
Yes I understand your point, but with a fan suffix the site intention and relationship with wedge.org is clear.

The others is not judging you, but they worried about the implication from your domain name and what will be happen in the future based on their own experience as SMF contributor
Quote from Inter on September 15th, 2012, 10:26 AM
Posted: September 15th, 2012, 10:15 AM

(click to show/hide)
wedge.travel    
wedge.aero
wedge.pro
wedge.ag
wedge.hn    
wedge.lc    
wedge.mn
wedge.sc    
wedge.vc
 1. I want to create one too in my language
I don't know what should I making of from this list? Should wedge registered all the available ones?
Title: Re: Wedge fan sites? (Was: symfony vs zend)
Post by: Arantor on September 15th, 2012, 04:01 PM
Quote
I have not written anywhere that officially represent your site
you judge me for what I did not commit
No, I judge it on how others will receive it.

If you don't say it's unofficial, people assume it IS official, even if you don't say it is official. Thus you need to say it is unofficial.