Wedge

Public area => The Pub => Off-topic => Topic started by: dorje on March 29th, 2011, 02:56 PM

Title: Hi all!
Post by: dorje on March 29th, 2011, 02:56 PM
Just happy to join the community! :D

Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Nao on March 29th, 2011, 02:57 PM
Welcome everyone. :)

Feel free to share your feelings about the project!
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: willemjan on March 29th, 2011, 03:14 PM
An big hi from me too! :cool:
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Arantor on March 29th, 2011, 03:31 PM
Hey :)
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: dorje on March 29th, 2011, 03:36 PM
Quote from Nao/Gilles on March 29th, 2011, 02:57 PM
Welcome everyone. :)

Feel free to share your feelings about the project!
Well, let me tell that I've first read about that project maybe... 1 week ago? On my forum I wanted to change the coppermine gallery, bridged with smf... So I've finally read all about aeva media on smf forum and... off course, I read about bad things happened with smf staff and about the fork.

My first thought was "what? a fork? isn't maybe too much source code to manage for only 2 people?"

But after that I've read your source code (aeva gallery) - and than I've read that the other guy is Arantor (the guy which had answered to all my questions about modding smf on the smf community forum... :D). And so my second thought was "ok, they are the RIGHT 2 guys for a fork ;)".

Anyway, I've read about your guidelines and I've to say that I have similar feelings about what should be the direction to follow. So I really appreciate the work you are doing and... I'll be happy to help in some way, if possible. :)
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: DoctorMalboro on March 29th, 2011, 04:22 PM
Hello.

First of all I want to say this is a great idea that both of you join and start making a fork of SMF, because I know that both know what will made wedge a great forum software. So I wish you the best.

I really like the way you introduce the software in your FAQs and stickies. You both have good points and solid ideas (and I see arantor already spam in the top secret boards :P ).

Just with a simple registration you can see many cool stuff like the draft, javascript auto-save and personal text change (which is really cool).

My only doubt is... This is the official theme of wedge? Or this is just a nice simple theme only for the forum?
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Arantor on March 29th, 2011, 04:27 PM
Well, this isn't running Wedge yet. It's running the stuff Nao added on his site over the years - including the theme.

Wedge has its own theme, which looks familiar but different, and is still evolving. The auto save... I did that so much better in Wedge (like making it not braindead, and making it work on personal messages)

The personal text stuff is going to happen before long in Wedge itself :)
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: DoctorMalboro on March 29th, 2011, 04:30 PM
Cool, it also appears the custom profile and google maps location?

I like the new aspect of the profile. It's really fresh and something that doesn't leave wedge socialization behind...
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: chilly on March 29th, 2011, 04:35 PM
hard to find this board Oo
looking at boardindex shows nothing :P

hi everyone ;)
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Dr. Deejay on March 29th, 2011, 04:37 PM
Hi guys :)
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: willemjan on March 29th, 2011, 04:41 PM
Quote from chilly on March 29th, 2011, 04:35 PM
hard to find this board Oo
looking at boardindex shows nothing :P

hi everyone ;)
It is indeed hard to find this board LOL
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: spoogs on March 29th, 2011, 04:43 PM
Hi all  8-)
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: chilly on March 29th, 2011, 06:12 PM
clicking the board name brings me to my profile ;)

don't get me wrong. I'm more than happy to see something of all the work you have been doing. Waiting to get more to see ;)
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Arantor on March 29th, 2011, 06:15 PM
Most of the unusual French strings are still present because they were never converted into English to start with, as this was based on Noisen's code which is predominantly French.

Odd, the board list hasn't been expanded with The Pub on the QuickBoardList... (but it has for others)
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Dismal Shadow on March 29th, 2011, 06:20 PM
O_O I see live people.
Since was Wedge announced to the public?

@chilly The forum we are on is not Wedge...at least not yet.
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Arantor on March 29th, 2011, 06:21 PM
Since earlier today :)
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Dismal Shadow on March 29th, 2011, 06:22 PM
Quote from Arantor on March 29th, 2011, 06:21 PM
Since earlier today :)
Mind posting a link?
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Arantor on March 29th, 2011, 06:29 PM
http://aeva.noisen.com/6180/announcement-fork-you-smf/msg251752/#msg251752

I just linked/quoted it on arantor.org shortly thereafter. But it's still kind of underground...
apart from 44k backlinks from sm.org

Wait until we have something to show people, then we can promote it much better :P
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: garou on March 29th, 2011, 06:39 PM
Hi Guys!!!

Its great to see at least one more step towards going public. With everything I have read at Noisen and whats public here I'm very excited and have high hopes for you guys. I think this thing is going to be amazing.
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Nao on March 29th, 2011, 07:05 PM
Quote from DoctorMalboro on March 29th, 2011, 04:22 PM
First of all I want to say this is a great idea that both of you join and start making a fork of SMF, because I know that both know what will made wedge a great forum software. So I wish you the best.
Thanks. Yeah, interestingly either of us are probably the only guys who could manage an entire fork alone. The fact that we teamed up turned this sweet impossible dream into a nightmare of ambitious reality :)

Plus, honestly I was a bit eager to show that the SMF team kicking me out for not "being able to work in a team" was just bullshit. It was just politics, and I'm still convinced of it. Pete and I make a great team, really. In the future, once Wedge is stable, we'll probably add new developers to the team, too. We already have 4-5 people under scrutiny eheh.
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I really like the way you introduce the software in your FAQs and stickies. You both have good points and solid ideas (and I see arantor already spam in the top secret boards :P ).
Heresy! I'm still the top spamm poster here :niark:
Not by much, though. It's amusing that even if we don't always post in the same topics, we manage to stay within each other's view in terms of spamming!
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Just with a simple registration you can see many cool stuff like the draft, javascript auto-save and personal text change (which is really cool).
FAQ. Wedge.org is based off Noisen.com's codebase, which is my own custom SMF. Much of this code isn't on par with my current quality checks, so I've rewritten a lot of it -- and Pete has, too.
Also, the thought system is private here. i.e. if you're not a Friend, you can't view convos.
Quote
My only doubt is... This is the official theme of wedge? Or this is just a nice simple theme only for the forum?
Nope, it's a horrible theme I cooked up very hastily back in August. I made a few tweaks to it but not much. It still sucks, compared to my work on Wedge's theme. Really. Well, I'm very happy with Wedge's Wine styling at the very least. I made three themes for Wedge so far, and Pete is currently working on one (based off Wine). We'll discuss stylings later. Basically, they're Wedge's equivalent of SMF2's variants. Only, much, much more powerful and way cooler.
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Nao on March 29th, 2011, 07:27 PM
Quote from chilly on March 29th, 2011, 06:12 PM
clicking the board name brings me to my profile ;)

don't get me wrong. I'm more than happy to see something of all the work you have been doing. Waiting to get more to see ;)
Oh, feel free to point out any details like that.
I don't know where to start fixing the date thing (it's probably a setting on my server, I have no time to deal with it), but I fixed the Visitors text, thanks. Really, the Noisen codebase is hardcoded in French here and there, it's ugly and I'm sorry about that, it's just that no one ever complains about it... Maybe they think it's exotic :P
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Masterd on March 29th, 2011, 08:34 PM
Hello! :)
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: live627 on March 29th, 2011, 09:23 PM
Hello to all. Nice to see some familiar names coming here :)
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: wluckie on March 29th, 2011, 09:43 PM
I will be waiting for Wedge with baited breath.
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Masterd on March 29th, 2011, 09:44 PM
Quote from live627 on March 29th, 2011, 09:23 PM
Hello to all. Nice to see some familiar names coming here :)
Indeed. That makes me feel like I'm at home.
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Snape on March 29th, 2011, 09:55 PM
Long time lurker, first time poster...

Looking forward to Wedge- started running phpbb, moved to SMF when it was "born", and have been trudging through it ever since.  What sells wedge the most for me is the plug-in architecture.  From RC to RC w/ SMF, I've basically had to drop themes and mods either from difficulty re-customizing after each upgrade or from authors finally going with the 'I'm waiting until 2.0 final' approach.  I have a relatively small, private forum community, but what has been added to SMF is generally there for a reason.

Sadly, I'm not much of a coder, so I'm more of an intrigued follower and cultist in the making...but I'm interested in kicking the tires as soon as ones are available...
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: live627 on March 29th, 2011, 10:05 PM
More coders isn't what's needed; Nao made it very clear that he and Pete can manage it themselves. What they will need help on is people to shield them from all the intruding noobs constantly whining for this or that or they won't switch... or something to that effect.
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: and on March 29th, 2011, 10:28 PM

Hi all
I'm with you
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: MultiformeIngegno on March 29th, 2011, 11:02 PM
Welcome everybody! It's nice to "see" new people!! ;)
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Xarcell on March 29th, 2011, 11:22 PM
More Coders - Fail!

Arantor and Nao know what they are doing. I think adding another coder will just make things more complicated. "Too many hands in the candy bowl" is what I always like to say. I mean honestly, they are on a different level. No offense to other coders, but I think it would slow things down rather than speed things up. Perhaps after a gold release, adding more developers would be the idea, with Nao and Arantor being the Lead Consultants/Coders or something.
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Dismal Shadow on March 29th, 2011, 11:24 PM
Quote from live627 on March 29th, 2011, 10:05 PM
More coders isn't what's needed; Nao made it very clear that he and Pete can manage it themselves. What they will need help on is people to shield them from all the intruding noobs constantly whining for this or that or they won't switch... or something to that effect.
We are lab rats after all. :niark:
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: and on March 29th, 2011, 11:28 PM
Quote from Xarcell on March 29th, 2011, 11:22 PM
More Coders - Fail!
enough for me to watch
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Nao on March 29th, 2011, 11:55 PM
Quote from Xarcell on March 29th, 2011, 11:22 PM
Arantor and Nao know what they are doing. I think adding another coder will just make things more complicated. "Too many hands in the candy bowl" is what I always like to say. I mean honestly, they are on a different level. No offense to other coders, but I think it would slow things down rather than speed things up.
TBH, we already had an experience that lasted for a few days and didn't end very well, and I felt so horribly bad about having to put an end to it (I still do), that it convinced me the current team of 2 developers and many friends is best until further notice.
Quote
Perhaps after a gold release, adding more developers would be the idea, with Nao and Arantor being the Lead Consultants/Coders or something.
Just as I said. ;)
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: texasman1979 on March 30th, 2011, 02:22 AM
10 400 Posts in 442 Topics by 58 Members. Latest Member: texasman1979

i had to make it 10401 :P

sup all :)

edit:
i made a signature, where is it? lol did yall eat it. :(
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: live627 on March 30th, 2011, 02:28 AM
hey there :)
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Cassiel on March 30th, 2011, 02:30 AM
Glad to finally be able to read up on progress here. I'm excited to see what happens. :)
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: MultiformeIngegno on March 30th, 2011, 08:01 AM
Yeah! We all are! ;)
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: PantsManUK on March 30th, 2011, 02:00 PM
Hej! And bon journee a tous while I'm at it (apologies for the lack of accents les Francophons). Nice to have a name to go with an idea at last (and I'd never complain about a project name, Wedge is as good as anything else in my book).
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Nao on March 30th, 2011, 03:55 PM
Quote from texasman1979 on March 30th, 2011, 02:22 AM
i made a signature, where is it? lol did yall eat it. :(
Not me. And not anyone else, I suspect.
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Arantor on March 30th, 2011, 04:02 PM
Wasn't me either, which rules out deliberate action - so it's either a software error or user error...
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Nao on March 30th, 2011, 04:03 PM
Yeah.
Speaking about software error -- I fixed the "à" in the time format. I forgot about SMF's option to set a default timezone and it was hardcoded in French once again.
It's very odd because it means it doesn't support multilingual default time formats. Do we have this in Wedge anyway? :P
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Arantor on March 30th, 2011, 04:04 PM
I can't remember if we did that or not, actually...
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Gary on March 30th, 2011, 06:04 PM
Howdy. People recognise me, so I don't need to introduce myself right? :P

Hey look, my badges from SM.org got re-made. :P
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: texasman1979 on March 30th, 2011, 06:19 PM
Hi
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Lesmond on March 30th, 2011, 07:01 PM
Hi All, Just thought I would drop in to hello, Looking good here, cant wait to see the finished product  :cool:
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Nao on March 30th, 2011, 07:07 PM
Quote from Gazmanafc on March 30th, 2011, 06:04 PM
Howdy. People recognise me, so I don't need to introduce myself right? :P
Hi!
Quote
Hey look, my badges from SM.org got re-made. :P
Yeah, I just loved them so I rebuilt them. :) (Remember how I made my own "Consulting Developer" badge last year? Well, I'd kept the custom background so I just re-used that.)
Posted: March 30th, 2011, 07:06 PM
Quote from texasman1979 on March 30th, 2011, 06:19 PM
That could if it is currently possible push wedge number one world wide for performance almost over night.
Keep in mind that the fastest code is the code you don't run, actually ;)
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Gary on March 30th, 2011, 07:10 PM
I could've saved you a load of effort, if you asked me. Anyway, what's done is done. Though, now I can finally answer your question you PM'ed me on Runic's forum, about where to place credit about them (so don't think I was ignoring you), a small line in here(http://wedge.org/pub/faq/6360/faq-who-s-working-on-it/) will suffice.

I'm glad that people liked them.

Further, I look forward to the time where I get to play with Wedge. :P
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: texasman1979 on March 30th, 2011, 09:11 PM
The only thing i can think of is a static template system or using mysql for non standard caching of pages. Which my forum blocks content is stored html and all for the sole purpose of echoing a record instead of processing a page. It seems to be very fast, especially when i take out line breaks and other unnecesary characters, and mysql has built in memcaching along with memcached. Like i say, i have no doubt ill be thuroughly impressed with yalls work. So hurry up with the beta already. :)
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Dismal Shadow on March 30th, 2011, 09:56 PM
Quote from texasman1979 on March 30th, 2011, 09:11 PM
So hurry up with the beta already. :)
It will need to go though alpha stage first before it goes beta.
There is a saying: "Good things  come to those who wait."
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Masterd on March 30th, 2011, 11:03 PM
Quote from Dismal Shadow on March 30th, 2011, 09:56 PM
There is a saying: "Good things  come to those who wait."
I'm waiting...
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Arantor on March 30th, 2011, 11:46 PM
Sorry, kid. You got the gift, but it looks like you're waiting for something.

[inevitably] What?

Your next life, maybe. Who knows? That's the way these things go.
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: texasman1979 on March 31st, 2011, 03:39 AM
just make sure i have a copy before arantor and nao has 50000 posts on this forum, so you got about a week. lol
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: David8 on March 31st, 2011, 06:45 AM
just a quick greeting from a SMF board owner/admin who would really like a cleaner product.  The mod system in SMF is absurd.  I will be watching and waiting for Wedge with great interest.
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Nao on March 31st, 2011, 10:43 AM
Quote from Gazmanafc on March 30th, 2011, 07:10 PM
I could've saved you a load of effort, if you asked me.
I remember I asked for authorization didn't I...? As for making the badges proper, it's not like it's a huge task. It didn't take me more than a couple of hours to build the badges from scratch.
Quote
Anyway, what's done is done.
And I had fun doing them, so everything's good.
I'll need to make a few more in the future but for now I'm happy with just Developer/Friend/Consultant.
Quote
Though, now I can finally answer your question you PM'ed me on Runic's forum, about where to place credit about them (so don't think I was ignoring you), a small line in here(http://wedge.org/pub/faq/6360/faq-who-s-working-on-it/) will suffice.
Done!
Quote
Further, I look forward to the time where I get to play with Wedge. :P
Put the pressure on SMF! Without the switch to BSD we can't do a thing ;) (Except releasing Wedge as a mod that will basically delete all of the SMF files and replace them with Wedge files... But it's ugly and doesn't let you try both at the same time, which is our ultimate goal.)
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Masterd on March 31st, 2011, 10:46 AM
Kindred said that this thing with license will probably be established by the end of this month.
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: willemjan on March 31st, 2011, 10:47 AM
Where did he say that? Link?
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Masterd on March 31st, 2011, 10:51 AM
http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=424413.0
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Arantor on March 31st, 2011, 10:53 AM
Well, that's got *today* then...

The licence change won't happen today, though. All that means is that the devs might actually do something again.
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Masterd on March 31st, 2011, 10:55 AM
I still hope that something will happen today.
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: willemjan on March 31st, 2011, 10:55 AM
Quote from kindred
We hope to have that resolved within this month!
I am quite sceptical about hopes. I hope to find an bag with 1 milion dollar in it next month. Guess what the odds are that I find one?
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Masterd on March 31st, 2011, 10:56 AM
About 1:1000000?
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Nao on March 31st, 2011, 10:57 AM
(I shouldn't have merged my two posts above... Now I can't split this conversation into a new topic.)
Quote from texasman1979 on March 30th, 2011, 09:11 PM
The only thing i can think of is a static template system or using mysql for non standard caching of pages. Which my forum blocks content is stored html and all for the sole purpose of echoing a record instead of processing a page.
There's no magical solution for static pages.
Or you could use Templeet (http://templeet.org), I built Cynagames.com around it back in 2003 or 2004 (even made my own forum using it at the time). Of course I ended up replacing the forum with SMF, because in the end it's too hard to maintain static pages out of dynamic contents. You basically can't store anything personal, or you'd have to cache every single goddamn page for a few seconds -- that would kill the file system for close to no gains.
Obviously, Apache fares better at showing static pages, but it's only useful if you have a very slow server and/or many hits. Otherwise, you might as well use PHP. If you have so many hits that you'd need a server upgrade, you probably should upgrade it really.

As for improving performance in comparison with SMF, yes, Wedge is faster in some areas (apparent speed on page load, no more PHP4/MySQL3 support, optimized markup, and many other things.)
And slower in others, e.g. jQuery or object encapsulation (it's slower by a few percents).
Basically, we're making sure that it's faster where it matters, and that if it has to be slower, it's for the benefit of everyone (e.g. cleaner code. It will be especially apparent in our smcFunc replacement, new BBC system and a powerful CSS preprocessor written from scratch.)
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It seems to be very fast, especially when i take out line breaks and other unnecesary characters, and mysql has built in memcaching along with memcached.
Just enable caching in SMF... Level 3 is the highest IIRC. It should cache so many things.
Quote
Like i say, i have no doubt ill be thuroughly impressed with yalls work. So hurry up with the beta already. :)
Tell that to SMF. As we said multiple times, we can't release a single byte of code to the public without SMF going BSD first.
Perhaps going public was our way of reminding everyone that if we're not releasing yet, it's not for lack of a releasable product.
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Nao on March 31st, 2011, 11:00 AM
Quote from Masterd on March 31st, 2011, 10:55 AM
I still hope that something will happen today.
Well, technically something big happened at the end of this month -- only it happened at wedge.org, not at sm.org :P
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Masterd on March 31st, 2011, 11:03 AM
That' not a big thing. That's a huge thing.
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Artur on March 31st, 2011, 02:35 PM
Hello at all :)

I'm the person with the same nick on noisen  :whistle:
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Nao on March 31st, 2011, 02:46 PM
I got that :eheh:
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: DoctorMalboro on March 31st, 2011, 02:52 PM
And which license will wedge have?
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Arantor on March 31st, 2011, 03:07 PM
Initially, it will use a modified form of SMF's original licence; the idea being to protect Wedge's code from being reused by parties we would prefer it wasn't used by. I think you can guess who I'm referring to.

After that... there's no fixed plan but moving to BSD was the goal, I believe, or possibly LGPL. Nothing firm, nothing decided.
Title: Re: Hi all!
Post by: Nao on March 31st, 2011, 03:33 PM
As Pete said.

Alpha and Beta sessions: Wedge license (i.e. current SMF license, + one extra clause for some people)

1.0 Gold: Wedge license, or BSD, or LGPL (depending on feedback, and our own experiences during the alpha/beta, and really the spur of the moment.)

Even if we release 1.0 under the Wedge license, we will still keep considering BSD and LGPL for any further major releases. It is our intention to always keep an eye on a possible BSD/LGPL switch. As long as it's not GPL really. And we'll make sure that any further developers we 'hire' is made aware of the potential license change.