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Public area => Features => The Pub => Features: Upcoming => Topic started by: Arantor on May 31st, 2012, 02:32 PM

Title: Q&A enhancement: multiple answers and multiple languages
Post by: Arantor on May 31st, 2012, 02:32 PM
After we had some... interesting... comments regarding the Q&A at Noisen, I figured I'd solve it once and for all.

So here's what I'm currently working on, making the anti-spam Q&A support multiple languages and support multiple answers. The UI's the first part I'm tackling and so far this is where I'm up to. It's not quite as pretty as it could be, but it certainly seems to be coming together.
Title: Re: Q&A enhancement: multiple answers and multiple languages
Post by: Dragooon on May 31st, 2012, 02:36 PM
What can I say?

/melikes this
Title: Re: Q&A enhancement: multiple answers and multiple languages
Post by: PantsManUK on May 31st, 2012, 04:49 PM
/melikes it very much!
(MST3K reference... Props if you get it without having to Google it)
Title: Re: Q&A enhancement: multiple answers and multiple languages
Post by: Nao on May 31st, 2012, 04:56 PM
Button margins could help being fixed, though ;)
Title: Re: Q&A enhancement: multiple answers and multiple languages
Post by: Arantor on May 31st, 2012, 05:00 PM
I did say it wasn't very pretty ;) It's also very much not finished right now, of course. But it's certainly going to be an improvement once it's finished.
Title: Re: Q&A enhancement: multiple answers and multiple languages
Post by: Arantor on May 31st, 2012, 10:18 PM
I've done some work on this one, tweaking it a bit. The admin page is quite capable of loading/saving entries at this point, I just have to modify the core verification code to use it.

But this is the sort of thing I had in mind when I decided to implement it. :)

(Btw, the number of questions is limited to the fewest in the supplied languages, e.g. if you put in two English questions and one French, it won't let you ask users for 2 questions since French only has one. The remaining plan is to try and offer the questions in the language currently in use, much as language processing actually uses, between session/user preference/forum default/English fallback)
Title: Re: Q&A enhancement: multiple answers and multiple languages
Post by: live627 on May 31st, 2012, 10:37 PM
Neat :) (By the way, that French doesn't look right, but hey, put "le" before some words and some people'll be fooled!)
Title: Re: Q&A enhancement: multiple answers and multiple languages
Post by: Arantor on May 31st, 2012, 10:43 PM
Of course it doesn't look right, but that's sort of the point, it's not supposed to. It's supposed to be different enough that I can tell at a glance which pool it's drawing from and so that I can ensure it adequately handles randomisation where it's supposed to show one question from two (when using English)

Honestly, this is the fun bit I'm up to now, rewriting the logic of the create-validation routine, one of the areas I know least from SMF, even though I successfully added hooks and an internalised validation method... *facepalm*
Title: Re: Q&A enhancement: multiple answers and multiple languages
Post by: Nao on May 31st, 2012, 10:50 PM
I think it meant it should be "la" question ;)
Title: Re: Q&A enhancement: multiple answers and multiple languages
Post by: Arantor on May 31st, 2012, 10:57 PM
Heh, yes, it should, but for the purpose for which I needed it, 'le' was fine :P When I commit this and you update, you can do it properly here ;)
Title: Re: Q&A enhancement: multiple answers and multiple languages
Post by: Nao on June 1st, 2012, 12:04 AM
I have no idea how you guys can put up with learning tens of thousands of foreign words, and in the case of French, learn their *gender* as well... (Just like having to learn hanzi/kanji in addition to vocabulary in Chinese, Japanese etc...)
Do you know of Jane Birkin? She speaks a perfect fluent French, but is well known for always choosing the wrong gender much of the time :lol:
Title: Re: Q&A enhancement: multiple answers and multiple languages
Post by: Dragooon on June 1st, 2012, 12:07 AM
Quote from Nao on June 1st, 2012, 12:04 AM
I have no idea how you guys can put up with learning tens of thousands of foreign words, and in the case of French, learn their *gender* as well...
I got no idea as well, that's why I barely passed in my 5 years of French.
Title: Re: Q&A enhancement: multiple answers and multiple languages
Post by: Nao on June 1st, 2012, 12:09 AM
At least, you can say Le Big Mac! And "Royal Cheese"[1] stands for quarter-pounder with cheese! French isn't that hard :P
 1. And not "Royale with Cheese", unlike what Tarantino wants you to believe!
Title: Re: Q&A enhancement: multiple answers and multiple languages
Post by: Arantor on June 1st, 2012, 12:18 AM
It was certainly the hardest part for me to make the mental leap from English to French when I studied it to cope with the fact that the majority of terms suddenly had gender to them; in English, the only items that have a gender are done so anthropomorphically - ships, for example where they are referred to as female, correlated to 'You treat her like a lady. And she'll always bring you home.'[1]

Then after a year of studying French, Spanish was also thrust upon me. Fortunately there's a lot of similarity in the languages - including the genders - so I didn't totally fail both, but I dropped Spanish as soon as I had the opportunity and concentrated on the you-will-study-one-foreign-language choice I was actually going to study. The sad part is that although I passed French GCSE in 2000, I haven't been back to France since then :/
 1. Now, anyone that can name where I got that quote without Google or IMDb wins a free internet.
Title: Re: Q&A enhancement: multiple answers and multiple languages
Post by: Nao on June 1st, 2012, 12:22 AM
I also dropped Spanish as soon as I could to focus on English ;)

Do you think you've lost your French due to not visiting France? Just watch French movies and be done with it :P
There's this craze about The Intouchables these days... Not a bad movie (has some of my favorite actors), but definitely not the best of its kind.

Anyway.... Gotta go to sleep.
Title: Re: Q&A enhancement: multiple answers and multiple languages
Post by: Nao on June 1st, 2012, 12:24 AM
Quote from Arantor on June 1st, 2012, 12:18 AM
Now, anyone that can name where I got that quote without Google or IMDb wins a free internet.
Titanic?
The Poseidon Adventure?
Or maybe The Crying Game?
:lol:
Title: Re: Q&A enhancement: multiple answers and multiple languages
Post by: Arantor on June 1st, 2012, 12:25 AM
Sleep well ;)

It's not just a case of going to France, as such, though. It's that I've had almost no reason in the last 12 years to use French and I've probably forgotten most of it. If I really had to dig, I could probably hash something together but I'd not be able to keep up with people speaking in fluent French.

@films, wrong on all counts.
Title: Re: Q&A enhancement: multiple answers and multiple languages
Post by: Nao on June 4th, 2012, 10:47 AM
Star Trek (and to a lesser extent Firefly), apparently... Not as much fun as my answers. :P

About Q&A, my main issue with the redesign is that it isn't responsive. Try shrinking the window and behold... a scrollbar!
Title: Re: Q&A enhancement: multiple answers and multiple languages
Post by: Dr. Deejay on June 4th, 2012, 11:13 AM
I think it looks really nice :)
Title: Re: Q&A enhancement: multiple answers and multiple languages
Post by: Arantor on June 4th, 2012, 03:41 PM
Thanks, Dr. Deejay :)

@Nao, the quote about treating her like a lady is in the first episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation, when Dr McCoy from the original series is on board talking to Lt Cmdr Data, about the ship having the right name, Enterprise, and that if you treat her right...
Title: Re: Q&A enhancement: multiple answers and multiple languages
Post by: nend on June 5th, 2012, 11:23 PM
Will there be BBC support in the verification questions?

Sometimes it is nice to add a picture in there and ask a question about it.
Title: Re: Q&A enhancement: multiple answers and multiple languages
Post by: Arantor on June 5th, 2012, 11:38 PM
SMF's already does, though I managed to miss that out when reimplementing this, but fortunately that's an easy change to make.

Also note the screenshot in the first post ;)
Title: Re: Q&A enhancement: multiple answers and multiple languages
Post by: nend on June 6th, 2012, 12:54 AM
I haven't used it in a long time, if I recall I don't think it was supported in earlier versions. Maybe wrong but I am pretty sure it wasn't. O'well it is already in there. :eheh:

*edit

I think multiple question support wasn't, maybe that is what I edited in the sources a long time ago. I just did it comma delimited with a explode for multiple answers.
Title: Re: Q&A enhancement: multiple answers and multiple languages
Post by: Arantor on June 6th, 2012, 01:25 AM
SMF supported multiple questions but one answer per question, and it supported bbc parsing on questions. Nice to see that it's not just me that thought it needed improvement, heh.
Title: Re: Q&A enhancement: multiple answers and multiple languages
Post by: Nao on June 6th, 2012, 11:30 AM
Added English and French questions to registration here.
Logged out.
Switched to French.
Clicked Register (well, in French.)
Confirmed agreement...

Question shows up in English at the end of the page, even though the rest is in French.

I'd flag this as a bug ;)
Title: Re: Q&A enhancement: multiple answers and multiple languages
Post by: Arantor on June 6th, 2012, 04:43 PM
Well, crap. Though it worked for me >_>
Title: Re: Q&A enhancement: multiple answers and multiple languages
Post by: Nao on June 6th, 2012, 04:44 PM
Just try it here and look at the admin page...
Title: Re: Q&A enhancement: multiple answers and multiple languages
Post by: Arantor on June 7th, 2012, 01:59 AM
OK so I tried it here. First visit to the site, in English. First thing I did, I go to the French icon and switch to French. Site is now in French, as expected. Go to registration, boom, I get a French question, as expected.

Here's where it gets tricky, I then proceed to switch back to English, go back through registration, and now I'm still asked the question in French because it's stored in session. This is not unexpected, whether it's desirable is another matter.

How exactly did you try it out?

/mesuspects what needs to be done is to have it detect whether or not it is the same language as currently in use and if not, refresh and fetch new question informatin.
Title: Re: Q&A enhancement: multiple answers and multiple languages
Post by: Nao on June 7th, 2012, 02:30 PM
Yea. I did it that way. Wanted to see both. Got caught by the session... ;)
Title: Re: Q&A enhancement: multiple answers and multiple languages
Post by: Arantor on June 7th, 2012, 03:02 PM
So it should check the language and regenerate questions if the language is different?
Title: Re: Q&A enhancement: multiple answers and multiple languages
Post by: Nao on June 16th, 2012, 07:58 PM
As I said, I don't think it's a big deal in the end... Most users are going to see the question in the language they chose. I suppose. The only case I could see where it fails, is this: user visits website in language 1, understands basic language so it's okay, registers, sees question in language 2, doesn't understand it (let's say it's using a particularly complex grammar peculiarity), would love to answer if the question was in their language 2, and they notice the flag, so they switch to language 2, but question still is in language 1...
Title: Re: Q&A enhancement: multiple answers and multiple languages
Post by: Arantor on June 16th, 2012, 08:05 PM
Yeah, that is indeed a problem. I'm not entirely sure how best to approach that yet, but we'll leave it as is for now and see how it works in a 'real' environment.