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Public area => The Pub => Features => Topic started by: Arantor on July 6th, 2012, 04:58 PM

Title: Github & stuff
Post by: Arantor on July 6th, 2012, 04:58 PM
I honestly don't know what to suggest for how you want to use Github. I haven't published anything on there, except for some patches to SimpleDesk and comments on a couple of things.

Re PM popup, what I planned to do was open a popup with a special template of your messages, but I guess if we use the notification system it could be better served by that?
Title: Re : Github & stuff
Post by: Nao on July 6th, 2012, 07:43 PM
Quote from Arantor on July 6th, 2012, 04:58 PM
I honestly don't know what to suggest for how you want to use Github.
Well, first of all an organization is a given. It ensures that we don't have ego issues (even if unlikely in the first place) regarding whose account is hosting Wedge. It smells of seriousness, too. And we can both be 'admins' for the organization, of course. We can both leave and give away the organization to someone else, etc, etc. It's not linked to us.
As for minor components, this is where I'm unsure where to go: either an organization repo, or my own repo. I guess I'll make a decision when time comes...

I'm not even excited about github. But I'm considering that since most people who do open source dev are on github, it's more likely we'll draw attention from external devs if we're on it rather than bitbucket (mercurial...) or others.
I simply just feel silly with all the options git has. I'm concerned that I might actually work much slower than usual from the moment I switch to git, because it'll be annoying for me to commit anything...
If I could only find a good reason not to use github...
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I haven't published anything on there, except for some patches to SimpleDesk and comments on a couple of things.
It's probably more than me ;)
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Re PM popup, what I planned to do was open a popup with a special template of your messages, but I guess if we use the notification system it could be better served by that?
Yup... It'd be less intrusive. That's the point.
Actually, I didn't even remember there was a popup system for that. I always disable it...

Oh, speaking of popups, please have a look at the current version. I added a background dimming for popups. This is usually something I detest (it was a feature in Highslide, and I never even gave the option to enable it...), but somehow it grew on me when I tried to implement it in reqWin 'just for fun'. It's currently enabled with an asModal boolean, so it's disabled by default, but I enabled it by default on wedge.org so that you can have a look and tell me what you think.
The original idea was that we could turn some (if not all) alert calls into modal popups and the background dimming would be a visual clue that it requires an action and clicking elsewhere won't just close the popup.
What do you think...?
Plus, the 'Close the window' link is the perfect place to show buttons ;)
Posted: July 6th, 2012, 07:32 PM

Oh, and the background dimming also gives a hint that your click 'did' something when we're loading the contents through Ajax... On my dev platform it's immediate, but here it can take a couple of seconds, so it's nice to have some feedback.
Title: Re : Github & stuff
Post by: Arantor on July 6th, 2012, 09:51 PM
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Oh, and the background dimming also gives a hint that your click 'did' something when we're loading the contents through Ajax... On my dev platform it's immediate, but here it can take a couple of seconds, so it's nice to have some feedback.
It looks really nice :)
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Actually, I didn't even remember there was a popup system for that. I always disable it...
The PM notification is one of the more sucky things in SMF, it's just a bare JS alert().
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If I could only find a good reason not to use github...
It uses silly[1] non-linear non-numbered revisions. That enough for you? :niark:
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I'm not even excited about github. But I'm considering that since most people who do open source dev are on github, it's more likely we'll draw attention from external devs if we're on it rather than bitbucket (mercurial...) or others.
That's generally true but honestly I'm not bothered myself about whether it's on Github or not. I find it tends to get in my way when trying to do anything.
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As for minor components, this is where I'm unsure where to go: either an organization repo, or my own repo. I guess I'll make a decision when time comes...
For minor components you probably would be better served with your own repo, e.g. the selectbox.
 1. I still find it silly even though I can make several good arguments that it isn't silly.
Title: Re : Github & stuff
Post by: Nao on July 6th, 2012, 10:41 PM
Quote from Arantor on July 6th, 2012, 09:51 PM
It looks really nice :)
Yep! Thus, I'm unsure whether to keep it to the future modal mode or just use it always...
In the case of a help popup, it's probably best to have the best possible visibility for anything underneath it. OTOH I made the dimming relatively subtle (20% IIRC), so it's not that big a deal.
I played a lot with css3 transitions to make it work, and then gave up and did it in jQuery with a simple fadeIn(), ah ah... Silly me. It's similar in performance, maybe a tad jerkier in Safari. Who cares.
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The PM notification is one of the more sucky things in SMF, it's just a bare JS alert().
Ah, that was it...
And because alerts came up every time my tabs reloaded, if I left my browser and relaunched it later, it would have plenty of tabs that needed a button to be clicked to get control back... Meh!
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It uses silly[1] non-linear non-numbered revisions. That enough for you? :niark:
 1. I still find it silly even though I can make several good arguments that it isn't silly.
Yeah, it's enough, as it was my #1 argument against it, but then I registered over there to get the hang of it, and now I have even more to say about it and what I don't like... For instance, if they're so keen to make it into a social network, why the hell don't they allow PMs and/or e-mailing users through some form...? Why do they, on the contrary, show signed-off-by e-mails in plain view? (They even link them!)
Why is the interface so incredibly hard to decipher? It has too much information, and too simple a color scheme to spot the right bits -- it's basically gray on grey... Or gray on grey, depends on your taste.
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That's generally true but honestly I'm not bothered myself about whether it's on Github or not. I find it tends to get in my way when trying to do anything.
Your repo supports Mercurial, and custom domains... So it's not like we couldn't use Mercurial and host it publicly on dev.wedge.org or something.
Or just use SVN... :P But I'm sure that at the very least, hg would be more realistic to entice users into participating. I don't know.
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For minor components you probably would be better served with your own repo, e.g. the selectbox.
Alrighty.
Title: Re : Github & stuff
Post by: Arantor on July 6th, 2012, 10:43 PM
I can run private Git repos on RepositoryHosting too so that's not a big deal, just that Github is the go-to place. Except that the UI is entirely confusing and the whole thing makes me not want to use it.
Title: Re : Github & stuff
Post by: Nao on July 6th, 2012, 11:13 PM
So we agree on everything here.

Maybe some of our consultants will help. Heck John I noticed you were very active this week on SMF 2.1. Considering you have the Wedge source I'd love to know how you manage to come back to a codebase that is, with all due respect, neatly behind in many ways... :^^;:
Title: Re : Github & stuff
Post by: Nao on July 7th, 2012, 10:21 AM
Quote from Arantor on July 6th, 2012, 10:43 PM
I can run private Git repos on RepositoryHosting too so that's not a big deal, just that Github is the go-to place. Except that the UI is entirely confusing and the whole thing makes me not want to use it.
Even better... Went to my page, and noticed I'd forked blueprint-css. WTF?! I did visit that page yesterday because that's a repo forked by 'Nao' (another user who never did anything and whom I tried to contact to ask for an account transfer.. But fucking github doesn't want me to contact anyone...), but that's all I did. Didn't press any 'Fork' buttons.

Nawe forked joshuaclayton/blueprint-css 15 hours ago
 Forked repository is at Nawe/blueprint-css

So... I just went in, deleted the repo.
Now the glorious notification message is STILL on my page. There is no way to cancel it.
Thank you github for making me look like a git...... -_-
Title: Re : Github & stuff
Post by: Arantor on July 7th, 2012, 03:45 PM
Did you need another reason not to use Github?
Title: Re : Github & stuff
Post by: Nao on July 7th, 2012, 04:14 PM
I just want to ensure a successful future to Wedge. That really is the only reason to consider github...
Title: Re : Github & stuff
Post by: Norodo on July 7th, 2012, 04:28 PM
My personal preference is actually Google Code, after having tried both solutions. It's very easy to understand for newbies, has SVN access and is fairly fully featured for more savvy devs.
Title: Re : Github & stuff
Post by: Nao on July 7th, 2012, 06:39 PM
But GC doesn't have the one thing I like in git: committing to your own repo (either local or remote) and then automatically submitting a patch for maintainers to review.
Basically -- if SVN had that capability, I'd stay with it for a wide-scale development. I don't know if hg has it though... I suppose it does?
Title: Re : Github & stuff
Post by: Arantor on July 7th, 2012, 06:44 PM
I believe hg might have that, I'm not so sure about exactly what it can or can't do.
Title: Re : Github & stuff
Post by: Dragooon on July 8th, 2012, 03:27 AM
Not trying to be biased but Hg has nothing over Git, AFAIK it can do pull requests like the way git does but it is not better and most likely worse. Plus in all honesty github is perhaps the best repository hosting option out there ATM. Google code hardly has anything like fork support or pull request (Google itself doesn't use it for Android), source forge is old news, bit bucket/repository hosting have much less features than github (AFAIK) plus a much smaller user base.
Title: Re : Github & stuff
Post by: Nao on July 8th, 2012, 09:53 AM
Quote from Dragooon on July 8th, 2012, 03:27 AM
Not trying to be biased but Hg has nothing over Git,
Except ease of use maybe..? Why would people still use hg over git then..? (Except for the silly name being a turnoff?)
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AFAIK it can do pull requests like the way git does but it is not better and most likely worse.
That it is 'worse' is not a problem to me.
I would even prefer git+bitbucket (or git+gc) at this point. I just don't like github as a website... What do you know, I'm a design and UX lover. I just don't think github is very 'practical' when it comes to being a collaboration tool AND a social network.
Do you know how to remove a notification from my own timeline? (you know, the one that says Nawe has forked blueprint-css, when I never did in the first place, and removed said fork anyway...)
If you can't, then it's not a social network, it's just a fucked up mess of bugs.
bitbucket has a more readable UI, has private repos (so it doesn't smell like "we'll shove openness down your throat, whether you like it or not!!!!!!!!!1"), and generally I tend to say "fuck" to things that people tell me to join ONLY because they're popular. Hey, I've got news for you: SMF doesn't get contributions from anyone else than the usual suspects. I'm sure that if SMF were to be hosted on GC or BB, it'd get the same usual suspects to register over there, and contribute just the same.
Now, GC and BB both support git so it's not even an issue with what you chose to go with...

There are so many reasons (both good and bad, both rooted or unrealistic) for which I don't like github, it'd just feel like a disaster to go with it in the end. Give me a new readable design for it, give me sequential commit numbers (we're talking about something that's doable(http://blogs.codewise.org/wrf/article/sequential_revision_numbers_in_git)), give me tools to contact people (PM or email or whatever), give me tools to control my own page (like deleting entries or whatever), give me a good tutorial to make the transition from svn less painful, *AND* then I'll consider github.
Because, REALLY, "3 million repos" is the fucking worst reason to join it. Just like "It has plenty of members" was the worst possible reason to join Facebook. How many active repos/members in both of these, eh? Certainly a lot, but I'll take Google+ and Google Code anytime as better replacements, because they know something about UX design. And I don't even LIKE Google!
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Plus in all honesty github is perhaps the best repository hosting option out there ATM. Google code hardly has anything like fork support or pull request
It supports forking, and pull requests can be done by opening an issue... Granted, it's not terribly functional, but to me it's more functional than the messed up fuck that is github's designer team.
Are they self-taught or what? Well, maybe someone should give them a course or something... They've improved a bit since last year, but they still suck hard. For instance, when will they stop using stupid animations for transitions between pages? It's certainly a lot of fun to them, but as a professional user I don't want animations, I want functionality. And these animations get in the way.
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(Google itself doesn't use it for Android),
I don't think it'd be suitable for very large projects, either. But even with BB at least the UI makes sense to me, and doesn't try to catch me into some social crap... I haven't tested it yet (much), but from what I see, it's not as annoying.
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source forge is old news,
I always hated sourceforge, the UI is better than github but it's always been so incredibly slow... Performance is the #1 factor in choosing a website.
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bit bucket/repository hosting have much less features than github (AFAIK) plus a much smaller user base.
Which really, really isn't a problem with me...
I don't know why github is popular. Maybe it's the animations that won most of the userbase. Maybe they spent a lot of money trying to get everyone in the bay area to use it or something, and then it naturally spread from there. Maybe the guys who run it are absolutely charming. Or maybe it's just the better tool and I'm too old for this shit. I don't know.

What I do know, though, is that I need some pretty good reason to use github, after all the mess I've been witnessing, and "it's popular" is SO NOT a good reason for me to do that... Because popularity is the first thing you lose when you start making mistakes, and github might very well end up being replaced with a superior system. One day. And then everyone will laugh at github users for still being on that piece of crap etc etc...
Been there done that ;)
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Norodo on July 8th, 2012, 04:48 PM
I don't like git. I just can't wrap my head around it.
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: live627 on July 8th, 2012, 07:16 PM
Hey, look at Wordpress. They seem to get by with SVN. Neither do they use SF or GC or whatever. Perhaps, staying with how you roll right now isn't such a bad idea after all.
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Norodo on July 8th, 2012, 07:55 PM
GC is basically SVN with a few nice additions though.
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: live627 on July 8th, 2012, 11:22 PM
Yep I know
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Arantor on July 11th, 2012, 06:15 AM
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/07/10/github_100m_investment/
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Nao on July 11th, 2012, 02:10 PM
Quote from live627 on July 8th, 2012, 07:16 PM
Hey, look at Wordpress. They seem to get by with SVN. Neither do they use SF or GC or whatever. Perhaps, staying with how you roll right now isn't such a bad idea after all.
WordPress is in its own league. Because it's been around since the days when SVN was the 'cool' thing to use (as opposed to CVS), and it's been very successful ever since, they don't really need to change their work methodology. They have enough devs already to work on SVN merging issues etc.
I'm sure one can quote dozens of major projects that are still using SVN (Wedge being among them!), but more than SVN vs Git, it's more of a question about methodology really. Do we want other developers to join in and share their code? Yes we do. Do we want to keep the whole thing secure and not give everyone commit access? Yes. Because of this, it's more realistic to rely on Git (or Mercurial) than SVN. Thus, I'm spending a lot of time trying to get used to the idea that I'll have to use that annoying pseudo-social network...

Heck, if the Netscape guy gave them $100M, I'm sure they can finally get to work on *actually* integrating ways to communicate with each other and modify own's homepage..?!
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Arantor on July 11th, 2012, 04:12 PM
Here's the thing, though: WP doesn't just make use of SVN in its own repo, it deploys an SVN repo for each plugin author, and pushing versions of plugins also works from that repo (it's the only way to publish plugins on the master site)

I don't recall them being too hot about accepting patches from outside, however their bug tracker does regularly have patches posted, and as such everything is more integrated.
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Do we want other developers to join in and share their code? Yes we do.
Here's the thing: when the time comes how likely are we going to be to accept their code as-is for inclusion?
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Thus, I'm spending a lot of time trying to get used to the idea that I'll have to use that annoying pseudo-social network...
Git != Github. We can happily run our own private Git server if we want to do that, which uses all the same tools as Github does, except without the insane fake-social aspect.
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Nao on July 12th, 2012, 06:42 PM
I'm going to check all code as I do these days. i.e. carefully but not being too anal about it.

What would you prefer to do yourself, Pete, regarding:
- When to change our system (if ever)?
- What system to use? (SVN, Git, Mercurial, Bazaar...?)
- Where to host it? (Repohosting, Bitbucket, Google Code, Github...)

Right now I'd say Bitbucket + private Mercurial (and public later), but I have a feeling that we're going to end up going to Github, like most people... (It's nearly funny, watching all of the other sites pointing people to their most active repos, and when you click a repo whose name you've heard of, you end up with this final commit message: "Moved project to github"... Lol. It happened several times. Last one I remember is XBMC.)
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Arantor on July 12th, 2012, 09:08 PM
Me, I prefer to go with what works.

I'm comfortable with SVN, both Git and Hg are new to me. I don't like Bazaar.

I'm not too fussy about hosting provided that there's no chance of being held hostage - I trust free repo hosting as much as I trust free web hosting, which is very little. I pay a reasonable sum to RH per month for what I get, but I could just as easily set up my own repo (done that in the past) and I'm comfortable with the options provided by RH, I wouldn't want to give any of the flexibility up that I currently have with RH.
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Nao on July 13th, 2012, 07:57 AM
What does RH offer that others don't...?

So, going with what works = SVN + RH, private right now, public repo later?

Meh. I don't know. I'd rather use RH to try for a dual SVN/Git repo where we do some Git testing or something.
Or perhaps we could use Github with a SVN client... (It sounds silly but they do support that.. https://github.com/blog/966-improved-subversion-client-support and https://github.com/blog/1178-collaborating-on-github-with-subversion)
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: CJ Jackson on July 13th, 2012, 08:57 AM
Bazaar is probably the worst distributed visioning system, it's has the worst performance,  I would say Git mainly because it's feature rich (file staging is a big plus for me, easily allows me to keep one commit per chance) and is very efficient in most case when compared to SVN.

I use git-cola interface, very easy to work with and is cross platform.
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Arantor on July 13th, 2012, 04:31 PM
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What does RH offer that others don't...?
Mostly it's about permissions. I can control who can write to a project, and anyone that can't, they just can't. Unlike Github where everyone can push things to a project and that puts an onus on the project leaders to review and accept patches.

There is also a vast array of facilities we actually don't use at RH but that we could should we decide we want to - we get a free wiki, free bug tracking etc.

I can certainly set up a Git repo in there.
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: nolsilang on July 13th, 2012, 04:47 PM
It can be open source too
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Host Open Source Projects
Allow the general public to view your repository, add new tickets, or see your wiki. By default all projects are private.
http://repositoryhosting.com/features

So Github is not necessary.
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Dragooon on July 15th, 2012, 06:30 AM
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Unlike Github where everyone can push things to a project and that puts an onus on the project leaders to review and accept patches.
No? Only organization members/collaborators can push to the repo. Plus you do get free wiki and bug tracking with github
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: live627 on July 15th, 2012, 07:59 AM
That seems to have been about pull requests.
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Arantor on July 15th, 2012, 03:19 PM
It is referring to pull requests - from the perspective of contributors, they're pushing to the project and expecting the project to take it onboard.

Nothing says 'get stuffed' than not accepting any inward contributions, but if there's no obvious way to do that, that's actually better than appearing to solicit such things without accepting them.
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Nao on July 15th, 2012, 08:44 PM
Well, why wouldn't we be soliciting their help...?
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Arantor on July 15th, 2012, 08:47 PM
Not quite my point.

If you open the doors and appear to accept patches, there is then a pressure on you to accept everything and anything that comes in. There is not the same pressure when the repository is not open.
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Nao on July 15th, 2012, 11:27 PM
Then SMF 2.1 has an edge over us..?
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Arantor on July 15th, 2012, 11:36 PM
Yes and no. Being open means you open the doors to a potential flood of submissions. You then have the joy of wading through the submissions in the hopes of finding good things. If you get a collection of great coder submissions, great, but the odds are not in favour of that being the case, given what has been approved as mods in the past.

Seriously, being open is not the magical panacea it's supposed to be. Being open means you get more input. It doesn't mean it's any *better* input. If anything I'd almost say that it will eventually dilute things because there will be pressure to accept patches that aren't up to snuff.

Consider the past of SMF. It was hard enough getting to be a beta tester, let alone a dev badge. Consider the people who earned that badge. Consider also the people who've submitted patches in the past to SMF, and how few of those were historically accepted. It's not merely a lack of time that caused all those things to be the case, it was the overall low quality of submissions.

In fact, going back it was pretty much only the people who were team members who ever got patches approved, and even then you're pretty much talking about the Cust. team people who ever got anything into the core who weren't the dev team. I haven't been through 2.1 but I suspect the people whose patches have been approved are the people who didn't make it into the Cust. team primarily out of politics or not wanting to be involved, but the same people nonetheless who would have been eligible anyway.

In short: I don't think it's really as open as might want to be believed[1] and while I want to believe the best, I'm not sure it's the right path for them to take.

To be brutally honest, I want to be wrong about this. But I want to see SMF take their main repo public and see what happens, I see no reason to think our experience will be substantially different. Everything I'm predicting is almost certain to come true sometime after SMF makes the 2.1 repo public, and I do not want us to fall into the same trap.
 1. It's not even under the main public account but away in someone else's repos. Security by obscurity, you might say.
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: CJ Jackson on July 15th, 2012, 11:55 PM
Quote from Arantor on July 15th, 2012, 11:36 PM
Seriously, being open is not the magical panacea it's supposed to be. Being open means you get more input. It doesn't mean it's any *better* input. If anything I'd almost say that it will eventually dilute things because there will be pressure to accept patches that aren't up to snuff.
I agree, the more complex the programming language is, the worse it is, especially with those who are amateurs! C++ is worst off with 82 keywords, while PHP is around 49, C has 32, Golang has 25.
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Nao on July 16th, 2012, 06:21 PM
Quote from Arantor on July 15th, 2012, 11:36 PM
Yes and no. Being open means you open the doors to a potential flood of submissions. You then have the joy of wading through the submissions in the hopes of finding good things. If you get a collection of great coder submissions, great, but the odds are not in favour of that being the case, given what has been approved as mods in the past.
Ah well, you certainly know better than me in that area... Eheh! ;) And I guess you're wary of going back to a similar system...
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Seriously, being open is not the magical panacea it's supposed to be. Being open means you get more input. It doesn't mean it's any *better* input. If anything I'd almost say that it will eventually dilute things because there will be pressure to accept patches that aren't up to snuff.
Oh, no pressure for me, I think...
If it's not up to my standard, I'll just comment on the source code and tell people what's wrong with it. (It's one of the advantages of github -- you can comment on a specific line.)
Then I'll wait for them to adapt their code because later they'll remember to do it without my input.
Well, it's pretty much what John did after I commented his commits to Wedge back in the day ;)
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Consider the past of SMF. It was hard enough getting to be a beta tester, let alone a dev badge.
Yeah...
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Consider the people who earned that badge. Consider also the people who've submitted patches in the past to SMF, and how few of those were historically accepted. It's not merely a lack of time that caused all those things to be the case, it was the overall low quality of submissions.
So, I'm looking at the smCore repo and it hasn't had a commit in 2 months, eh... What's up with Norv? I don't know.
In the SMF 2.1 repo, though, there's quite some activity (on par with Wedge I'd say.)
In the end, though, it's mostly about two developers, emanuele and spuds, doing most of the commits.
https://github.com/SimpleMachines/SMF2.1/graphs/contributors
Aside from them, *only* team members (or ex-members) can be found: norv, Thantos, Nas, John, nend (beta tester IIRC -- I suspect he's sicommnend at github), Trekkie, DrDeejay, IchBin.

So, even though the development process is now public, it's pretty much as if SMF had given commit access to all of their teamies. No need to go public indeed. I guess that going public and hoping for developers is either good for limited projects (which are more likely to receive external improvements, maybe the JS and PHP snippets I wrote could be part of that), or for huge projects that a lot of people are into, such as a programming language or OS or whatever.

I could suggest that we open a private git or mercurial or svn repo somewhere with a bug tracker (with a good one I mean... I don't know if RH's is any good?), and then we give commit access to anyone who requests it (basically people in our Friends and Consultants groups).

I know that a couple of years ago I was more protective of the codebase and will probably keep annoying the hell out of people like I did with John (and I'm still sorry about that), but I think it's better to have as many people as possible on the project, than basically just me these last few months. I'm sure there are areas that others would like to modify.
We could use a DCO like SMF 2.1 currently does, if no one wants to write a contributor agreement. The copyright would still be shared between Pete and I. No secrets about that, obviously.
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In short: I don't think it's really as open as might want to be believed[1]
 1. It's not even under the main public account but away in someone else's repos. Security by obscurity, you might say.
I'm not sure about this anymore..? I remember SMF 2.1 was at one point hidden away at Spuds' repo, but now it's at SimpleMachines..?
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To be brutally honest, I want to be wrong about this. But I want to see SMF take their main repo public and see what happens, I see no reason to think our experience will be substantially different. Everything I'm predicting is almost certain to come true sometime after SMF makes the 2.1 repo public, and I do not want us to fall into the same trap.
https://github.com/SimpleMachines/SMF2.1

Don't see why it would be an active repo if it's not the official one..?
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Arantor on July 16th, 2012, 06:42 PM
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And I guess you're wary of going back to a similar system...
I'm wary of dragging us into that particular quagmire. I'm hoping that there will be a higher quality of submission of plugins.
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So, even though the development process is now public, it's pretty much as if SMF had given commit access to all of their teamies. No need to go public indeed.
Wow, they actually made the repo public, as opposed to the playpen repo. But yes, it is as I suspected.
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I could suggest that we open a private git or mercurial or svn repo somewhere with a bug tracker (with a good one I mean... I don't know if RH's is any good?), and then we give commit access to anyone who requests it (basically people in our Friends and Consultants groups).
RH's bug tracker is pretty good, IMO, you should be able to try it out?
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I'm not sure about this anymore..? I remember SMF 2.1 was at one point hidden away at Spuds' repo, but now it's at SimpleMachines..?
Yup it's now the main public repo, didn't realise it had actually been moved (see, I told you I don't check their repo!)
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Dragooon on July 16th, 2012, 09:10 PM
The problem with giving direct access to commit is that you cannot review their work before including, it, in some ways, can be worse than a pull request. I know declining a pull request can be a slap in the face, but a lot of projects have pulled it off fairly fine. There really are not many good ways of rejecting a fully coded submission. Or we can go even more heavy duty by using something like gerrit.
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Nao on July 17th, 2012, 06:11 PM
Quote from CJ Jackson on July 13th, 2012, 08:57 AM
I use git-cola interface, very easy to work with and is cross platform.
Has git-cola got any advantage over the competition...?
I'm not sure it's that 'easy' to work with if it requires installing msysgit, *then* Python, then PyQt... Meh! :^^;:
Posted: July 17th, 2012, 06:04 PM
Quote from Dragooon on July 16th, 2012, 09:10 PM
The problem with giving direct access to commit is that you cannot review their work before including, it,
Well, it can always go through a revert if the addition isn't satisfying... Which is what I did.
Quote
in some ways, can be worse than a pull request.
That's why I keep being interested in github. (As to why we should use gh over something else, I think at this point the only advantage of gh is the interesting comment/notification system. But if other sites have a similar way to comment on requests... Well...)
Posted: July 17th, 2012, 06:08 PM
Quote from Arantor on July 16th, 2012, 06:42 PM
I'm wary of dragging us into that particular quagmire. I'm hoping that there will be a higher quality of submission of plugins.
Well, I think that by the time Wedge goes 1.0, 90% of all plugins will have been written by you guys, who're already working on them... So quality? It won't be a problem ;)
Quote
Wow, they actually made the repo public, as opposed to the playpen repo. But yes, it is as I suspected.
They moved it to SimpleMachines sometime before they went public about their plans for SMF 2.1, I think. Around April or May.
Quote
RH's bug tracker is pretty good, IMO, you should be able to try it out?
Trac? I couldn't remember my password (known song), so all I know is that I don't see many features in Trac, and when it comes to RH their website is a bit slow compared to gh. Which is a bummer.
Quote
Yup it's now the main public repo, didn't realise it had actually been moved (see, I told you I don't check their repo!)
Well, I don't follow it much as well, but I'm subscribed to their feed :P

Oh, and BTW, I'm now 'officially' post-unbanned from simplemachines.org. It took some time because the person who originally unbanned me didn't remove the custom additional group I was in that prevented me from modifying my profile (ahem) and posting on most boards as well.
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: PantsManUK on July 18th, 2012, 05:13 PM
Git's workflow is quite different to that of SVN, but Git and Hg have very similar workflows (as someone that uses/has used all three). TBH, once you get your head into the two-step commit/pull way of working, it's not a hassle. Personally, I much prefer Git, but that's cause I've mostly migrated all my development work over to my Mac and that has Tower - The most powerful Git client for Mac(http://www.git-tower.com) (best damn Git client it's been my pleasure to use; I just wish someone would do something this good for PC).

Between GH and BB, I prefer the BB website, but I'm not using the wiki or ticketing systems on either of those two sites. Tower has inbuilt GH integration (you can create a GH repo from within Tower, and some other stuff too, but as I say, I don't really use it so the integration is overkill for me and my workflows)
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: CJ Jackson on July 18th, 2012, 10:32 PM
Quote from Nao on July 17th, 2012, 06:11 PM
Has git-cola got any advantage over the competition...?
I'm not sure it's that 'easy' to work with if it requires installing msysgit, *then* Python, then PyQt... Meh! :^^;:
Paying too much attention to the Windows installation process, those won't apply when upgrading Git-Cola as msysgit, Python and PyQt has already been installed!  When did the installation become more important than the interface? The command line interface is more tricky, trust me!  You got file staging to deal with! ;)
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Nao on July 19th, 2012, 01:17 AM
@CJ> You're saying it's easier to use. I'm saying it's harder to install. I'm just asking, what tells me it's going to be 'easy' to use once I install it? SmartGit isn't that hard to use, heck even TortoiseGit is okay after the initial learning curve...
Quote from PantsManUK on July 18th, 2012, 05:13 PM
Git's workflow is quite different to that of SVN, but Git and Hg have very similar workflows (as someone that uses/has used all three). TBH, once you get your head into the two-step commit/pull way of working, it's not a hassle. Personally, I much prefer Git, but that's cause I've mostly migrated all my development work over to my Mac and that has Tower - The most powerful Git client for Mac(http://www.git-tower.com) (best damn Git client it's been my pleasure to use; I just wish someone would do something this good for PC).
Apparently, the command-line is the best possible git tool ahah... Says Linus himself. Of course.
Hey I laughed at this quote of his:

"Btw, (...), you're a quality example of why I detest the github
interface. For some reason, github has attracted people who have zero
taste, don't care about commit logs, and can't be bothered."

Source:
https://github.com/torvalds/linux/pull/17#issuecomment-5659970

The thread is a funny read... Although I stopped early on.
Quote from PantsManUK on July 18th, 2012, 05:13 PM
Between GH and BB, I prefer the BB website, but I'm not using the wiki or ticketing systems on either of those two sites. Tower has inbuilt GH integration (you can create a GH repo from within Tower, and some other stuff too, but as I say, I don't really use it so the integration is overkill for me and my workflows)
I cloned a GH repo earlier today (ah, the SHA-1 really doesn't help to keep track...), directly from github with the command line. It was alright. And I don't have to go through this annoying process of forking in my account, and thus encouraging people to look at my awful code... :P
Anyway, I'm still not entirely convinced. I think that for now, repohosting or bitbucket will be fine...
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: CJ Jackson on July 19th, 2012, 02:04 AM
Quote from Nao on July 19th, 2012, 01:17 AM
@CJ> You're saying it's easier to use. I'm saying it's harder to install. I'm just asking, what tells me it's going to be 'easy' to use once I install it? SmartGit isn't that hard to use, heck even TortoiseGit is okay after the initial learning curve...
SmartGit is written in Java, as long as you not using a mixed OS environment (Virtual Machine) as I am, you should be fine, power to you, for me Java just screws round with clipboard synchronisation that Virtual Machine uses, TortoiseGit is pretty much Windows only, I choose to use something cross platform and not written in Java.  Use whatever you're comfortable with. ;)
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Norodo on July 19th, 2012, 12:27 PM
Holy shit Linus is badass.

I like him more and more.
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: PantsManUK on July 19th, 2012, 03:25 PM
Quote from Nao on July 19th, 2012, 01:17 AM
Anyway, I'm still not entirely convinced. I think that for now, repohosting or bitbucket will be fine...
You can always use BB for a Git repo ;)

Getting a client you like will always be the hardest thing (Tortoise* if you're Windows only is probably the best of them. It's lacking some features in it's UI, but you've always got the command line tool to fall back to), as a repo host is a repo host for the most part, especially if you're not using them for all their webness bells and whistles (like Linus does with GH).
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Arantor on July 19th, 2012, 05:28 PM
@Norodo: That's the level of bad-ass I seek to attain, I'm still learning.
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: PantsManUK on July 20th, 2012, 03:07 PM
Quote from Arantor on July 19th, 2012, 05:28 PM
@Norodo: That's the level of bad-ass I seek to attain, I'm still learning.
I think all of us that are in IT aspire to that level of bad-assery ;)
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Nao on July 23rd, 2012, 03:33 PM
Quote from CJ Jackson on July 19th, 2012, 02:04 AM
SmartGit is written in Java, as long as you not using a mixed OS environment (Virtual Machine) as I am, you should be fine, power to you, for me Java just screws round with clipboard synchronisation that Virtual Machine uses,
I did take note of your dislike of Java on your CV :P
Quote
TortoiseGit is pretty much Windows only, I choose to use something cross platform and not written in Java.  Use whatever you're comfortable with. ;)
Right now? I'm 100x more comfortable with TortoiseSVN... :^^;:
Posted: July 23rd, 2012, 03:32 PM
Quote from PantsManUK on July 19th, 2012, 03:25 PM
You can always use BB for a Git repo ;)
Yeah, of course, but if I can choose between hg and git, I'll take hg anytime because of the comparatively better user friendliness...
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: PantsManUK on July 23rd, 2012, 04:18 PM
Quote from Nao on July 23rd, 2012, 03:33 PM
Right now? I'm 100x more comfortable with TortoiseSVN... :^^;:
Posted: July 23rd, 2012, 03:32 PM

Yeah, of course, but if I can choose between hg and git, I'll take hg anytime because of the comparatively better user friendliness...
There's not that much difference between Hg and Git if you're using Tortoise* :P

*BUT*

There's not going to be pressure from me to steer you guys one way or the other, I'm comfortable in SVN, Hg and Git (although Git is my favourite of the three now I know how to work with it) :eheh:
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Dragooon on July 23rd, 2012, 04:43 PM
People find Git to be more user friendly than Hg :P, I find them to be same.
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: live627 on July 24th, 2012, 03:09 AM
I just now found out that you can stage a chunk or even a single line of a file  in Git :D That is so awesome!
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Arantor on July 24th, 2012, 03:20 AM
Yes, that's the only feature I'd actually appreciate in Git itself... ;)
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: PantsManUK on July 24th, 2012, 12:32 PM
Quote from Dragooon on July 23rd, 2012, 04:43 PM
People find Git to be more user friendly than Hg :P, I find them to be same.
For most people, they only see their working copy and their client, and for the most folks here, I suspect that'd be graphical (Tortoise*). As far as command-line clients go, I much prefer Hg to Git, but graphical, Git all the way (and then, only because of Tower).
Quote from Arantor on July 24th, 2012, 03:20 AM
Yes, that's the only feature I'd actually appreciate in Git itself... ;)
Staging is *the* stand-out feature of Git in my book. If we're being honest, all the DVCS's are pretty-much the same at the end of the day; it's the few little differences that make all the difference in the world.
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Nao on July 26th, 2012, 04:24 PM
Quote from live627 on July 24th, 2012, 03:09 AM
I just now found out that you can stage a chunk or even a single line of a file  in Git :D That is so awesome!
I've been staging my file for years...
In my diff file -> open file (from the side I want to modify)
Back to the diff file -> on each line I don't want to commit, I just click the corresponding button to revert the line.
Now save.
Back to the opened file - in Notepad2 I get a notice "File modified, do you want to save?". I say no... Then I just press Space then Backspace, to remind me that it's a modified file.

Commit.

Back to opened filed. Save. Done...
Really, it's how I do it. Otherwise, I'd never been committing anything...
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Arantor on July 26th, 2012, 11:38 PM
/mehas never done the staging stuff, if he's not ready to commit it as-is, he'll either revert and just deal with it later or do madness with copying files around.
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Nao on July 29th, 2012, 01:35 PM
Yesterday I took a backup of our svn repo, and converted it to git...
It takes quite a while to do, lol. Thankfully I have a fast machine but it still easily took an hour overall.
so it's "doable", perhaps I'll upload it to bitbucket (as a private repo obviously), to do some further tests.
Posted: July 27th, 2012, 07:09 AM

Well, so I did my tests, internally so far (haven't been using bb for this), and I really have to say... I can't live without rev numbers. That's all I can say for now. Maybe someone can give me therapy or something, but I was doing a blame earlier today, and everything I did based on this, would have been much harder if I hadn't had revision numbers. Revision dates are less 'blatant' to me, I can't sort them quickly in my heard, if I read 'October 2011' it'll take a tenth of a second to determine if it's earlier or later than 'May 2012', while between rev 1212 and rev 1574 it's immediate. Things like that...

I could try and force a 'tag' on each and every commit so far, can probably do a script for that, but I don't know if it's workable...
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Arantor on July 29th, 2012, 02:30 PM
It'd be workable but I suspect not that practical because future commits may or may not end up having that.

Git promotes a style of forking and merging complete features, not gradual iteration.
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Nao on July 30th, 2012, 07:32 PM
Yeah, and as such it promotes strong conflicts... :P

Okay, a question for git specialists...
I tried changing my e-mail address (which is freely viewable because of the git commits, duh!) into nao@wedge (a dummy one), and followed the instructions here using a github-sponsored gist:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/750172/how-do-i-change-the-author-of-a-commit-in-git

As a result, here's the log I have now in my local and remote repos... Great.

Now, how do I:
- Get rid of the extra... what is it, branch? (Which still shows my e-mail address!!)
- Clean this up on my github repo so that it doesn't show these rewrites as new commits...?!

PS: as you can see, I tried adding numeric tags to my commits as an attempt to make it 'look like svn'... :-/
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Nao on August 2nd, 2012, 09:09 AM
Just to make it clear...

Here's my personal decision on our workflow. Pete is free to give his opinion if it's any different of course :) I'm just assuming we're in agreement on this. Also, if anyone finds a good compromise on ease of use that doesn't require SVN... I'm all ears. But in the end I think SmartGit is just annoying and TortoiseGit is confusing the hell out of me, and command-line is... well, I asked for ease of use, not for ways to become a cyb3rzw4rL0rd.

- Present and Near feature: Repositoryhosting + SVN (private)
- Later future: Repositoryhosting or Google Code + SVN (public)
- Ways to allow for external contributions to code: use TortoiseSVN -> Create Patch -> post the .diff/.patch file somewhere. It's not particularly 'harder' than, say, allowing github forking and, instead of doing their own git fetch/merge crap, getting the fork on my hard drive, syncing it and then diffing between repos locally. Plus I can just read the patch file and modify it inline before I do my magic...
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: MultiformeIngegno on April 5th, 2013, 12:57 AM
Yesterday I created an account on GH... I needed to submit a pull request. It's rather expensive though to have a paid account (private repos)!
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: nolsilang on April 5th, 2013, 01:02 AM
Quote from MultiformeIngegno on April 5th, 2013, 12:57 AM
Yesterday I created an account on GH... I needed to submit a pull request. It's rather expensive though to have a paid account (private repos)!
If you have an education/academic email you can apply for education account : https://github.com/edu
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Arantor on April 5th, 2013, 01:02 AM
The question is whether you need private repos or not. If you don't, and most people don't, it's not a problem.

But this is why I use RepositoryHosting ;)
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: MultiformeIngegno on April 5th, 2013, 01:10 AM
I need a private repo because I want to try to have a script on my VPS that automatically pulls updated files from gh for a static website I have.
@0x: thanks!! :) it worked!!
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Arantor on April 5th, 2013, 01:15 AM
Eh, can do that quite happily with RH ;)
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: MultiformeIngegno on April 5th, 2013, 01:17 AM
I'm new to git in general, so for me it's quite the same... Luckily I got the GH edu account so it should be ok. RH seems paid too though.
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Arantor on April 5th, 2013, 01:20 AM
I never said it wasn't paid... but it is cheaper than Github. I have several more than 5 private repos for my $6 a month.
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Dragooon on April 5th, 2013, 06:47 AM
Meh, been paying 12$/mo since forever and love it :P
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: MultiformeIngegno on April 5th, 2013, 02:15 PM
Uhm, this is weird. I can't find a button to revert a commit on GH website. Is only possible via command line?
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Dragooon on April 5th, 2013, 04:09 PM
Quote from MultiformeIngegno on April 5th, 2013, 02:15 PM
Uhm, this is weird. I can't find a button to revert a commit on GH website. Is only possible via command line?
Yeah
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: MultiformeIngegno on April 5th, 2013, 04:27 PM
I'm becoming mad.

I forked a repo. Created a new branch from website (named "anythingslider").
Then:
cd /home/multiformeingegno
git clone git@github.com:multiformeingegno/cdnjs.git
Enter passphrase for key '/root/.ssh/id_rsa': (done)
I do the changes I need to do on /home/multiformeingegno/cdnjs
Then I'd like to push my changes to anythingslider (not to master).
cd /home/multiformeingegno/cdnjs
git add ajax/libs/anythingslider/*
git commit -m "Updated AnythingSlider to reflect original dir structure and added missing default.png"
git push origin anythingslider
Enter passphrase for key '/root/.ssh/id_rsa': (done)

But I get a:
error: src refspec anythingslider does not match any.
error: failed to push some refs to 'git@github.com:multiformeingegno/cdnjs.git'

 <_<
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Nao on April 5th, 2013, 04:30 PM
Welcome to the madness that is called git... :lol:
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Dragooon on April 5th, 2013, 04:51 PM
If you do a git remote show origin, is anythingslider tracked?
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: MultiformeIngegno on April 5th, 2013, 04:55 PM
Here you are @Dragooon

Code: [Select]
* remote origin
  Fetch URL: git@github.com:multiformeingegno/cdnjs.git
  Push  URL: git@github.com:multiformeingegno/cdnjs.git
  HEAD branch (remote HEAD is ambiguous, may be one of the following):
    anythingslider
    master
  Remote branches:
    anythingslider tracked
    master         tracked
  Local branch configured for 'git pull':
    master merges with remote master
  Local ref configured for 'git push':
    master pushes to master (fast-forwardable)
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Dragooon on April 5th, 2013, 05:38 PM
Well I'm not sure, you sure your working branch is anythingslider and not master?
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: MultiformeIngegno on April 5th, 2013, 05:44 PM
Quote from Dragooon on April 5th, 2013, 05:38 PM
Well I'm not sure, you sure your working branch is anythingslider and not master?
Even if my working branch is master I should be able to push changes to another branch...
Title: Re: Github & stuff
Post by: Dragooon on April 5th, 2013, 05:47 PM
Quote from MultiformeIngegno on April 5th, 2013, 05:44 PM
Quote from Dragooon on April 5th, 2013, 05:38 PM
Well I'm not sure, you sure your working branch is anythingslider and not master?
Even if my working branch is master I should be able to push changes to another branch...
Good point, try pushing to all or making a new clone. Something is wrong with how your local git checkout is working.