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Public area => The Pub => Features => Topic started by: Arantor on March 5th, 2012, 02:46 PM

Title: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Arantor on March 5th, 2012, 02:46 PM
For a while we've talked about the illogical nature of the theme settings that are really member preferences and how they are theme specific.[1]

A while ago I brought a new area into the admin panel, called Member Options. It held some of the generic options for members, custom profile fields and signatures, and now I've tried to put the preferences configuration there, in hopefully a less brain-dead fashion.

Except I'm not sure I like the UI very much and I'm not sure how best to fix that.

The 'Change' button is hidden by default, visible when you mouse over the relevant area (like the thoughts button does) and when you select it, it goes from the 'default value: blah' into two dropdowns, one to select what happens with guests/new members, and one for existing members. As you can see this isn't finished yet. (I made one visible to show you what it would look like)

The thing is, while I think it's about the only sane way to complete this UI, I don't like it. It's boring, bland, unimaginative and I just don't like it but I can't figure out how to improve it without making it less usable. (Though I'm debating pulling out the magical hide factor and just having the modify buttons there the whole time, it'll be more obvious what to do then at least)

Thoughts?
 1. Actually, the code does indicate some of them should update only the default theme (i.e. regardless of what theme you're actually configuring) but I'm not entirely sure it works properly. Even if it does, it's highly illogical.
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: spoogs on March 5th, 2012, 03:13 PM
Not sure if the UI grabs me but not sure what to change... I'd be happy with some select-boxes but that may just look cluttery. As long as it works I doubt many will care if it's exciting or not.

Not sure why any of these would need to be theme specific either, I think members would expect it to function the same in all themes, at least I would.
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Arantor on March 5th, 2012, 03:17 PM
Quote
Not sure why any of these would need to be theme specific either, I think members would expect it to function the same in all themes, at least I would.
This is the reason for the change. Theoretically, the code suggests that only two of the options should actually be theme specific but I don't think it's ever worked properly, nor can I be bothered to check.
Quote
I'd be happy with some select-boxes but that may just look cluttery. As long as it works I doubt many will care if it's exciting or not.
Since you really need two selectboxes for each item, it looked very cluttered having them all there up front, which is why it's not like that.
Quote
Not sure if the UI grabs me but not sure what to change...
My sentiments exactly... and I made it >_<
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: spoogs on March 5th, 2012, 03:49 PM
I just finished staring at yours and smf's and still cant come up with anything
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Arantor on March 5th, 2012, 03:51 PM
At least mine's all in one page as opposed to two and a half pages in SMF, and I think I can argue mine's easier to follow than SMF's "change settings for existing members" page... seriously, who thought the whole "Don't change..." / "Change" (and enable this handy textbox) was a *good* idea?
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: spoogs on March 5th, 2012, 04:04 PM
Indeed having it in 1 place makes much more sense, I was just looking too see if anything would hit me about what to do with the UI
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: and on March 5th, 2012, 04:43 PM
never understood why do different setting for visitors and for users?
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Dismal Shadow on March 5th, 2012, 04:57 PM
Quote from spoogs on March 5th, 2012, 03:13 PM
Not sure why any of these would need to be theme specific either, I think members would expect it to function the same in all themes, at least I would.
Well there's a reason for it; mobile themes.
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Arantor on March 5th, 2012, 05:19 PM
Quote from and on March 5th, 2012, 04:43 PM
never understood why do different setting for visitors and for users?
Because members who haven't set their own settings inherit from guests.

Also, consider something like notifications, you might want to turn them on for all new members but not affect anyone who's already changed it. (Or vice versa, turn them off for everyone except people who chose to have them on)
Quote
Well there's a reason for it; mobile themes.
Name me *one* setting on that list that would be worthwhile to have as a mobile-specific one.
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Farjo on March 5th, 2012, 09:29 PM
It's taken me two readings, one at lunchtime and one now, to get a handle on what the screen does. Let me test my understanding...

The screen can do two things. One it can set the defaults for guests and for users that have not set their own preference (so called "New users") for the option concerned. Two it can also overwrite (not override - actually write over) settings that have been chosen by users, again for the option concerned.

Kind of like a noun and a verb, one saves settings and the other sets settings.

Does the screen therefore require two columns (three including the description), the first with default values selected in dropdowns with a Save button at the bottom, and the second with the action dropdowns - all defaulting to "Leave their choice alone" - with a Change button at the bottom?

Phew I'm knackered!
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Arantor on March 5th, 2012, 09:34 PM
That's exactly it. SMF does it by having two screens for the separate items, and neither is what I would call intuitive.

The problem with three columns is simply how much space it takes up, you can't fit it as three columns as it stands, there's just not enough room.

Perhaps I'm doing this one wrong by trying to build it all into one page. (It would certainly explain my apathy towards this UI)
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Dismal Shadow on March 5th, 2012, 09:43 PM
Quote from Arantor on March 5th, 2012, 05:19 PM
Quote
Well there's a reason for it; mobile themes.
Name me *one* setting on that list that would be worthwhile to have as a mobile-specific one.
Dragooon would know. :P
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Farjo on March 5th, 2012, 09:44 PM
"Perhaps I'm doing this one wrong by trying to build it all into one page." No I think it works well as one screen, if it can be done.

How about if the column headers were (column 2:) "Default" and (column 3:) "Overwrite". In column 2 you then just need the width of Yes (No being shorter), and in column 3 the width of the widest of "Set to Yes", "Set to No", "Leave alone" and "Set to default".
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Arantor on March 5th, 2012, 09:48 PM
I would note that a couple of the settings were quietly modified in WAP2 mode, namely the settings for number of posts and topics to display. But that's not strictly theme behaviour as it has to be supported by code outside of the theme.


Re making it into columns, doing that does risk severely cluttering the screen up, especially as more than one item's label wraps as it is.
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Nao on March 5th, 2012, 11:57 PM
Maybe using JS to hide/show columns as needed...? (Some hover animations like in the thought list?)
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Arantor on March 6th, 2012, 12:08 AM
Hmm, I sort of tried that - as it is, the change buttons are hidden until the dd is hovered over, and even *then* it feels a bit cluttered :(
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Nao on March 6th, 2012, 12:18 AM
Using color codes for yes/no, then? (green/red)
Slightly muted colors maybe?

Okay, gotta go this time...
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Arantor on March 6th, 2012, 12:22 AM
It's not even that that's the problem, it's the amount of options, and I don't think forcing it into three columns is quite the answer.

I don't know, need to think about it a bit more, meanwhile tomorrow I'll fix up the saving code - it's not like the UI can't be tweaked later on. It may be that I'm overthinking it right now and that it works fine in practical use.
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Farjo on March 6th, 2012, 07:22 AM
New minimum requirement: the site admin must have a really wide screen :eheh:
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: billy2 on March 6th, 2012, 08:33 AM
Maybe its just me and the way my mind works, but removing the 'DON'T's would make the options quickly understandable, instead of trying to figure out double negatives.
Otherwise I had only one thought (already poo pood) - using radio buttons in columns.
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: live627 on March 6th, 2012, 08:41 AM
Quote from Farjo on March 6th, 2012, 07:22 AM
New minimum requirement: the site admin must have a really wide screen :eheh:
1080p? :D
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Arantor on March 6th, 2012, 02:11 PM
OK, fun fact, I use 1280x1024. I try and shoot for usable if not beautiful on 1024x768.
Quote
Maybe its just me and the way my mind works, but removing the 'DON'T's would make the options quickly understandable, instead of trying to figure out double negatives.
There is no 'don't'.

The first dropdown expands to provide the choices, with indication of current value as well. So for guests/new members on something like 'show board descriptions inside boards', the first dropdown is "yes" / "no (no change)" to indicate that it is that value already. The same principle works with items that are already multiple choice anyway.

The second dropdown has 3 options to the first's 2 options.

For the yes/no type deals, it has 'Leave the members' choice alone' (which is analogue to 'don't change' without using a negative, though I probably should reword it to 'Keep...' rather than 'Leave ... alone') followed by 'Set to yes for everyone' / 'Set to no for everyone'
Quote
Otherwise I had only one thought (already poo pood) - using radio buttons in columns.
I have nothing against columns of radio buttons where it's appropriate, but I'm not convinced it's appropriate - since you'd need 5 radio buttons to cope with the base choices just for a single checkbox, there's a LOT of checkboxes.
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Dismal Shadow on March 6th, 2012, 02:24 PM
Quote from Farjo on March 6th, 2012, 07:22 AM
New minimum requirement: the site admin must have a really wide screen :eheh:
it's sad, really, now with the amount of users going for netbook, ultrabook and tablets these days. Those resolution are small even for developers and admins alike.
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Arantor on March 6th, 2012, 02:27 PM
I don't see it as sad, really, I see it as different devices to suit different users' needs. Though I won't argue that netbook resolutions are ridiculously tiny, ultrabooks tend not to be so tiny (their focus is on performance for size and they tend to come with at least 1024x768), and tablets are increasingly a viable tool.

I can fully see myself sat on the sofa with an iPad, doing admin (wouldn't be the first time) because I can't be arsed to go sit at the computer.
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Dismal Shadow on March 6th, 2012, 02:35 PM
Quote from Arantor on March 6th, 2012, 02:27 PM
I can fully see myself sat on the sofa with an iPad, doing admin (wouldn't be the first time) because I can't be arsed to go sit at the computer.
ohhhh, tell me about it. I have been out most of the time, i would rely on my iPhone for everything but it's limited in some areas. :(
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Arantor on March 6th, 2012, 02:39 PM
This is why I got an iPod, to be able to try using things in that form factor. It's... interesting.
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Farjo on March 6th, 2012, 02:41 PM
"There is no 'don't'."
 - I think he means the don'ts in the labels. So if you have "Don't look on the bright side of life" set to "No" it's a double negative and would be easier to read if it were "Look on the bright side of life" = "Yes".
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Arantor on March 6th, 2012, 02:48 PM
Hence my comment about rewording it from 'Leave the thing alone' to 'Keep it as it is'
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Farjo on March 6th, 2012, 03:18 PM
I didn't explain properly.

The label "Don't show users' signatures" = "No"
could be changed to
"Show users' signatures" = "Yes"

Of course he might not mean that at all :D
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Arantor on March 6th, 2012, 03:32 PM
Ah, I see. There are other considerations at work for doing this, that go far beyond what this page has to say, but it's possible to do, I guess.
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Aaron on March 6th, 2012, 10:49 PM
You could also reword it to "Hide users' signatures" if you don't want to touch existing code much, if course.
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Arantor on March 6th, 2012, 10:54 PM
I was strongly contemplating actually rewording all the relevant options, because I'd rather have a saner UI that's 'correct' and have the code support that, rather than fudge it.

While 'Hide' is better than 'Don't show', it's still a sort of negative action - yes, in that context means to not do something. I'd much rather have 'yes' mean 'do that'.
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Nao on March 6th, 2012, 11:02 PM
No offence but it seems like a lot of talk for just a detail. ;)

We have a word in French for all of this.

Branlette intellectuelle. I'll let you look it up. :P
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Arantor on March 6th, 2012, 11:03 PM
Quote
No offence but it seems like a lot of talk for just a detail.
Ah, but the detail's important. Maybe for an individual menu item it isn't, but for a general sense of style, it becomes more important. How many such UI items are there that don't quite make proper sense because of stuff like that?
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: billy2 on March 7th, 2012, 08:34 AM
Quote from Farjo on March 6th, 2012, 03:18 PM
I didn't explain properly.

The label "Don't show users' signatures" = "No"
could be changed to
"Show users' signatures" = "Yes"

Of course he might not mean that at all :D
Thats exactly what I meant.
as it is now - "Don't show users avatars  - default = no"
could be written as "Show users avatars - default = no "

;)
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Nao on March 7th, 2012, 08:38 AM
Or "hide avatars"?
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: billy2 on March 7th, 2012, 08:42 AM
Quote from Nao on March 7th, 2012, 08:38 AM
Or "hide avatars"?
Anything - just as long as the double negatives are erased   :P
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Arantor on March 7th, 2012, 10:49 AM
If you reword it to 'Hide avatars', it's still a double negative!
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Nao on March 7th, 2012, 11:46 AM
Really?
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Arantor on March 7th, 2012, 11:49 AM
Yup. Don't show = hide, either way, it's getting a 'yes' to mean 'not to do something'. Would be far more logical to have it be 'Show' where yes means to do so.
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: spoogs on March 7th, 2012, 01:08 PM
Adding "?" should fix the problem.

"Hide user avatars?" yes/no
"Display user signatures?" yes/no
etc...
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Arantor on March 7th, 2012, 01:20 PM
Ah, but having the ? doesn't change the fact that the answer to the question is the opposite of what the terms usually mean.

Show = do something = positive assertion
Hide = don't do something = negative assertion

Having a positive assertion be a yes/no makes sense, having a negative assertion be yes/no is far more complicated for us to process.
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Nao on March 7th, 2012, 01:29 PM
When I hide my ass during a gun shoot, it's definitely a positive assertion. :eheh:
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: spoogs on March 7th, 2012, 01:32 PM
But then in the same context show would mean do not hide ( :P I'm just being overly technical)
Posted: March 7th, 2012, 01:31 PM
Quote from Nao on March 7th, 2012, 01:29 PM
When I hide my ass during a gun shoot, it's definitely a positive assertion. :eheh:
True enough  :lol:
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Asgard on March 7th, 2012, 01:36 PM
Agreed on the removing double negatives, UI controls really shouldn't force the person to decipher what they mean prior to using. They should be naturally intuitive and immediately evident.

As a forum Admin who doesn't spend all his time administrating forums smoothing out these sorts of things really will make a big difference in the resulting experience, particularly when compared to SMF.

Now, saying that and then actually going through all of the options to determine where double-negatives exist are two different things (mostly due to the sheer volume of options and screens and what not).
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Arantor on March 7th, 2012, 01:37 PM
Quote
I'm just being overly technical
If you want to get technical, what we're really arguing about is the semantics of show vs don't show vs hide for our context. Hide equates to don't show for the context in question, but it isn't the same thing.

If you're hiding something, you're taking effort to actively conceal it from display. As opposed to don't show which is a passive act; it is not taking the active act of display.

For the vast bulk of those items, the correct semantic meaning isn't to use the word 'hide', because with the exception of ignored users posts, you're simply not doing the work when you're 'not showing' these things, as opposed to working to conceal them.

So getting overly technical, we should definitely reword them to not only be more obvious to the user but also to actually describe the action being taken under the hood, i.e. taking effort to actually show these things.
Quote
Now, saying that and then actually going through all of the options to determine where double-neagtives exist are two different things (mostly due to the sheer volume of options and screens and what not).
That's the beauty of something like this, it doesn't have to be a one-hit process, it can be gradually applied.
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Nao on March 7th, 2012, 01:52 PM
Do you really think admins are going to question the semantics of this? I'm sure they care about it as much as the fact that I'm close to 9k posts and you're still going to beat me to it by tomorrow :P meaning, not much :lol:
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Arantor on March 7th, 2012, 01:57 PM
Quote
Do you really think admins are going to question the semantics of this?
The admins might not, but I do. It's long bothered me that it never felt right, but it wasn't until this conversation I was able to understand *why*.

End of the day, it's something that's been brought to my attention through whatever means and I don't like it!

I've already changed show_no_signatures to show_signatures (yes, everywhere in the code, hell I even made what I think is a half way decent attempt to fix the French translation) (This took about 5 minutes, and had I just been bold enough to do it, I would have done it already and the argument would have been moot anyway :P)
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Asgard on March 7th, 2012, 01:57 PM
Quote from Nao on March 7th, 2012, 01:52 PM
Do you really think admins are going to question the semantics of this?
I know this question is directed at Arantor, but yes! An emphatic yes!

Semantics and grammar matter and correct usage will make things much easier to understand quickly.
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: spoogs on March 7th, 2012, 02:10 PM
Quote
Do you really think admins are going to question the semantics of this?
I wouldn't, if it weren't for Arantor's explanation I would have thought this was more about readability than semantics. I'm fine though as long as the option I choose it what takes place; so if I choose to show avatars and they are shown all is well with me :)
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Arantor on March 7th, 2012, 02:33 PM
The semantics explain why it's easier to read the positive assertions ;)
Posted: March 7th, 2012, 02:15 PM

Anyway, the first two of these are now done, and as we go forward hopefully we can keep things positive ;)
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Farjo on March 7th, 2012, 02:39 PM
Changing the subject - or rather not keeping the subject but I don't want you not to not think I don't think semantics are unimportant because I don't not  :unsure:

Back to your original question of clutter, and just an idea, how about 2 tabs between "Show descriptions inside boards" and "Preferences", but over to the right, above the actual options. One tab could say "Set defaults" and the other "Change users' options" perhaps.

When the first tab is 'active' (right word?) the "For guests / new users" option drop-downs are displayed; when the latter tab is clicked the "For existing members" drop-downs are shown.

This means that it is on one screen, the labels on the left remain the same for both actions (i.e. setting defaults and overwriting users' options), it is perhaps clearer to the average admin and it is shown as two columns.

Sorry I'm not too good at explaining - I could knock up something in Paint if you'd like?
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Arantor on March 7th, 2012, 02:51 PM
Quote
but I don't want you not to not think I don't think semantics are unimportant because I don't not
Semantics aren't really that important in themselves. What's more important is understanding what results. It is one thing to understand that 'show avatars = yes' is easier to understand than either 'don't show avatars = no' or 'hide avatars = no', and another thing to understand why. Semantics gives you the answer as to why, but you don't need to know why in order to make use of it ;)
Quote
how about 2 tabs
I don't like the idea of having tabs. Having more tabs indicates another level of hierarchy, as it is, there's already the tabs of the main menu, the admin menu, and the manage member options menu.

There is also the concept of chained actions, if you think about it. You might want to set the defaults when starting out, but it's also quite likely that later on you're going to want to reset the default and reset everyone to that default when you do change, much as you might do with themes. In that case, having the two together is sensible.
Posted: March 7th, 2012, 02:44 PM

OK, here's an updated screenshot. Even just having the breaks visibly improves things to me.
Posted: March 7th, 2012, 02:47 PM

I do also get the feeling to a point that this is one of the things that looks horrible but isn't so bad once you actually get using it.

Perhaps we should bench this one for now in UI terms (though not the wording changes, haha) and come back to it when Wedge is publicly accessible in some fashion so that you can actually try it out yourself and let me know how it feels to actually use - right now I'm probably the only person that's used this.
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: billy2 on March 7th, 2012, 02:57 PM
 :cool:

Damn, still got a "Dont warn on new replies.....= No "

 :angel:
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Arantor on March 7th, 2012, 03:00 PM
Yeah, yeah, I know :P I didn't want to tackle everything at once :P

I have some ideas on improving the others too, as it happens... for example converting 'show most recent at top', why not 'order of posts' being a select box of 'newest first' / 'oldest first'?
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Farjo on March 7th, 2012, 03:02 PM
"You might want to set the defaults when starting out, but it's also quite likely that later on you're going to want to reset the default and reset everyone to that default when you do change" - fair enough :)

Yes that looks better with the line breaks. "and come back to it when Wedge is publicly accessible" - so when will that be?? :angel: I'M JOKING!!!!!
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Arantor on March 7th, 2012, 03:12 PM
It'll be when it's ready but I'm increasingly getting a nagging feeling that it needs to perhaps be sooner rather than later if only because I'm finding it harder and harder to make more objective choices about things like this.
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: billy2 on March 7th, 2012, 03:14 PM
Quote from Arantor on March 7th, 2012, 03:00 PM
Yeah, yeah, I know :P I didn't want to tackle everything at once :P
Hell, yeah !
Quote from Arantor on March 7th, 2012, 03:00 PM
I have some ideas on improving the others too, as it happens... for example converting 'show most recent at top', why not 'order of posts' being a select box of 'newest first' / 'oldest first'?
Just a question-
Why would anyone want to scroll through old posts to get to the newest?
Is this the blog way?
I know if I had my emails oldest first/newest last I would missforget about a shit load of important stuff

 
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Arantor on March 7th, 2012, 03:17 PM
Quote
Why would anyone want to scroll through old posts to get to the newest?
It doesn't refer to the list of topics, but posts within a topic.

In normal thread view, you get oldest to newest by default... and have done for years in SMF. I find that much easier to follow so that you have the conversation top to bottom in chronological order.
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: billy2 on March 7th, 2012, 03:22 PM
Sorry, I didnt think too much about what you were saying, did I?
Chose the wrong day to quit smoking !

Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Arantor on March 7th, 2012, 03:23 PM
Quote
Sorry, I didnt think too much about what you were saying, did I?
Don't worry about it :) It's actually not very clear what it relates to, is it?
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Farjo on March 7th, 2012, 05:47 PM
Quote from billy2 on March 7th, 2012, 03:22 PM
Chose the wrong day to quit smoking !
Surely you can't be serious?
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Arantor on March 7th, 2012, 05:54 PM
Don't call him Shirley ;)
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Aaron on March 7th, 2012, 06:23 PM
Looking at the screenshot... what about alternating background colours between options? Given the right colours, that might just have the aesthetically pleasing effect you're looking for.
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Nao on March 7th, 2012, 06:32 PM
Quote from Farjo on March 7th, 2012, 02:39 PM
Changing the subject - or rather not keeping the subject but I don't want you not to not think I don't think semantics are unimportant because I don't not  :unsure:
:rotfl:
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: billy2 on March 7th, 2012, 09:12 PM
Quote from Farjo on March 7th, 2012, 05:47 PM
Quote from billy2 on March 7th, 2012, 03:22 PM
Chose the wrong day to quit smoking !
Surely you can't be serious?
'fraid so - there is never a good time
Quote from Arantor on March 7th, 2012, 05:54 PM
Don't call him Shirley ;)
Thats my weekend name ;)
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Arantor on March 10th, 2012, 01:19 PM
Quote
'fraid so - there is never a good time
I'd argue that generally there's no such thing as a good time for anything, just a collection of variably less bad times, but in this case I'll make an exception; there's always a good time to give up smoking, and it's always 'today' because it'll be better for you in the long run.
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: Nao on March 10th, 2012, 08:25 PM
If anything, today would have been a bad day to stop for me...
Title: Re: Unfinished, quite raw, would like some feedback
Post by: billy2 on March 14th, 2012, 02:37 PM
I am on day 6 of my Champix(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champix) course.
Quite painless - up to press.

Go see your doc when you feel like giving up and ask for Champix. A couple of our drivers have given up using this.
Its not a nicotine replacement, it tells your brain you don't need a smoke.
Its the habit I have to address more than any withdrawal.