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What do people think about having a recycle board set by default on new installs?
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Yes please. :)
And maybe throw more recycle boards specify on topics or eh...boards?
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Yes this would be great
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What about on conversions from SMF (+others later)? If there isn't a recycle board, add one?
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What about on conversions from SMF (+others later)? If there isn't a recycle board, add one?
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What about on conversions from SMF (+others later)? If there isn't a recycle board, add one?
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If you come from SMF to Wedge, you may or may not have a recycle board. Should it create one then?
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I think so
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If you come from SMF to Wedge, you may or may not have a recycle board. Should it create one then?
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That's my point: it's not set up in SMF by default though I really think it should be (which is why I'm suggesting it here), but I'm on the fence. If you've come from SMF you may not want/need such, but you also may not know about it.
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Sure why not. :)
If they dont want it enabled they would have disable it in Wedge then.
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That's my point: it's not set up in SMF by default though I really think it should be (which is why I'm suggesting it here), but I'm on the fence. If you've come from SMF you may not want/need such, but you also may not know about it.
My problem is that I really hate how the recycle board is implemented right now.
http://dev.simplemachines.org/mantis/view.php?id=1626
http://dev.simplemachines.org/mantis/view.php?id=2887
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This is what I did in SimpleDesk and in hindsight, I'm not sure it worked so well in practice actually. It was certainly an interesting way of solving the problem (to have the deleted items remain in the ticket in context, but be flagged as deleted) but the UI sucked, not to mention causing other issues with how the recycled messages get accessed.
It's not a *bad* solution but the UI would certainly need a makeover.
As for separating deleting individual posts vs deleting individual topics... again, we actually had that in SimpleDesk and internally it made more of a mess, at least in my head trying to get it working sensibly.
That said, floating topics are the perfect candidate for being deleted; you store the original board somewhere other than the place you normally use to access it, or otherwise set the 'parentage' to deleted in some form.
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IMO any forum owner/admin who works without a safety net (ie Recycle Board) is asking for trouble. Anyone can click Remove by accident.
Yes please, a Recycle Board by default visible only to admin with option to set permissions for moderators to view/have access to it too.
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If it were implemented as it is now, it would just be a regular board with the relevant permissions set. That's a tiny job, in fact :)
But I get the feeling something more complex and powerful is what's needed.
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Hmm. I still have no better ideas on implementing this other than what I originally implemented.
I think I'm going to go ahead and implement as originally mentioned (i.e. a new install creates a recycle board by default), close this topic and then see if inspiration strikes.
I know Nao commented above, but I found it just didn't work in practice :( It just gets too unwieldy to keep managed and is the source of at least two bugs in SD 1.0 that were fixed post release.
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I'll trust your judgment. Just try and fix my bugs in the future ;)
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Heh :P
I'm going on the usability experience I found of doing it that way - and honestly I think more people relate to the concept of a recycle bin-as-board much better than trying to do it inline, or something else. Maybe we could make the usage of ids and so on a little more elegant but the general process seems pretty logical for users.
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Added in r539.
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BTW what's going to happen when all newly created Wedge forums get this in their board list?
1. My first board
3. My second board
"Hey man, where has id_board #2 gone?!
- Err... I don't know, I'm not a specialist. I just created my boards is all.
- Tis the apocalypse!! We're all gona DIE!!!!111"
(What, I already did that one? 'kay..)I'm going on the usability experience I found of doing it that way - and honestly I think more people relate to the concept of a recycle bin-as-board much better than trying to do it inline, or something else. Maybe we could make the usage of ids and so on a little more elegant but the general process seems pretty logical for users.
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In that case, how about we get funky and make the recycled board 0 (since there's no technical reason I'm aware of that prevents it)? Or, failing that, 65535 and reset the board id back to 2 thereafter.
I don't know what you mean, but what I know is that I've never liked seeing several topics created when you delete several posts in a row from a same topic. Topic IDs are precious. Don't waste them. These posts should be integrated into the recycled topic all the same.
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In that case, how about we get funky and make the recycled board 0 (since there's no technical reason I'm aware of that prevents it)?
I replaced with 0, and it said "duplicate primary key 1"; basically, MySQL considered the '0' to be '1'.
I could make sure it accepts 0, but then I get this warning:
http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/server-sql-mode.html#sqlmode_no_auto_value_on_zero
Basically, they don't recommend using 0 as a valid value.
What do you think...?Or, failing that, 65535 and reset the board id back to 2 thereafter.
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Yes, 65535 is the maximum value as it's an unsigned smallint column.
Maybe I should sit down and map the schema sometime so we can see where the column gets replicated to (off the top of my head, id_board is used as a foreign key in: messages, boards, members as a comma sep. value, board permissions)
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OTOH, if someone has enough members to have 65k+ blogs/forums on their install, they're BOUND to know about MySQL and stuff, and they'll be able to deal with that by themselves, because they'll have studied what limits Wedge/SMF have for huge websites... (I suppose.)
But what about my first question?
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Hmm, you're right about the recycle board 0 business.
Guess it might be time to consider something else?
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It's technically possible. Anything preventing us from going forward?
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I'm not overly keen on having errors, so having 0 seems out, but if 65535 is still viable, then we can use that provided there's a suitable ALTER TABLE after it.
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Errors? How so?
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You were saying about getting warnings...?
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Link says how to fix the error but says it's not recommended. I just don't know why.
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Ah, now I remember. The issue comes on insertion, on an auto increment column, using 0 normally makes it insert the next value. The flag disables that so passing NULL is the only way to do so.
We'd have to make sure that DB backup+restore took care of this, but that is the only time AFAIK.
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Yes, so what do you think we should do...? Use 0 or not?
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We can use 0 provided we're careful. Note there'd have to be a call at the start of install to use that parameter.
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Yup...
I'm just worried that people using mysqldump on an older version of MySQL would get issues.
Fact is -- the help file doesn't say WHEN it started behaving correctly for it.
Ah, well.
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Hmm, that's true. Maybe we should go with 65535 after all.
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It's just that id 0 is so well suited to a trashcan... See what I mean?
Well, I've implemented this code and it works:
ALTER TABLE {$db_prefix}boards AUTO_INCREMENT = 0;
SET sql_mode = 'NO_AUTO_VALUE_ON_ZERO';
INSERT INTO {$db_prefix}boards
(id_board, id_cat, board_order, id_last_msg, id_msg_updated, name, description, url, urllen, num_topics, num_posts, member_groups)
VALUES (0, 1, 2, 0, 0, '{$default_recycling_board_name}', '{$default_recycling_board_description}', '{$default_recycling_board_url}', CHAR_LENGTH('{$default_recycling_board_url}'), 0, 0, '2');
SET sql_mode = '';
Now I have a board=0.0 for the recycle bin. However:
- it still shows up first in the list, even though it has order set to 2 (and the main board set to 1)
- anything that tests for $_GET['board'] needs to be double-checked to make sure they don't test for empty() or (int)==0... Because right now,
(a) can't even view the recycle bin board, it just redirects me to the homepage... (with "board=0.0" in the URL)
(b) can't move topics to there with the dedicated function -- it just does nothing after I confirm.
Let me do a big "siiiigh".
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Argh, so many things that interplay here :( Not sure what to suggest.
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I've always hated the recycle bin...
Having one by default, well, never been excited with the idea obviously.
But it has to have a special ID. I suppose something like id=100 would be acceptable, considering all the trouble that id=0 would bring. I'm not fond of having a "gap" but...
Posted: February 14th, 2011, 10:57 PM
Holy schmoly...
Create recycle bin = 100;
(Ok)
ALTER wedge_board SET AUTO_INCREMENT = 2;
(Ok)
Then I create a new board and I get..................... id_board = 101??????!!!!!
Headache...
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Oh FFS, I forgot about that. Boards runs a couple of reorder table ops when adding a new board, which likely nukes the increment counter.
:edit: My temper here is related to the fact that we change one thing and two others break in an unexpected fashion.
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So, you mean that's SMF doing its little thing right...?
I thought of that and I was looking into the code to find the culprit...
I guess I'll keep lookin'.
Posted: February 14th, 2011, 11:17 PM
Sorry, no can find.... :-/
It doesn't seem to be touching the board ID at creation time. Maybe later..?
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Prior to creation, it reorders all the boards. Incidentally it's broken on PGSQL and InnoDB for this reason and is an occasional support query, the answer to which is to stop relying on MyISAM behaviour and order it properly (the side effect of the ordering the do is to ensure rows are physically in the table in the right order, so order by null still gets you the correct order)
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I do see that createBoard() calls modifyBoard(), which itself reassigns 'order' values to the boards, but it doesn't touch id_board values at all... I think the id_board=101 is a MySQL thing. Basically, if AUTO_INCREMENT <= MAX(auto_increment_column), it resets it to MAX(auto_increment_column) + 1. Now, maybe there's a SQL option somewhere to avoid that... Or we could just as well drop the AUTO_INCREMENT thingy and simply add our id_board manually for each new board -- at worst it's only an extra query to do.
Okay I've committed my latest changes, hopefully you'll like them... (I really do, but I understand it's a matter of taste.)
Unrelated, but I have to go to bed so I can't bother to look for the right topic -- I'm thinking of renaming the 'css' folder to something that doesn't say 'css' really. Or rename 'scripts' to 'js' because that'd make more sense. But I'd rather rename 'css' to either 'styles' or 'stylings', so that themers aren't frightened at the idea of putting their graphic files into their styling subfolders. (Which I'd recommend doing, if only because it's easier to manage for themers, as well as users who have plenty of stylings.) Any ideas on your side?
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simply add our id_board manually for each new board -- at worst it's only an extra query to do.
(Which I'd recommend doing, if only because it's easier to manage for themers, as well as users who have plenty of stylings.) Any ideas on your side?
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simply add our id_board manually for each new board -- at worst it's only an extra query to do.
Styles or stylings works for me, it's certainly more accurate than css.
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Maybe this is a sign that we have to rethink how recycled topics need to be handled. Or we accept that having board 2 as-is isn't an entirely bad thing.
Okay. Anyone else? Would you rather have a 'styles' or 'stylings' folder?
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Maybe this is a sign that we have to rethink how recycled topics need to be handled. Or we accept that having board 2 as-is isn't an entirely bad thing.
Alternatively, we could rewrite the recycle bin stuff to leave deleted topics/posts in their place and just consider them as unapproved... Then we could simply have somewhere in the admin area an "unapproved posts/topics browser" or something. That would actually be my preferred solution.FWIW, I'd rather have styles, it's shorter and easier to remember.
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Leaving it at 2 isn't *that* bad, IMO, but I can see why it should probably be moved.
Alternatively, we could rewrite the recycle bin stuff to leave deleted topics/posts in their place and just consider them as unapproved... Then we could simply have somewhere in the admin area an "unapproved posts/topics browser" or something. That would actually be my preferred solution.
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Leaving it at 2 isn't *that* bad, IMO, but I can see why it should probably be moved.
There's already an unapproved posts/topics browser in the moderation centre.
But honestly, I think that makes it too likely that stuff gets brought back into the ecosystem, not to mention the fact that in every way you slice it, the UI ends up sucking badly, whether you make it 'deleted' but left inline, or moderated for the purposes of deletion. (SimpleDesk moved from an SMF style to the whole inline thing, and it's one of the few things that while I wrote, I ended up really hating in practice)
I think we should ask others what they think about this...
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that's a board you'll really never get to use at all, so you'll delete it (if you can/think of it), and it'll create a gap in the board list... (Less of a problem, though.)
Which I never use, hence my ignorance
UI? Why is it a UI problem at all?
I think we should ask others what they think about this...
Have a play with what SimpleDesk does with respect to deleted posts and see how it feels. It looks and feels a lot like post moderation, and works basically the same way too - but it's a different thing altogether.
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(PLEASE READ THE FEB. 15 POSTS EVERYONE!)
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The question was about the Recycle Bin.
Pete thinks that it's best to create it by default, so that it's easier to find etc.
I think that we should drop the recycle bin and replace it with inline deletion --- i.e. if you delete a post, it shows up in the original topic, or if you delete a topic it shows up in the original board, only with a different color (also different from the "unapproved" color obviously), and only for those who can view them (original authors, admins). With the ability to restore them.
Well, that's my opinion but since we happen to disagree on UI matters, I think it can only be settled by checking for everyone else's opinion ;)
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Specifically, I think inline deletion is a PITA, especially since it'll confuse people who have post moderation on, and I learned with SimpleDesk that it's not very effective. But that's me.
I don't think the recycle bin is the best way either, having seen this discussion in the last few days, so perhaps we need to step back and think of something else, that solves all our issues with it.
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Inline deletion FTW honestly. Its far better than Recycle board and much cleaner when it comes to restoring.
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Dragooon, have you tried working with it? It feels hideous in practice - just try it out in SimpleDesk.
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Working with inline deletion? Yeah on my project, but I have a far centralized core than SMF so its much easier for me, I can see the problems with a billion queries out there.
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I don't mean performance, I mean, I did it in SimpleDesk and it's not a killer - but it always felt so wrong to use.
To me, if you delete a post, you want rid of it, out of the thread entirely. I just can't see how it would be the way to do it in a forum. I think we need to look for plan C.
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Shift+del equivalent? ;)
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I don't mean performance, I mean, I did it in SimpleDesk and it's not a killer - but it always felt so wrong to use.
To me, if you delete a post, you want rid of it, out of the thread entirely. I just can't see how it would be the way to do it in a forum. I think we need to look for plan C.
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Then how do we display it? For that matter how do we restore ids after?
I think we can leave the table alone and just revamp the interface in some way...?
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Keep the IDs(For restoring you can just insert the whole row as is) and don't display it? I mean you can create another section for just the moderation.
Or rather, set the id_board in messages or topics to 0, that way you don't set up a new board and you get the ability to enable it by default. Have another field id_old_board and do some special php-fu to display it inside the topic.
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Interesting ideas from you both.
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Inline deletion doesn't quite work: it feels like the post gets unapproved. I like the recycled approach better where the deleted post gets moved.
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What about a "tab" (like browsers one) in every board for recycled stuff?
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It's more of a style concern than UI issue right..?
BTW I added a poll yesterday, if you guys want to simply vote your preference without defending it.
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Hard to say...I would like a new approach, a better way of doing that. Inline is nice. I like the recycled approach still but it's getting old school. :P
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I think inline is going to compete with moderated, and if I have a spam post that was moderated, I don't want it just to change colour :P
Hence my thought that maybe we need to find something new to do about it.
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I think inline is going to compete with moderated, and if I have a spam post that was moderated, I don't want it just to change colour :P
Hence my thought that maybe we need to find something new to do about it.
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I haven't, no. Maybe I should...
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Looks like it uses inline...
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That's inline - sorta. The normal process for 'inline' is to throw a different background on it, like moderated posts currently do, and what SimpleDesk does - and that's wrong to me.
What XF does is nicer, much nicer, but it's still a bit close to "You are ignoring this user" for my liking.
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That's inline - sorta. The normal process for 'inline' is to throw a different background on it, like moderated posts currently do, and what SimpleDesk does - and that's wrong to me.
What XF does is nicer, much nicer, but it's still a bit close to "You are ignoring this user" for my liking.
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I think inline is going to compete with moderated, and if I have a spam post that was moderated, I don't want it just to change colour :P
Or you could for instance, as I suggested, hold the Shift key when clicking 'Delete', and JavaScript will catch this and tell Wedge that you want to do an immediate and definitive delete ;)
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I should probably make a screenshot to indicate the problem. The general point is that unless you have the deleted post do something other than just the same as moderated but with a different colour, it's noisy. If I delete a post, I'm indicating I don't want it there at all.
WP does this to a point and I don't like it there either - in WP's case, you get a big list of comments to look at, white BG = visible, yellow = moderated. When you delete a moderated post, it collapses to a much smaller row with 'this has been deleted'. The whole point of deletion is that I wanted to delete it, and it be gone, rather than to have traces left.
I guess it sort of depends on the interface style, but if you collapse it down to something like that, you still end up with something pretty similar visually to the whole 'You are ignoring this user' bit.
In short, whatever you do with it keeping it in the topic page, you still collide stylistically with one or other of what's already present.
As for shift-delete, that's still got problems, and all you end up with is SMF without the recycle bin, which is one step forward and then one back again.
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I really like the gist of deleting posts inline. My main concern is how posts will be toggled, though. I quite like the looks of how XenForo does it, judging by the screenshot posted above. If Wedge's implementation will be anything like it, it'll probably have my approval. :)
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/megets the distinct impression of being out voted... That's OK provided we implement it right though.
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Well, you did vote for "Don't know"... :D
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And I don't care as long as it please someone. :D
Can inlines be restored or...?
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Yes, because I can't help but think there's something else we can do that's better.
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Ok I went back to play around XF on my local...so there's is a undelete action option there...
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Yep, I do like the looks of that ... :)
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Grmpf... I like their "Deletion Type" UI.
Pete, if you want to vote for non-inline, you can still do it eh ;)
Plus, it's hard to determine common grounds based on half a dozen votes, see what I mean?
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I am coming round to it but before we start implementing anything like it, I need to know what we're going to do with posts from users you're ignoring because right now, they're pretty similar stylistically.
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Sorry guys, I'm not at home these days and I can't vote from my phone (wap2 template doesn't handle polls!).
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I am coming round to it but before we start implementing anything like it, I need to know what we're going to do with posts from users you're ignoring because right now, they're pretty similar stylistically.
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That's what happens with posts from people you have on your ignore list. You get their name, no avatar, no poster info and the entire message is replaced with 'You are ignoring this person, click here to see what they said'.
Hence my concern because it looks pretty similar to inline deletion with what's been proposed.
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Different backgrounds should do the trick really...
Something like,
Blue: unapproved
Gray: ignored
Red: deleted
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OK, I'll buy that. (Then it's the themers' problem if they don't keep the style :niark:)
What we should do is mock up how it looks doing inline deletion that way (how XF does it, collapsing it down to a limited space rather than showing the full post, while moderated can show the full post)
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We also need to determine if regular users see a "This comment was deleted by a moderator/by its author" (like on imdb.com for instance) or just don't see the message at all...
I'd vote for showing them, because then we can keep the same page numbering for topics. (i.e. as long as a post isn't completely deleted, the start variable will bring you to the exact same list of posts in a page.)
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Yeah, I'd like that. Not only does it keep consistency in pages, it also provides some consistency to the discussion, I don't know how many times I saw discussions that got altered because a post was removed, changing how the remaining posts were read.
NB there should still be a permadelete that actually deletes posts too...
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So... Do we agree on getting rid of the recycle bin? Or do you want to keep it (just not with a recycle board added by default...)
Permdel: do you mean alongside the regular Delete button, or as replacement for the Delete button when the post is in Deleted mode? Second one, right?
Did you have a look at my WarmWine BTW? What do you think? You can compare the two easily. I'm planning to set Warm as the default styling soon, so I'll need to have the child stylings be based upon Warm rather than Pastel... Is it okay or not? The main difference is in the padding in the header, as well as the menu font. (I think I prefer Verdana, when I compare the two... But I prefer Tahoma for the div that pops up.)
I also just noticed that WarmWine is buggy in IE6: the menu popups don't show at all... That's probably due to the shiv showing up in front of the actual popup. Uh >_<
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So... Do we agree on getting rid of the recycle bin? Or do you want to keep it (just not with a recycle board added by default...)
Permdel: do you mean alongside the regular Delete button, or as replacement for the Delete button when the post is in Deleted mode? Second one, right?
Did you have a look at my WarmWine BTW?
Posted: February 17th, 2011, 05:18 PM
Also, how do we display a deleted topic?
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I think we do, as a structure. The key thing for me is that we create the situation where, by default, a post being deleted is not permanent. It *can* be made to be default that a post being deleted is permanent, but that the default is a soft delete.
However, if soft deletes are default, then I think it should be associated with enabling post moderation -- so it should be enabled by default. IIRC if post moderation (core features) is disabled, SMF/Wedge don't check for the is_approved bit. We'd need to check it everytime because we'll probably use is_approved to store the state (unapproved/approved/deleted).
Okay I should probably check the actual code before I say things like that ahah...Replacement for the delete button when the post is deleted, or if the admin so desires, replacing it normally. But the default should be to replace it in deleted mode.
Not yet, I felt like hell and went back to bed, only just got back up, just in time to do chores.
In the meantime I've converted all of the stylings to the simple css syntax. Phew! It was a bit nightmarish... It's not perfect and it's untested, so I'll probably wait until tomorrow to commit, but at least it's done. Means I can really move Warm to be the default...Also, how do we display a deleted topic?
Either we don't show anything, and do it only in the admin area, or we show the deleted topic link only for admins but in the message index itself, or we show the 'deleted by...' mention for everyone. Red background probably ain't too good when you just say "deleted" without linking, btw (same for showing a "message deleted" mention inside topics for non-admins. Should be a bit grayish or something I guess...)
.approvebg, things like that... There are different background colors available for the message index. We just need to add a new one for deleted topics.
Topics also have a is_approved flag IIRC. (Or they use the one for the very first post. Either way, it shouldn't be a performance issue to have this.)
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We'd need to check it everytime because we'll probably use is_approved to store the state (unapproved/approved/deleted).
I'd hate to restore something that was pending moderation and find it was auto approved in the process.
I'm seriously debating making post moderation permanently enabled rather than optional - I hear the concerns over performance but I have a feeling we can do something about that too. If it's handling deletion, it must be, basically.Had TV time, whereupon I was iPad-bound ;)Topics also have a is_approved flag IIRC. (Or they use the one for the very first post. Either way, it shouldn't be a performance issue to have this.)
And then fix up the hellspawn that is the moderation center (or should we gut that and do something better?)
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I think all (and just) the deleted stuff should appear in it's own 'ghost topic' that opens in a new tab/window.
A small icon at the top of the thread to show how much is/isn't there.
<shrug>
I'm usually just a 'user' on a forum, so the less cluttered the better.
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So... What do we do with the recycled board? :^^;:
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Well, there is favour for the inline-deleted style. My principle concern was the UI for it (though permissions are tricky, too) in which case if we mock up how the UI looks we can get a sense of whether that needs fixing or not.
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Well, there is favour for the inline-deleted style.
My principle concern was the UI for it (though permissions are tricky, too) in which case if we mock up how the UI looks we can get a sense of whether that needs fixing or not.
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Keeping the UI lean is important, sure. And this particular one is something that bothered me quite significantly to do something about. I think it's worth mocking up in a test page before full on implementation and seeing if it feels 'right' or not.
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Who gonna do the mock-up? :^^;:
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This topic died right in the middle of the discussion so I think it's a good candidate for moving it to the pub (if only for a wider audience for the poll.)
Plus, I re-read everything and there are no private discussions.
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I'm in favor of the recycle bin on by default. As a former Vb user I never liked seeing the deleted posts in topic, seems like waste of space to me. I mean hell they were deleted for a reason and it's up to the post author and the moderation staff to debate if it should be restored or not. If I'm set to see 20 posts per page I'd rather not have 5 of them being post deleted notices.
@Arantor - How about using a similar setup as you did with displaying SD as a board, whereas the recycle bin would be action=moderate;sa=recycled and just present it as a board, follow up with access/permission controls. Also I agree with a previous post about multiple recycle bins, per category or specify for each bin which boards' deleted posts end up there.
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Interesting idea, I hadn't actually thought of doing it like that. That works for me, on all the levels.
The way I did it in SD was hackish but it has given me food for thought in other directions, actually.
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Go ahead and vote, guys!
Although at this point, it looks like the community is split, which generally means: no action, everything stays the same. And doesn't fix my existential problem with a recycle board set to id 1 or 2. :P
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Arantor can correct me on this but I dont think board id's come into play with the way its done in SD, it basically a faked up redirect board.
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That's exactly what SD does, it injects a fake board (and category if needed) with fake id and links back to the help desk instead of to a "board". No board is consumed, no board=x in the URL.
As far as giving me ideas, it makes me think about being able to indicate a type of board to the template.
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I'm in favor of the recycle bin on by default. As a former Vb user I never liked seeing the deleted posts in topic, seems like waste of space to me........
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Can you please elaborate, guys..?
And I'm willing to listen to everything, as long as someone finds an idea to fix the recycle bin forum ID problem...
(Which is only a problem when Pretty URLs are not enabled, obviously.)
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That's exactly what SD does, it injects a fake board (and category if needed) with fake id and links back to the help desk instead of to a "board". No board is consumed, no board=x in the URL.
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Well, if we leave the deleted stuff in place, excluding them in normal posts, and make them available through the mod centre... And create a virtual board for it like we do in SD, it's covered.
And technically Wedge could do that, because all it requires is an expansion in Subs-BoardIndex to expand the array.
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I'm still for the addition of a tab that contains all deleted posts (visible only to whom has perms to view it). :)
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...which is almost exactly what is now being suggested.
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Yes, I meant a tab IN the topic (not in the header menu or in the moderation center), and if there are no deleted posts in that topic it's not displayed. :)
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Yes, I meant a tab IN the topic (not in the header menu or in the moderation center), and if there are no deleted posts in that topic it's not displayed. :)
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I voted for 'inline'. Because I like that format best.
As a Admin on 4 forums I don't want any deleted post going off to the red universe.
Sometimes when pissing matches start and people start deleting posts, the only way I can settle things is to review the deleted posts.
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(http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/5325/irrelephant.jpg)
Sorry, but both functions seem not really something to be discuss because I don't find it relative in the script. (and the image is really cool and I wanted to use it)
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Relative in the script?
Okay, from what I read, the most popular way of doing it would be to delete the recycle bin feature, use an extra flag for deleted posts, hide them from the original topic, and build a short and sweet interface to go through deleted posts, sorted by topic, and allow to delete them permanently. Am I right?
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That's pretty much where we're at.
Thing is, whatever we do, someone isn't going to like it, and we will have to accept that. Mind you, the bulk of the concern as far as the short and sweet interface is concerned is about getting the context of the posts, so what the short and sweet interface needs to do is present the full thread with the deleted posts in the right places.
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You can leave the possibility to create a board for recycled topics and add an option to use this new system.. or the contrary (new system by default but the possibility to use the old one).
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There is no good reason to provide two totally different methods and interfaces for the same thing. That's not going to help users, it's going to confuse them even more.
cf. SMF: Admin > Members > Permissions: Classic vs Simple
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I see no problem with going through what you described, Pete. You have my vote. I think it's the only way to make everyone happy :)
(I'd implement it with pleasure, and I probably will from the sound of it, but seriously have you seen my to-do-list? :P)
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script/software/wedge whatever :P
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I like the idea of a foe board/doing it in the moderation center. Inline works too. In my mind if I wanted a protection board (recycle board) I would just set up a board with restrictive permissions and just move stuff doesn't work well for posts but great for topics.
As for posts deleted from the same topic, maybe they could be grouped together in a single "topic" in the fake board/moderation center and when you view them have a link to "View in context" which would show them in the topic (not viewable by those who would not normally see them.)
Anyway don't think I covered anything "new."
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In my mind if I wanted a protection board (recycle board) I would just set up a board with restrictive permissions and just move stuff doesn't work well for posts but great for topics.
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If you'll have a look at the smf bug report center, I devoted a report to having posts grouped by topics in the recycle board. They didntgive a damn. It's my mission then :niark:
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If you'll have a look at the smf bug report center, I devoted a report to having posts grouped by topics in the recycle board. They didntgive a damn. It's my mission then :niark:
In my mind if I wanted a protection board (recycle board) I would just set up a board with restrictive permissions and just move stuff doesn't work well for posts but great for topics.
Be it inline, or a fake recycle bin I am glad to see that there will be innovation even in something as "simple" as post moderation. Lots of developers forget every step in the process effects usability and overall user experience.
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They mainly get lost in endless discussions about features ;)
I tend to naturally get fed up after talking for a while, and jump straight into work to implement my ideas.
After all, there's no rule saying that whatever I'm committing shall remain that way. Nothing is set in stone.
Problem is, sometimes there are so many things we discuss at the same time -- I just end up forgetting a few things to implement. I would so love if readers could bump topics where a discussion was taking place and suddenly there's nothing else, without any mention of the implementation.
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I "don't know" If i would use it and "I don't care" if it would be implemented. It sounds reasonable either way :)
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It's already implemented. The whole point of this thread is _how_...
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Yeah, the current view is that what's there - making an existing SMF feature more prominent and turned on out of the box - isn't particularly ideal for a number of reasons, thus floating the idea of changing it and making it different and better. We're just not clear on how to make it better yet.
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It's already implemented. The whole point of this thread is _how_...
Yeah, the current view is that what's there - making an existing SMF feature more prominent and turned on out of the box - isn't particularly ideal for a number of reasons, thus floating the idea of changing it and making it different and better. We're just not clear on how to make it better yet.
I think let it be a board is quite strange. I would make some administration option for that and wouldn't let it be a part of the boards.
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That forum ~ board thing is always irritating. The ones call the whole thing board and then forums and others call it forum and have boards in it.
I think let it be a board is quite strange. I would make some administration option for that and wouldn't let it be a part of the boards
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Well, it's technically natural since that's how it's physically stored.
Yup. When we say forum, we mean the entire forum thing, and a board is one area where there are topics.
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I'm still for the addition of a tab that contains all deleted posts (visible only to whom has perms to view it). :)
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I guess well do something in that flavor.
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BUMP :P
So this came to mind today in a discussion elsewhere.
The way SMF handles deleted posts is that it recalculates the replies such that If I should reference lets say reply #27 in a topic but then any reply prior to #27 is deleted the reference to reply #27 no longer makes sense.... where as in vb the replies are not recalculated when they are deleted there is just a gap in sequence for example 1,2,3,4,7,9,11,12,15...etc, so a reference to a reply number would actually indicate that replies have been deleted.
Thoughts... I know I was rambling there, blame the rum :)
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I suppose it make more sense. And it allows one to see if a post was silently deleted.
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Part of the reason it's more important is that in vB you can actually pull up an individual post, and there it's actually called for by post number (as opposed to by msg id)
The only real problem is how to safely generate said number, unless it's done after the post has been added. (Yay for race conditions.)