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Public area => The Pub => Topic started by: Arantor on May 27th, 2013, 05:21 PM

Title: Not using version numbers as such
Post by: Arantor on May 27th, 2013, 05:21 PM
OK, so after yet another badly worded support question "using smf 2.0.4 or something like that", it made me wonder, should we consider not using numbers for versions but instead using names?

I am still amazed how many people mangle the version number with SMF to date.

I don't mean doing quite what Ubuntu does, I don't see us doing Messed-Up Mallard or Braindead Badger or whatever the hell they're naming Ubuntu these days - nor do I quite have the same idea we had for SimpleDesk, which was to give each release an animal theme (and we all had appropriate avatars, the first round we all had cat avatars and named it Felidae, the cat species, the second round was Anatidae for ducks)

I just think we could use something a bit different to give them names. My gut instinct is to go with mythological names but I know phpBB did that (they have Olympus and other such mythological names) and I'd rather do something a bit different.

Thoughts?

(I just figure that if we go for distinctive names it'll be easier than trying to get people to get the version *number* right)
Title: Re: Not using version numbers as such
Post by: xrunner on May 27th, 2013, 06:00 PM
Yea names are easy to remember. Other options -

Moons and asteroids of the solar system

Or generate a random name for each version (just pick a first name) -

Random Name Generator(http://www.behindthename.com/random/)

I selected Africa and Galician and got these -

Zephania
Chukwuma
Estevo

Fantasy Name Generator(http://www.rinkworks.com/namegen/)

Or Dark Elf Names for versions - :yahoo:

Iraledo
Tydre
Imiredu
Ezmar
Rinaz
Ovitaz

Dark Elf Name Generator(http://www.seventhsanctum.com/generate.php?Genname=darkelfnamer)
Title: Re: Not using version numbers as such
Post by: Arantor on May 27th, 2013, 06:07 PM
Some good ideas there :)

There's always rare stones, e.g Sapphire, Topaz, Garnet, etc. (just not Ruby :lol:)... "Wedge, the jewel of the forum world" :lol:

I wonder what @Nao thinks.
Title: Re: Not using version numbers as such
Post by: kimikelku on May 27th, 2013, 06:37 PM
What about god names like in the ancient Egypt?
Or chemicals from the periodic table.
Title: Re: Not using version numbers as such
Post by: icari on May 27th, 2013, 07:05 PM
good luck with people remembering the name that they have installed or upgraded to. i bet in a short amount of time some users will have issues remembering which version they are running.
Title: Re: Not using version numbers as such
Post by: Arantor on May 27th, 2013, 07:06 PM
Would that really be any worse than what users do now with SMF?

If just one person gets it right that wouldn't have otherwise, that's a net win, yes?
Title: Re: Not using version numbers as such
Post by: Nao on May 27th, 2013, 09:31 PM
Constellations? Star names? Mizar, Dubhe, Alkaid... gotta love these Ursa Major stars.

Or something else entirely...
Title: Re: Not using version numbers as such
Post by: Arantor on May 27th, 2013, 09:34 PM
On that note a certain star system from a certain space faring game comes to mind[1] :lol:

I'm good with anything that gives us plenty of distinctive names that isn't really used by anyone else. Egyptian mythology is cool, constellations and star names are cool. Not quite so keen on element names unless we pick the obscure ones, heh. Francium comes to mind :lol: And Europium.
 1. The original version of Elite back in the 1980s had procedural systems and whatnot, generated from lookup tables, one of which managed to generate Arse as a system name.
Title: Re: Not using version numbers as such
Post by: icari on May 27th, 2013, 09:54 PM
Quote from Arantor on May 27th, 2013, 07:06 PM
Would that really be any worse than what users do now with SMF?

If just one person gets it right that wouldn't have otherwise, that's a net win, yes?
and how many may get it wrong? :P either way people will get it wrong or not remember correctly
Title: Re: Not using version numbers as such
Post by: Arantor on May 27th, 2013, 09:56 PM
That's the beauty, if they don't remember correctly, they just need to be 'almost right'.

But how many people get the SMF version number wrong. Only today I've seen '1.18' (1.1.18), 20.4, 2.4 2.4rc (all actually meaning 2.0.4)... give them a name to focus on instead and it'll be clearer. Sure we can still use a number internally but name seems a better prospect all in all to me.

/meis amazed there is someone with a lower opinion of user intelligence than him
Title: Re: Not using version numbers as such
Post by: icari on May 27th, 2013, 10:24 PM
oh there has been people posting they have 1.1.8 when i think they mean 1.1.18 :P makes the support team think they have a insecure version
Title: Re: Not using version numbers as such
Post by: Arantor on May 27th, 2013, 10:32 PM
Exactly. It's that kind of thing I want to deal with. People aren't built for numbers.

You ask them what kind of car they have, they can almost always tell you the make and model, but not so much the year it came out. People are just better, generally, at associating names with things rather than numbers, it's just how we're built.
Title: Re: Not using version numbers as such
Post by: icari on May 27th, 2013, 11:04 PM
well you can try it and see how well it works out.
Title: Re: Not using version numbers as such
Post by: xrunner on May 27th, 2013, 11:30 PM
Playing with more names (OK I'm boerd at the moment :))

All from here -

Seventh Sanctum(http://www.seventhsanctum.com/index-tech.php)

Names with an 'evil' sound, based on Tolkein's languages-

Bendu
Dorgongu
Kotung
Lillaron
Mormetu
Nagliaur
Wenglrantu

More collected names -

Shiverclaw
Fangslice
Ironsnare
Stonemace
Springsnare
Flamespell
Ripvenom

Fantasy materials -

Mentalium
Neorus
Nioberus
Sarcorus
Uranisite
Vanadon
Bromogen
Calcogen
Photium
Plutonite
Radite

^^^ This type seems pretty cool. Easy to remember but unique.

Before we can help you, what version of Wedge are you using JohannB[1]?

Mentalium! :yobrother:
 1. LOL :troll:
Title: Re: Not using version numbers as such
Post by: biza on May 27th, 2013, 11:53 PM
hi,
whatever name theme you choose, it should be on some order so people can know if you are talking about newer or older version. Ubuntu and Google (Android) are doing alphabet order, but it will be cooler to have some other order...

Maybe you can open this forum memberlist, sort it by date (older first) and start naming versions... that could be fun...

Cheers!
Title: Re: Not using version numbers as such
Post by: Kindred on May 28th, 2013, 12:31 AM
do the names based on the first letter based from the Fibonacci sequence....
Title: Re: Not using version numbers as such
Post by: Arantor on May 28th, 2013, 12:34 AM
0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144...

Assuming we start with 0 = A, and take modulo 26... that gives us:
A, B, B, C, D, F, I, N, V, I, D, L, O

Interesting.
Title: Re: Not using version numbers as such
Post by: Dragooon on May 28th, 2013, 05:40 AM
Doctor Who characters?
Title: Re: Not using version numbers as such
Post by: Arantor on May 28th, 2013, 05:42 AM
Oddly enough that had occurred to me, but I thought it might be weird not to mention possibly litigious (they are trademarks after all) but the *planets* those things come from probably are OK.
Title: Re: Not using version numbers as such
Post by: godboko71 on May 28th, 2013, 09:28 AM
How about habitable planets, though not all of them have been named yet so that may not be a good idea after all.
Title: Re: Not using version numbers as such
Post by: MultiformeIngegno on May 28th, 2013, 12:53 PM
Since it's a "European" product, why not something from the cradle of our culture :D http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Greek_mythological_figures
Title: Re: Not using version numbers as such
Post by: Arantor on May 28th, 2013, 01:28 PM
Because I don't want to copy phpBB ;)
Title: Re: Not using version numbers as such
Post by: MultiformeIngegno on May 28th, 2013, 01:58 PM
Quote from Arantor on May 28th, 2013, 01:28 PM
Because I don't want to copy phpBB ;)
They just had Olympus and Ascraeus if I'm not wrong ... :)
Title: Re: Not using version numbers as such
Post by: Arantor on May 28th, 2013, 02:00 PM
They've also mentioned 4.0's name which is also Greek inspired.
Title: Re: Not using version numbers as such
Post by: Nao on May 28th, 2013, 02:02 PM
If they're showing their mythology names somewhere, I'm too bad at finding them then...

Anyway, I've had a look at these...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_proper_names_of_stars
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_proper_names_of_stars_in_alphabetical_order

Only the letter Q is missing, and could be substituted with something else. (Look for "Qanturis" for instance.)
There's only one star that has a name (alternative name, actually) starting with an "i".
We have a large choice of names, other than that... ;)
Could even have an "A" public alpha series starting with "Alphard", where we change the star name every time we release a new alpha... Alcor[1], Altair, Antares, etc... And a B series starting with Betelgeuse (Beta), then Benetnasch, etc...

I don't have any other ideas, though. But I'm putting a veto on anything even remotely related to fantasy stuff like Tolkien, sorry... :P I like LOTR, but I'm sick of all those Legolas people in RPGs... :lol:

I could be convinced into choosing names from sci-fi books, though...
Or maybe Norse mythology? Starting with Asgard, of course..!
 1. Okay, I won't hide the fact that my #1 cultural reference is, and always be, a TV show named Saint Seiya, which emanuele is familiar with -- it was popular in France, Italy and Spain mostly -- and my favorite part of the show was set in Asgard, with the main characters fighting a set of antagonists named after the main stars in Ursa Major, so, yeah, you get the idea... And my favorite of those, is named Alcor Bud. Then you have Mizar Syd, Benetnasch Mime, Phecda Thor, and so on.
Title: Re: Not using version numbers as such
Post by: Arantor on May 28th, 2013, 02:21 PM
Quote from Nao on May 28th, 2013, 02:02 PM
If they're showing their mythology names somewhere, I'm too bad at finding them then...
https://www.phpbb.com/about/history/
3.0 = Olympus, 3.1 = Ascraeus, 3.2 = Arsia, 4.0 = Rhea

AFAIK they're all Greek in origin.
Quote from Nao on May 28th, 2013, 02:02 PM
Anyway, I've had a look at these...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_proper_names_of_stars
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_proper_names_of_stars_in_alphabetical_order

Only the letter Q is missing, and could be substituted with something else. (Look for "Qanturis" for instance.)
As long as we don't try and emulate Ubuntu... Breezy Badger, Dapper Drake, Feisty Fawn, Gutsy Gibbon, Hardy Heron were reasonable, but then it started getting silly... Intrepid Ibex, Jaunty Jackalope, Karmia Koala, Lucid Lynx... seriously I'm not making this up... Maverick Meerkat, Natty Narwhal[1], Oneiric Ocelot, Precise Pangolin, Quantal Quetzal (there's a WTF), Raring Ringtail, Saucy Salamander... who thinks this up?

But it proves my point about naming, when you pull down from repos, you refer to breezy, dapper, etc. not the version number.
Quote from Nao on May 28th, 2013, 02:02 PM
There's only one star that has a name (alternative name, actually) starting with an "i".
We have a large choice of names, other than that... ;)
Plenty of choice, certainly. We could keep it simpler and just use names mentioned in Hitchhiker's Guide, there's fewer in there. ;) Not the complete alphabet if memory serves but I'm not entirely big on the 'rotating through the alphabet' thing.
Quote from Nao on May 28th, 2013, 02:02 PM
Could even have an "A" public alpha series starting with "Alphard", where we change the star name every time we release a new alpha... Alcor[2], Altair, Antares, etc... And a B series starting with Betelgeuse (Beta), then Benetnasch, etc...
 2. Okay, I won't hide the fact that my #1 cultural reference is, and always be, a TV show named Saint Seiya, which emanuele is familiar with -- it was popular in France, Italy and Spain mostly -- and my favorite part of the show was set in Asgard, with the main characters fighting a set of antagonists named after the main stars in Ursa Major, so, yeah, you get the idea... And my favorite of those, is named Alcor Bud. Then you have Mizar Syd, Benetnasch Mime, Phecda Thor, and so on.
Nothing wrong with that. My own cultural references are surprisingly poor these days, it's been years since I've seen or read anything with a decent cast of characters and places, barring H2G2 of course.
Quote from Nao on May 28th, 2013, 02:02 PM
I don't have any other ideas, though. But I'm putting a veto on anything even remotely related to fantasy stuff like Tolkien, sorry... :P I like LOTR, but I'm sick of all those Legolas people in RPGs... :lol:

I could be convinced into choosing names from sci-fi books, though...
Or maybe Norse mythology? Starting with Asgard, of course..!
Yeah, agree with you on LOTR type naming. Norse mythology is cool, but off hand I don't know many names beyond the obvious (Asgard, Thor, Odin, Valhalla, Loki and for the few Dirk Gently fans, Mr Toerag.)
 1. Who the fuck uses 'natty' as an adjective any more?
Title: Re: Not using version numbers as such
Post by: Nao on May 28th, 2013, 03:04 PM
Quote from Arantor on May 28th, 2013, 02:21 PM
Quote from Nao on May 28th, 2013, 02:02 PM
If they're showing their mythology names somewhere, I'm too bad at finding them then...
https://www.phpbb.com/about/history/
3.0 = Olympus, 3.1 = Ascraeus, 3.2 = Arsia, 4.0 = Rhea

AFAIK they're all Greek in origin.
From what I can see, the first three are also volcanoes on Mars, and the fourth is a volcano on Venus... So, that's probably what they were looking from: extra-terrestrial volcano names...
Quote from Arantor on May 28th, 2013, 02:21 PM
Plenty of choice, certainly. We could keep it simpler and just use names mentioned in Hitchhiker's Guide, there's fewer in there. ;) Not the complete alphabet if memory serves but I'm not entirely big on the 'rotating through the alphabet' thing.
It's unlikely we'll ever get to Z anyway, ah ah... Well, even Kyodai Mahjongg, with its odd versioning system, never made it past version 21...
Quote from Arantor on May 28th, 2013, 02:21 PM
Nothing wrong with that. My own cultural references are surprisingly poor these days, it's been years since I've seen or read anything with a decent cast of characters and places, barring H2G2 of course.
Apart from Slartibartfast (sp?), Zappy Beeblebrox (sp?), Arthur Dent, Ford Prefect and Marvin the Paranoid Android, I don't remember anyone else... Even them -- their French names are easier for me to remember: Saloprilopette, Zappy BBC (sic!), Arthur Accroc, Ford Escort and, err.. Marvin.

Apart from the 5th book which I hate with a passion (I never got around to reading the recent 6th one), I loved them all, especially the first and fourth...
My other favorite books aren't exactly filled with easy-to-remember names, though... La Horde du Contrevent, Gloriana, What Mad Universe!, maybe Riverworld though..? It has many historical characters in it...

Anyway.
Quote from Arantor on May 28th, 2013, 02:21 PM
Yeah, agree with you on LOTR type naming. Norse mythology is cool, but off hand I don't know many names beyond the obvious (Asgard, Thor, Odin, Valhalla, Loki and for the few Dirk Gently fans, Mr Toerag.)
Asgard
Baldr/Baldur/Balder
C...Crap, Can't Conceive of one starting with C... :^^;:
Okay, let's just forget this one, I guess... ;)
Title: Re: Not using version numbers as such
Post by: Arantor on May 28th, 2013, 03:23 PM
Quote
Apart from Slartibartfast (sp?), Zappy Beeblebrox (sp?), Arthur Dent, Ford Prefect and Marvin the Paranoid Android, I don't remember anyone else... Even them -- their French names are easier for me to remember: Saloprilopette, Zappy BBC (sic!), Arthur Accroc, Ford Escort and, err.. Marvin.
Arthur Dent, Ford Prefect, Tricia "Trillian" MacMillan, Zaphod Beeblebrox (the First)[1], Marvin the Paranoid Android, Eddie the Ship Board Computer, Slartibartfast, Frankie and Benjy Mouse, Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz of the Galactic Hyperspace Planning Council, Mr L Prosser[2]...

...then there's the programmers of Deep Thought (and their 7.5m year old descendents) plus the philosophers Majikthise and Vroomfondel[3]... when they get to Milliways, they meet Hotblack Desiato (who is spending a year dead for tax reasons) and his bodyguard[4] and they meet the meat, the dish of the day[5], as well as seeing the host of the evening, Max Quordlepleen, just before the Great Prophet Zarquon[6] has his Second Coming, as well as other mentions like the Asgoths of Kria[7] - and in fact the Gods of Valhalla are present at the End of the Universe.

Then we have the Golgafrinchams, though other than the Captain and the top 3 ranked staff, they're not really given names. Arthur and Ford do meet up with a couple of them but I don't seem to recall whether they have names. Then there's Hactar the Computer who has to build an Ultimate Bomb and ends up tricking the Krikkits into xenocidal war. Meanwhile, there is Prak who speaks The Whole Truth And Nothing But The Truth, Zarniwoop[8], the Starship Titantic, or there's Judiciary Pag[9] who ruled on the fate of the Krikkits after the war, or Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged.[10]

Then we have Fenchurch... Fenny... who was sat in a cafe in Rickmansworth and knew how to make everything good and right and no-one would have to be nailed to anything... who also learns to fly. And if we're staying canonical, we also have Random "Frequent Flyer" Dent[11]

Oh, there's plenty of options ;) There's even, IIRC, Zim the mattress from Squorncellos (sp?) Zeta. And how could I forget the mad, fat, scruffy bat, Agrajag? (As voiced by Adams himself in the radio show)
Quote
Apart from the 5th book which I hate with a passion (I never got around to reading the recent 6th one), I loved them all, especially the first and fourth...
Adams himself wasn't happy with the fifth book. It wasn't where he wanted to end the series. Oddly enough I loved those two books too ;) Oh, and don't read 'And Another Thing'. Even the first page reads like fan fiction rather than a proper H2G2 book. Eoin Colfer is not the man for that job - don't get me wrong, I thought Artemis Fowl was very clever but Colfer doesn't have the right kind of imagination for H2G2. Jasper Fforde on the other hand... easily has.[12]
Quote
My other favorite books aren't exactly filled with easy-to-remember names, though... La Horde du Contrevent, Gloriana, What Mad Universe!, maybe Riverworld though..? It has many historical characters in it...

Anyway.
Yeah, I haven't heard of those. The other fantasy that might work, though... is Discworld. No shortage of characters there.
Quote
Asgard
Baldr/Baldur/Balder
C...Crap, Can't Conceive of one starting with C... :^^;:
Okay, let's just forget this one, I guess...
Hmm.
Posted: May 28th, 2013, 03:23 PM

Think I know H2G2 a little too well? :lol:
 1. He meets his great grandfather, Zaphod Beeblebrox the Fourth, while on the Heart of Gold
 2. A distant descendant of Genghis Khan
 3. Yes, I remember them more than I remember the programmers themselves, and "I demand that I may or may not be Vroomfondel"
 4. Played by David "Darth Vader" Prowse in the BBC TV series
 5. Played by the Fifth Doctor, uncredited, in the BBC TV series
 6. Whose name is frequently invoked as an oath
 7. And their poetmaster, Grunthos the Flatulent, whose poetry is in fact the second worst in the universe
 8. Who wants to meet the man really responsible for running the universe, who sits inside a shed with his cat "The Lord"
 9. aka Zip Bibrok 5x10^8
 10. "Dent, Arthur Philip? You're a jerk, Dent, a complete asshole."
 11. Trillian and Arthur's daughter
 12. If you haven't come across Fforde... find "The Eyre Affair" and "Lost in a Good Book"
Title: Re: Not using version numbers as such
Post by: Farjo on May 29th, 2013, 05:00 AM
How will you organise the giving of names i.e. will every group of versions begin with the same letter, or will it be random?
e.g. v1.0 Aaron, v1.0.1 Andrew, v1.1 Brian, v1.2 Charlie. Will they be alphabetical within versions i.e. Aaron before Andrew.

Mythical figures, old gods, sci-fi references, plantes, stars have all been done to death - just ask any administrator what their servers are named! How about place names? Loads of towns and villages in UK and France on their own, so you'd never run out.

But overall a good idea worth trying.
Title: Re: Not using version numbers as such
Post by: colby67 on May 29th, 2013, 07:51 AM
If the names are just meant to distinguish versions from each other, the easiest solution would be to just give them whole numbers, rather than 2-3 decimals.

But, of course, custom names are fun as well. :D
Title: Re: Not using version numbers as such
Post by: darkknight89 on June 7th, 2013, 06:32 PM
I'm a little late to the party here but for me names are easier to remember than version numbers.  I remember what version OS X and Ubuntu are on only going by the actual names they give them.  Couldn't tell ya what the heck version number Ubuntu is on right now.
Title: Re: Not using version numbers as such
Post by: Auk on June 17th, 2013, 07:01 PM
How about by different types of wood(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_woods), trees/plants or cutting tool?
Title: Re: Not using version numbers as such
Post by: Nao on June 17th, 2013, 07:34 PM
Well, I think for now, we have enough trouble deciding whether the first release with be called 1.0 or 0.1, so, whatever... :lol:
Title: Re: Not using version numbers as such
Post by: xrunner on June 18th, 2013, 01:34 AM
Quote from Nao on June 17th, 2013, 07:34 PM
Well, I think for now, we have enough trouble deciding whether the first release with be called 1.0 or 0.1, so, whatever... :lol:
DON'T WORRY! We're all here to help with this predicament. :console:

My advice is to remain calm.