Print Page - Wap is that?

Public area => The Pub => Topic started by: Nao on February 10th, 2012, 07:16 PM

Title: Wap is that?
Post by: Nao on February 10th, 2012, 07:16 PM

As we recently discussed, Pete and I -- we're considering removing Wap2 support from Wedge.
I already removed iMode and Wap1, and improved Wap2 a (tiny) bit by giving it more styles.

However, there are still issues with this:
- it's really a limited subset of a SMF/Wedge forum... Basically, you can only view posts and PMs, and answer them.
- Google might still crawl your mobile page and offer links to them instead of your desktop site, even on its regular version. Wedge improved that, but it's still not completely flawless.

The main advantages of Wap2 are:
- it's definitely faster than a regular page. The only other way to quickly view an entire topic is the Print link. (Which is arguably much better at that task.)
- it works on very old non-smart mobile phones. Like mine. But basically, the main point is that people who actually browse the web with their phone have LONG since purchased an iPhone or similar.

So we think it could go, but we're just not sure. It's time for Wap2 to speak, or you shall remain silent forever! :geek:

Title: Re: Wap is that?
Post by: godboko71 on February 10th, 2012, 07:30 PM

I say let it die, any time spent improving it could be spent making a bare theme (which your already working on) that would be "faster" for html phones but still be full featured which wap2 is far from being.

Title: Re: Wap is that?
Post by: Nao on February 10th, 2012, 07:47 PM

It's not particularly that it requires work... It's just that the entire wireless framework works as an 'exception' to many rules in the SMF codebase, so it has 53 places where it changes the default behavior etc, and I'd personally feel better if we could just remove them. (Plus, the index.wireless.css file... Which itself is sort of an exception to my skin system.)

Title: Re: Wap is that?
Post by: Dr. Deejay on February 10th, 2012, 08:07 PM

I agree with godboko71. In my opinion it would be a perfect feature to put in a plugin, but I wouldn't see it be useful as a core feature. Most of the forum owners don't even know there is a wap2 function. But that are just my 2 cents

Title: Re: Wap is that?
Post by: MultiformeIngegno on February 10th, 2012, 08:29 PM

I'd say 'remove it' if you include the Dragooon's mobile theme..

Title: Re: Wap is that?
Post by: Dragooon on February 11th, 2012, 06:56 AM

Quote from MultiformeIngegno on February 10th, 2012, 08:29 PM

I'd say 'remove it' if you include the Dragooon's mobile theme..

My theme was never intended to replace WAP layout, it's not meant for those phones and would probably look horrible. never tried, so not too sure.

Title: Re: Wap is that?
Post by: MultiformeIngegno on February 11th, 2012, 12:29 PM

Quote from Dragooon on February 11th, 2012, 06:56 AM

Quote from MultiformeIngegno on February 10th, 2012, 08:29 PM
I'd say 'remove it' if you include the Dragooon's mobile theme..
My theme was never intended to replace WAP layout, it's not meant for those phones and would probably look horrible. never tried, so not too sure.

I use WAP2 also with my iPhone.. it loads pages instantly! :)

Title: Re: Wap is that?
Post by: Dragooon on February 11th, 2012, 12:42 PM

Quote from MultiformeIngegno on February 11th, 2012, 12:29 PM

Quote from Dragooon on February 11th, 2012, 06:56 AM
Quote from MultiformeIngegno on February 10th, 2012, 08:29 PM
I'd say 'remove it' if you include the Dragooon's mobile theme..
My theme was never intended to replace WAP layout, it's not meant for those phones and would probably look horrible. never tried, so not too sure.
I use WAP2 also with my iPhone.. it loads pages instantly! :)

That's....not what I meant. The phones for which WAP2 is designed are not meant to support HTML5/CSS3 used my SMF4Mobile and will not look good.

Title: Re: Wap is that?
Post by: Nao on February 11th, 2012, 01:13 PM

@Lorenzo> But you didn't vote ;)

As for Dragooon's theme, again: it's a beautiful theme and everything, but Wedge is built with responsive designs in mind. It's not exactly 'good' yet, but I'll get to it. From the moment you decide to use responsive design, you WILL get more bandwidth use, so it's just not as good, but of course anyone can create a barebones theme without any JavaScript, and with limited links (i.e. suppress the main menu and just add a few links to whatever you want to support.) The point is that it's not going to be a Wap2 theme (because only proper support for the WIRELESS constant would allow that), so it won't be readable on Wap-only phones, but it'll still be just as fast on any smartphone as the current Wireless template.

So, basically, what I'm suggesting is to remove the WIRELESS constant entirely, i.e. support for Wap2-only phones, but it's really up to themers (or myself, much later) to make limited and lightweight themes available.

Well, as it turns out, the poll is currently in favor of removing support, so I'm looking forward to it eheh. But even a single vote against would make me think twice about it. I'll be waiting until at least 20 positives votes and 0 negative votes are cast.

Title: Re: Wap is that?
Post by: Arantor on February 11th, 2012, 02:53 PM

Thing is, WAP2 vs even something like Dragooon's theme, WAP2 is going to win in terms of bandwidth, and I would even argue it has the edge in terms of performance because you just don't have the elements loaded in the first place, hidden or otherwise, so it cannot be anything but faster.

That said, it might be viable to convert WAP2 into a plugin for those who really want it.

Title: Re: Wap is that?
Post by: Nao on February 11th, 2012, 04:49 PM

What I'm most excited to do is remove the WIRELESS tests. If we're moving that to a plugin, we might as well keep WIRELESS in, because otherwise the plugins will have to ask for us to put hooks into the same places, which will waste even more time... :-/

Nah, I'm sure I can easily cook up a quick small theme based on Wireless.template.php, only with HTML tags instead of Mobile XHTML.

Title: Re: Wap is that?
Post by: Arantor on February 11th, 2012, 05:10 PM

That's the thing, though, most of the logic is simply around setting up different layers for wireless vs normal, nothing more. There's a few where it makes a difference to the actual logic (e.g. preferences for number of posts per page) but most of that can be accommodated separately.

I dunno, I might give it a try later on and see how successful it ends up being, especially since a lot of the places already have hooks that can be suitably utilised.

Title: Re: Wap is that?
Post by: Norodo on February 11th, 2012, 06:11 PM

Rip it out. Even the Nokia N-Gage (2003) supports HTML with the built-in browser. And almost every mobile phone with MIDP support can run Opera Mini. This includes the Nokia 3510i from 2002. Ten years ago. It's time to retire XHTML-MP.

Title: Re: Wap is that?
Post by: Arantor on February 11th, 2012, 06:18 PM

Eh, my old Nokia 3330 didn't support much beyond XHTML-MP, but if it supports XHTML-MP, it supports enough to be usable...

Title: Re: Wap is that?
Post by: Norodo on February 11th, 2012, 06:26 PM

The 3330 is 11 years old or so. I know Nokias are known for their durability but there is a limit to how long one will hold on to even a marvel like the 3330. Maybe there is one in use here and there, but I REALLY doubt the 3330s still in use are used to browse the web. IIRC they do not even support GPRS.

Title: Re: Wap is that?
Post by: Arantor on February 11th, 2012, 06:33 PM

I bought mine in 2002 and only retired it last year after hardware failure ;)

Title: Re: Wap is that?
Post by: Norodo on February 11th, 2012, 10:13 PM

Anecdotal, and even if it was a valid argument, you'd have to have used that phone for browsing for it to matter, and you would still have to use it. ;)

Title: Re: Wap is that?
Post by: and on February 11th, 2012, 10:14 PM

voted for

Quote

Who cares about Wap?! It's so 2005! Remove it!

because

Quote

I rarely, if ever, use it. My phone supports HTML and I happily browse the web normally.

but I mainly use imode
I will be glad if the wedge is the simplified version will support pages
the so-called version for handheld (pda)
I am using nokia (S^3) and ucweb browser

Title: Re: Wap is that?
Post by: Nao on February 11th, 2012, 10:23 PM

Quote from and on February 11th, 2012, 10:14 PM

but I mainly use imode

I'm afraid we removed it from Wedge over a year ago... :^^;:

Quote

I will be glad if the wedge is the simplified version will support pages
the so-called version for handheld (pda)
I am using nokia (S^3) and ucweb browser

Have no idea what it supports...
If it supports HTML, then you're fine. Obviously.

I have a PDA in a box somewhere, which I got 6 years ago in exchange for a Nintendo DS or something, don't remember what... Well, never managed to even go online (wifi) with it. It just didn't comply with my requests, uh. Too bad, it had a 480x640 screen and everything.

Title: Re: Wap is that?
Post by: and on February 11th, 2012, 10:50 PM

Quote from Nao on February 11th, 2012, 10:23 PM

I'm afraid we removed it from Wedge over a year ago... :^^;:

Have no idea what it supports...
If it supports HTML, then you're fine. Obviously.

I have a PDA in a box somewhere, which I got 6 years ago in exchange for a Nintendo DS or something, don't remember what... Well, never managed to even go online (wifi) with it. It just didn't comply with my requests, uh. Too bad, it had a 480x640 screen and everything.

generally correct, I like that it does not upset

but maintains

something like

at the last screenshot, a small bug ............
messages through one have a black background

Title: Re: Wap is that?
Post by: Nao on February 11th, 2012, 10:59 PM

Well... It's Wedge.org. It's running SMF, not Wedge. What exactly are you trying to say...? That your phone doesn't like HTML?

Title: Re: Wap is that?
Post by: and on February 11th, 2012, 11:20 PM

Well .........
yes it is on the smf, as it looks on the screen with low resolution, I have not seen, especially for the wedge, :( for some reason ............

:whistle: I want to say?

If the wedge will look the same, or better, or will be adapted for touchscreen interface, I'll be happy :cool:

Title: Re: Wap is that?
Post by: Norodo on February 11th, 2012, 11:34 PM

Quote from Nao on February 11th, 2012, 10:59 PM

Well... It's Wedge.org. It's running SMF, not Wedge. What exactly are you trying to say...? That your phone doesn't like HTML?

UC Browser definitely supports HTML. Hell it even supports HTML5.

Title: Re: Wap is that?
Post by: Nao on February 12th, 2012, 11:54 PM

I think 15 votes is enough. I'll try to get started and remove the feature tomorrow. :)
(As always, everything in a single commit, so that we can easily revert if ever needed.)

Title: Re: Wap is that?
Post by: Nao on February 14th, 2012, 06:06 PM

Started work on this. This should be completed soon. I'm just making sure I'm removing everything that's only relevant to wireless mode...

Posted: February 14th, 2012, 11:44 AM

(Done, BTW!)

Title: Re: Wap is that?
Post by: Norodo on February 25th, 2012, 04:44 AM

In related news, in Norway, a country of 5 million, around 200 people use WAP.

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/Telenor-og-Netcom-lagrer-likevel-kunders-nettsurfing-6770394.html#.T0hYlW1TFok

Also: Our biggest provider is shutting down WAP access.

Title: Re: Wap is that?
Post by: live627 on February 25th, 2012, 07:50 AM

Is that WAP or WAP2?

Title: Re: Wap is that?
Post by: MultiformeIngegno on February 25th, 2012, 09:24 AM

I always read on reports that Norway and Denmark are soooo advanced in technologies and infrastructures. that they have Internet at 1000000000 terabits and then they use wap?? XD

Title: Re: Wap is that?
Post by: Arantor on February 25th, 2012, 01:31 PM

I'd suspect that's primarily WAP they're talking about.

Quote from MultiformeIngegno on February 25th, 2012, 09:24 AM

I always read on reports that Norway and Denmark are soooo advanced in technologies and infrastructures. that they have Internet at 1000000000 terabits and then they use wap?? XD

200 out of 5000000 people use it. In any population there are those who steadfastly refuse to move forwards.

Title: Re: Wap is that?
Post by: MultiformeIngegno on February 25th, 2012, 03:54 PM

I know I was joking, 200 out of 5 millions is nothing ;)

Title: Re: Wap is that?
Post by: Norodo on February 25th, 2012, 05:36 PM

Quote from Arantor on February 25th, 2012, 01:31 PM

I'd suspect that's primarily WAP they're talking about.

Yeah this is WAP, not XHTML MP. It still tells a story. ;)

Title: Re: Wap is that?
Post by: Nao on February 25th, 2012, 05:48 PM

A few years ago, Wap was already next to nothing compared to Wap2.
But still, I'm not re-introducing Wap2 support anytime soon... :P