Print Page - Jump box and its stupid Go button

Public area => The Pub => Topic started by: Nao on July 16th, 2011, 05:22 PM

Title: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: Nao on July 16th, 2011, 05:22 PM

Pete isn't the only one who gets to remove features from SMF :P
I'm currently reworking the board jump box code.

Here are two things that I've been starting to rewrite, and then figured I'd ask for opinions before committing them.

1/ I'm rewriting URLs (through Pretty URLs) before showing the board list. This allows users to jump directly to said board using its official URL, rather than see a "?board=1.0" in the URL.

Pros: well, concealing board= URLs is always nice.
Cons: the XML file you request through Ajax is a bit bigger, obviously. (Only if Pretty URLs are enabled. Otherwise it's the same.)

An alternative way of doing it, would be to have Wedge redirect to the proper board as soon as it gets an URL with '?board=' in it. Actually I thought it already did that, but apparently not... Probably due to my internal rewrite where it no longer relies on htaccess. Of course it requires an extra roundtrip to the server...

Opinions plz?

2/ I want to get rid of that stupid 'OK' button. The only (only!) point of this button is to allow you to jump directly to the current board's homepage. Thing is -- topic pages already have a link to said board, in the linktree. There's a copy at the bottom, right above the jump box... Once you click the select box, simply selecting another board will load it directly. The Go button can... go. A simple rewrite would be to have the jump box say: "Jump to: [Select board]". Then you click the "Select board" and it opens up a list of boards. The default selected board will be changed to the current one. Problem fixed, and better usability without that button IMHO.

Again: opinions plzkthx?

Thanks :)

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: spoogs on July 16th, 2011, 05:39 PM

1. Never used or cared about 'Pretty URLs' related things so can't comment on that

2. Agreed the Go button can/should go

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: Arantor on July 16th, 2011, 06:22 PM

1. Go for it. It does have the use whereby you can find the board id for debugging purposes but that's a minor case.

2. Accessibility pretty much dictates not using it like that. Firstly, non JS users will be without it, and speech readers nearly always work on moving down an item at a time, and often trigger onchange per change.

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: Nao on July 16th, 2011, 08:15 PM

Smf's jump box never worked without js to begin with. ;)

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: Arantor on July 16th, 2011, 08:23 PM

Oh, yeah, it doesn't even appear unless JS is enabled, does it?

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: Nao on July 16th, 2011, 08:59 PM

Yep... It's just an empty strip. (And yes, I'm considering removing the strip altogether. It works just as well as a small right-aligned text...)

You wouldn't believe the amount of crap this function has. I don't know who made it, but they were very, very careful in making it very customizable, with the ability to change indentation prefixes, etc... Eh? Who cares about that anyway? You would have to edit the template to change these... Might as well edit script.js and just change it there!
They also implemented the stuff in the search template, at the end of a search page. I never even noticed that...! Since it's utterly useless at that point, I just removed it from there. It's only in topic and board pages now.

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: Arantor on July 16th, 2011, 09:04 PM

Quote

Yep... It's just an empty strip. (And yes, I'm considering removing the strip altogether. It works just as well as a small right-aligned text...)

Yeah, please do remove it. It's ugly at the best of times.

Quote

I don't know who made it, but they were very, very careful in making it very customizable, with the ability to change indentation prefixes, etc... Eh? Who cares about that anyway?

As far as I know, no-one ever actually *used* that. I guess it might have been in the case of making the board list.

Out of interest, the core function that generates the board list (in Subs-Editor.php, IIRC), is that ever used anywhere else?

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: Nao on July 16th, 2011, 09:17 PM

Quote from Arantor on July 16th, 2011, 09:04 PM

Quote
Yep... It's just an empty strip. (And yes, I'm considering removing the strip altogether. It works just as well as a small right-aligned text...)
Yeah, please do remove it. It's ugly at the best of times.

Will do.

Quote

Out of interest, the core function that generates the board list (in Subs-Editor.php, IIRC), is that ever used anywhere else?

Yeah, in half a dozen places (move topic, etc.)

Nearly finished with my rewrite...
As of now, I managed to save nearly 300 bytes off the *gzipped* version. Even more in the non-gzipped. Reminds me of my fun days when converting everything to jQuery... :) (Well, I'm using jQuery here as well, but .html() could just as well be replaced with innerHTML...)

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: Nao on July 16th, 2011, 10:06 PM

BTW-- didn't remove the frame around the jump box in the end (display template). This is because I'm doing my tests on a relatively new local install, have only one topic, and as such don't get the prev/next links... Which is the 'only' point of said box.
Until I find a better design for this...

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: live627 on July 16th, 2011, 11:25 PM

So who sends the check?

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: Nao on July 16th, 2011, 11:34 PM

My imagination I'm afraid!

Must be crazy, having spent a work sabotaging my personal health on a project I've always known will bring me only problems..... :^^;:

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: [Unknown] on July 18th, 2011, 03:08 AM

Heh, I remember when I removed the go button. A bunch of people complained. Turned out a lot of people, including Ben_S, used it when they finished reading a topic to go back to the list. A strange use, I thought, but that's why it was left in.

-[Unknown]

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: Nao on July 18th, 2011, 10:14 AM

Rather than leave the button in, you could have told them to use the linktree ;) It's just two lines above said button. If people don't use it, then why bother reproduce the linktree at the bottom :)
Another way in Wedge is, of course, to just click the board list and choose the greened-out (?) board in the list. Only works if you don't have a lot of boards, though... (Otherwise it'll take hours just to find it.)
Actually, I think the quick access (ex-jump to) box will eventually only feature boards by the same creator as the current board. (In a 'normal' forum context, all boards are created by the same person, but in a blog platform context, you could end up with thousands of boards... Might as well reduce that list to current owner + general boards with no owner.)

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: [Unknown] on July 24th, 2011, 07:28 AM

Quote from Nao/Gilles on July 18th, 2011, 10:14 AM

you could have told them to use the linktree ;)

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: Nao on July 24th, 2011, 09:42 AM

Quote from [Unknown]link=msg=264514 date=1311485319][quote author=Nao/Gilles on July 18th, 2011, 10:14 AM

you could have told them to use the linktree ;)

Oh believe me, that's definitely the first thing I said. From hazy hazy memory, I think they preferred the style where there was no linktree at the bottom (used to be the default, the "linktree" style rather than the "breadcrumbs" style.) I'm not sure, that may no longer exist.

-[Unknown][/quote]In Wedge, the linktree is duplicated at the bottom in board & topic pages. And you can't delete it ;)
Wedge is a larger jump than SMF1->2 in terms of conceptual layout I guess, because of the sidebar and all, so I guess they'll have to 'get used to it'.
Heck, I *DID* manage to get used to Windows 7, after two years of rejecting it completely. Had to 'force' myself into using/customizing it for a month before I really started liking it... But now I'm (finally) starting to find some aspects of it that I find to be well thought out.

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: U Wish on August 15th, 2011, 05:10 AM

*whistles now this is a good fix..

i do like the jump, it works on most forum scripts, and yes should work better now..

linktree at the bottom isnt needed since there should be buttons in place (activated should be a fixed option, specially for n00b users that dont know to activate for ease of use) to go back to top. :hmm:

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: ['Daniel'] on August 15th, 2011, 05:29 AM

The go up and go down is going to be enabled by default, check the Finishe! board and you'll see a topic about it. Also were was some talk about the Jump to, to make it better, I can't recall exactly where you can find that topic though.
What do you mean buttons in place of the linktree at the bottom?

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: U Wish on August 15th, 2011, 06:14 AM

nuuu Dannbass!!!

the bottom linktree needs to go! no buttons in place either, since using the [go up] will be used.

keep things simple!

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: ['Daniel'] on August 15th, 2011, 06:18 AM

But I will take you 2 clicks to go to someplace then... if you have the linktree there you can go directly to where you want to go, instead of clicking on the Go Up and then someplace or to reply or mark unread or anything since the links for those things are there.

I think it's a matter of ease for the users, if everything is at the top and you want to reply and you're done reading, then you have go to the top, I'd be bothered if I have to do that all the time to reply.

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: U Wish on August 15th, 2011, 06:24 AM

is it not why there would be a jump to box that actually works?

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: ['Daniel'] on August 15th, 2011, 06:59 AM

Yes but the Jump to: is to go anywhere, the linktree is more straightforward. Say you want to go and read more topics at The Pub, would you use the Jump to to get there or the linktree? if you were reading this topic. I'd just use the linktree and if I'm done reading your message and I'm at the bottom of the page I wouldn't go back to the top and then click on The Pub link.

Of course that's a very quick thing to get ride in the Display.template.php.

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: Arantor on August 15th, 2011, 09:04 AM

They serve two totally different purposes and I really don't see us removing either.

The Jump To facility lets you move to a different board to the one you're in, not necessarily higher up the chain, while the linktree lets you move higher up the chain specifically - and I do a lot of navigating by the lower linktree.

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: ['Daniel'] on August 15th, 2011, 09:14 AM

That's what I was trying to say and couldn't find the right words!

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: Nao on August 15th, 2011, 09:37 AM

I never (EVER) used the Quick Access (previously Jump To) button for navigating. It just stands there and does nothing to do. I removed the Go button to at least save some space... But it still doesn't encourage me to use it.

I use the bottom linktree a lot. Probably more than the top one.
I don't use the Up/Down links much. On my desktop I can simply hit the Home/End buttons on my keyboard for the same effect (or just a small mouse movement on the scrollbar). On my iPod, the links are usually too small to be worth the time to click them, so I'll simply slide through the entire page manually...

PS: I've never liked how the Up/Down links actually change the URL in the address bar. This should be cancelled via JS if at all possible. Hmm adding this to to-do list.

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: U Wish on August 15th, 2011, 09:41 AM

idk nao, the breedable animal im working with atm is using (omg) dang drupal, and the up/down buttons on it are a bit better and i find me using them a ton more. there isnt a linktree either at the bottom of it, and with a compact site, sometimes keeping it small is a good thing

what would be good is ease of removing it if the [siteowner] can do so with ease of not screwing up coding around the linktree

idk here it is 3:40am gesh haha!

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: Nao on August 15th, 2011, 12:24 PM

Quote from U Wish on August 15th, 2011, 09:41 AM

idk nao, the breedable animal im working with atm is using (omg) dang drupal, and the up/down buttons on it are a bit better

Example of better usability please?

Quote

there isnt a linktree either at the bottom of it, and with a compact site, sometimes keeping it small is a good thing

You could always cancel the second one. There's a variable for that. (Heck, I could probably make it a setting but...)
How can you do that without editing the files? Hmm... I don't know, calling a hook registration function to add just a single line function that will delete the context variable... We could probably do that in an easier way... But it's definitely doable.

Quote

what would be good is ease of removing it if the [siteowner] can do so with ease of not screwing up coding around the linktree

Pete deleted the ability to disable the Up/Down links, and I guess we wouldn't want to give the ability to delete the second linktree just the same. That's because too many options kill the game for us. We want to provide options for things that really matter, things that would split a community otherwise.

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: U Wish on August 15th, 2011, 12:36 PM

my example of drupal*

this forum is being closed due to drama :sob:

http://www.worldofmeeroos.com/index.php?q=forum

and i say keep the go up and down buttons as permanent

Posted: August 15th, 2011, 12:35 PM

is why i missed my smf that drupal drove me nuts!!! :geek:

made me put my site up in less than 15 min. modded and themed after how long have i been gone?? :thanks: :angel:

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: Nao on August 15th, 2011, 12:40 PM

I'm sorry but their Up/Down links are both intrusive and ugly to me..? Also, the Down link actually doesn't work... :^^;:

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: U Wish on August 15th, 2011, 12:43 PM

i only use the go up :P

but yes functionality is badly needed, and you know you can make anything look good with color and images as long as the code can hold it up :niark:

*off topic
they need web devs.. read their blog

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: Nao on August 15th, 2011, 12:45 PM

I don't even know what this site is about...

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: U Wish on August 15th, 2011, 12:49 PM

virtual breedable animals that look like the main pic i uploaded to my other thread.

they go from 50L all the way up to 800USD on the secondary market Nao, but regardless they need mods devs and a themer so i may tinker with it, not sure yet. but its a lot of code that isnt like smf to eat, not sure if i am hungry enough. dont know the pay, but im sure if one has skills, one can tell a price instead of ask

http://www.worldofmeeroos.com/index.php?q=node/3873

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: Arantor on August 15th, 2011, 12:55 PM

Quote

and i say keep the go up and down buttons as permanent

That was my take on it too; it's sufficiently useful to leave in all the time to quickly go up and down the page and IMO too many people were asking how to turn it on, on sm.org; if it's that unobvious it either needs to be made more prominent or simply on by default - I just too it one step further.

Quote

I'm sorry but their Up/Down links are both intrusive and ugly to me..?

The go up link isn't too bad, it's not too big and it's tucked out of the way IMO but the 'last post' / down button is far too big and it doesn't fit with the rest of the stuff that it's around.

Quote

but im sure if one has skills, one can tell a price instead of ask

That's the thing with Drupal. You can do a fantastic amount with it but coding it is less like a hobby and more like a vocation, you really have to want to get to know it to achieve anything with any real complexity. (I doubt you could implement Aeva or SimpleDesk in the same volume of code as they currently exist for SMF, but to be fair Drupal isn't designed to be a forum, but a massively extensible CMS.)

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: U Wish on August 15th, 2011, 12:58 PM

too totally true Arantor and I don't feel a drupal calling :cool:

even tho most there are friends, it's jsut not simple enough for me, now images, I can turn out by the dozens, poses and animations not a issue, color changes, no biggie there too, but i jsut don't feel like an all day event with drupal :^^;:

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: Arantor on August 15th, 2011, 01:01 PM

Quote

but i jsut don't feel like an all day event with drupal

That's the thing. Virtually every mod I did for SMF (with the exception of SimpleDesk, naturally), took under a day to write, even the very earliest ones where I was still getting to know the code - I doubt you could say the same of Drupal.[1]

1.	You definitely can't say the same for MediaWiki. Jesus what a mindfuck trying to write parser extensions for MW is.

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: U Wish on August 15th, 2011, 01:03 PM

the story of the site was that they needed something for closed beta, they didnt get around to changing it out in favor of another site type. thing is if they knew of drupal, why not smf? *scratches head. :whistle:

Posted: August 15th, 2011, 01:02 PM

i think that due to the mods for pix and vids *grins at nao
and knowing what you all are cooking up now, makes me want this project to go very very far.

this is whats needed a good solid platform for communication with the ability and ease for image and vid sharing.

something that say in 5 years could go 3d as that is the future, i see it every day.

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: Arantor on August 15th, 2011, 01:04 PM

Well, it depends how much other stuff they were planning to use. SMF isn't exactly blessed with CMS type stuff - sure, the portals can expand it reasonably well but for any large scale CMS stuff, they're not really up to the job.

Looking briefly at the site I'd also speculate that they were after something considered 'stable' which at the time, SMF 2 wasn't (and most of the better CMS stuff is available for SMF 2 only anyway), and that it wasn't at risk of drama and/or implosion.

Quote

and knowing what you all are cooking up now, makes me want this project to go very very far.

We think it has the potential, certainly :)

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: U Wish on August 15th, 2011, 01:05 PM

grins :niark:

i understand all too well Arantor :blush:

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: dazed on August 15th, 2011, 03:47 PM

Quote from Arantor on August 15th, 2011, 09:04 AM

They serve two totally different purposes and I really don't see us removing either.

The Jump To facility lets you move to a different board to the one you're in, not necessarily higher up the chain, while the linktree lets you move higher up the chain specifically - and I do a lot of navigating by the lower linktree.

Agree.

I once installed a theme that didn't have the linktree at the bottom, and had 100 PM's in 4 hours. Never realized how many people actually used it.

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: Arantor on August 15th, 2011, 03:50 PM

It's because you're at the bottom of a thread and want to go back to the previous page and for most people that's going to be nearer than pressing the back button.

(Unless like me they have a mouse with a back button just by the thumb ;))

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: Nightwish on August 15th, 2011, 06:21 PM

Quote from dazed on August 15th, 2011, 03:47 PM

I once installed a theme that didn't have the linktree at the bottom, and had 100 PM's in 4 hours. Never realized how many people actually used it.

I would hate a theme without a LT at the bottom. Wouldn't miss a jumpbox though...

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: Arantor on August 16th, 2011, 04:53 PM

*nods* I don't see us removing either but if we had to choose, I'd remove the jump box long before I'd remove the lower linktree.

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: Nao on August 16th, 2011, 04:58 PM

I think we all agree on that :)

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: U Wish on August 16th, 2011, 05:01 PM

nods scratches only 2 brain cells left and slowly goes back to laying code for a site while shuddering :whistle: :niark:

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: Arantor on August 16th, 2011, 05:03 PM

Quote

nods scratches only 2 brain cells left

That might be 1 more than me ;)

Quote

laying code for a site while shuddering

Ah, you're still getting to grips with Drupal. You know you've gotten part the 'getting to grips' stage when you stop shuddering during the day and only have to cope with waking up at night screaming.

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: U Wish on August 16th, 2011, 05:32 PM

hahaha i bet you got more hair than i am legally allowed to have too Arantor!! :lol: :angel:

i hate it i hate it lol.. but it is a walk in the park and a bit different is all good, i wont go cliff divin just yet :thanks:

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: Nao on August 16th, 2011, 07:00 PM

So true, Pete :lol:

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: Arantor on August 26th, 2011, 06:38 PM

In other news.

I swear I mentioned this somewhere else, actually, that there's a problem with the jumpto box not operating as expected (even if it does actually function) on touch devices, on the basis of the onclick not issuing a blur.

Well, it seems that someone else has pointed out the same bug in SMF - http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=450285.0

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: Senalaya on August 27th, 2011, 03:21 PM

I've never really used the jump box myself. To navigate, I usually rely on the linktree and the browser's back and forward buttons.
Having the linktree at the top and repeated at the bottom is a nice touch.

However, looking at the current implementation here, I'd definitly remove the moderator listing from the linktree and either place that in it's own line below or skip it completely.

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: Arantor on August 27th, 2011, 06:14 PM

Um, what's here is what SMF itself does... This site does not yet run Wedge.

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: Nao on August 27th, 2011, 07:59 PM

This was discussed here:
/up/6570/demo-reports/120/

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: live627 on August 28th, 2011, 12:19 AM

Nao, remember that link goes to the private area. This is public.

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: Nao on August 28th, 2011, 12:47 AM

Ah, yes indeed... Thanks.

Well, I'm removing the link as such, so that Google doesn't bother with it, but I don't mind that users attempt to follow it and find they're locked out of it... Doesn't mean they'll be locked forever, i.e. maybe eventually all of the dev topics will be made public....

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: U Wish on August 28th, 2011, 01:25 AM

that could be a beautiful thing nao.. provided someone did want to link follow :cool: :lol:

im still hanging around.. playing with fingers and toes and... :hmm: :^^;:

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: Nao on December 15th, 2011, 01:48 PM

Okay, so... I've been rewriting the jumpto code to use the new select box.
It struck me as odd that <optgroup> tags weren't being used for categories, as would be customary when trying to show two different types (categories and boards).

Of course, the reason it was done this way was for categories to be a valid target, because you can't select an optgroup, only an option.

So, I did my little rewrite with optgroups, and it just feels more natural to me, but I can't commit it without asking for opinions around here. I know the quick board access selector isn't used by a lot of people, so... to those who actually use it at least once a year:

- did you ever click a category instead of a different board? do you prefer to use the quick access to jump to the current category, or to simply click the category name in the bread crumb?

- do you think maybe I should add support for optgroup values, i.e. <optgroup value="http://website/category/" label="This is a group">? This totally wouldn't validate, but it'd only be done through JS. I don't like this solution though...

- do you like the jump box just the way it is, and are okay with the script.js file being a few dozen bytes larger to keep that...?

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: Arantor on December 15th, 2011, 05:53 PM

I have no idea why categories were a valid target since you couldn't really go to them before. Now, of course, you can go to a category on its own page and make some sense of it, so it strikes me that it would be viable to be a target. That said, it would be more logical as an optgroup and if you want to go up to the category you probably wouldn't use it anyway, so go nuts.

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: Nao on December 15th, 2011, 06:23 PM

Categories have always been selectable from the jumpto box... At least AFAIK. Of course, in SMF it's always the board index with an anchor, so it's doesn't matter... In Wedge it's a little different, though.

I'll go for optgroup now, if no one is bothered by this.

BTW, the server issues at wedge.org are documented here:
http://status.alwaysdata.com/operation/17/

I'm afraid it's going to last for a bit more, but at least "they're on it"... To each their bugs ;)

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: U Wish on December 15th, 2011, 06:53 PM

I am just tickled you are tinkering with this!!

and yes I am still lurking~ :whistle:

Title: Re: Jump box and its stupid Go button
Post by: godboko71 on December 16th, 2011, 12:52 AM

Never use the cats in the select box, so all good here.