Wedge
Public area => The Pub => Topic started by: Drunken Clam on April 12th, 2011, 09:41 AM
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So, after running my forum for getting on for 12 years, (it started on Wildcat!, then YaBB and has progressed through to SMF 2), I have now closed it, much to the displeasure of my members!
I just got so sick and tired; so sick and tired of all the bitching that has gone on at sm.org over the years. Waiting, (years!), for them to be innovative, to release a product that stood out, miles over all the competition, alas it was not to be. Until Arantor and Nao got together months ago to begin work on Wedge. What a breath of fresh air!
I have been following it's progress, as far as public viewing goes, on arantor.org, noisen.com, bryandeakin.com etc., since it's inception and can honestly say I am REALLY looking forward to its release!
I do intend starting a totally new forum and this forum will be with Wedge.
I have a question though.
I know Wedge cannot be released until SMF becomes an NPO and they release their 'Gold' version, but I have limited knowledge of the licensing issues etc.
So my question is this: During the transfer of SMF to an NPO, which seems to be taking an eternity, and the change of licence making it 'forkable', what is to stop them making further changes to the licence at changeover which would prevent it being forked?? (I really don't trust them!) What would happen to Wedge then??
As I said, my knowledge of licensing is limited so the above question(s) may be total bullshit and make me look a complete wanker!
It may also have been answered somewhere before, but I'm buggered if I can find it! I go to bed at night, wake up in the morning, and there have been a gazzilion posts to catch up on! (and that's just Arantor! ;) )
Ok, that's it.
As an aside, Nao, I have to commend you on your command of the English language, for a Frenchman, you put many of the English speakers postings on sm.org and elsewhere to shame!
Well done both, thanks and keep up the good work!
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Hi!
So, after running my forum for getting on for 12 years, (it started on Wildcat!, then YaBB and has progressed through to SMF 2), I have now closed it, much to the displeasure of my members!
I just got so sick and tired; so sick and tired of all the bitching that has gone on at sm.org over the years.
Waiting, (years!), for them to be innovative, to release a product that stood out, miles over all the competition, alas it was not to be. Until Arantor and Nao got together months ago to begin work on Wedge. What a breath of fresh air!
I know Wedge cannot be released until SMF becomes an NPO and they release their 'Gold' version, but I have limited knowledge of the licensing issues etc.
So my question is this: During the transfer of SMF to an NPO, which seems to be taking an eternity, and the change of licence making it 'forkable', what is to stop them making further changes to the licence at changeover which would prevent it being forked?? (I really don't trust them!) What would happen to Wedge then??
It may also have been answered somewhere before, but I'm buggered if I can find it! I go to bed at night, wake up in the morning, and there have been a gazzilion posts to catch up on! (and that's just Arantor! ;) )
As an aside, Nao, I have to commend you on your command of the English language, for a Frenchman, you put many of the English speakers postings on sm.org and elsewhere to shame!
Well done both, thanks and keep up the good work!
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Welcome Drunken Clan! :)
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Is there more of me now?..... :hmm:
Thanks for the welcome! ;)
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So, after running my forum for getting on for 12 years, (it started on Wildcat!, then YaBB and has progressed through to SMF 2), I have now closed it, much to the displeasure of my members!
I just got so sick and tired; so sick and tired of all the bitching that has gone on at sm.org over the years.
I'm sure many of them will return once I reopen with Wedge, it will still be un-politically correct, but will be open to anyone, not just ex Navy types. I'm currently searching for a suitable domain name. :niark:I know Wedge cannot be released until SMF becomes an NPO and they release their 'Gold' version, but I have limited knowledge of the licensing issues etc.
So my question is this: During the transfer of SMF to an NPO, which seems to be taking an eternity, and the change of licence making it 'forkable', what is to stop them making further changes to the licence at changeover which would prevent it being forked?? (I really don't trust them!) What would happen to Wedge then??
It may also have been answered somewhere before, but I'm buggered if I can find it! I go to bed at night, wake up in the morning, and there have been a gazzilion posts to catch up on! (and that's just Arantor! ;) )
As an aside, Nao, I have to commend you on your command of the English language, for a Frenchman, you put many of the English speakers postings on sm.org and elsewhere to shame!
Well done both, thanks and keep up the good work!
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Pete is busy on SimpleDesk these days, to be specific. And since he doesn't have plans to have it in Wedge by default, I don't consider this as WedgeWork :niark:
Being fluent in Japanese is easy: watch Japanese cartoons as a kid, and read about them (in my days, we didn't have the Interwebs to play with.) The sooner you learn a language, the easier it is to master it. I picked up Japanese at age 16 from reading books and such, and never quite got the hang of it. Enough to spend a few years as a professional manga translator, but it really was never my cup of tea. I never even set foot in Japan... And wouldn't!
I learned English at school at age 9 and never lost it. Although I never got the accent either. If you ever get to hear me do my job -- I'm like a talking cliché of a mime complete with beret and baguette. Well, except that you'd rather the mime not speak at all, in this case.
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Apparently all that is holding up the license (if what is on sm.org is true) is one signature by one guy who's in the middle of a move. Not sure how a move holds up signing a piece of paper and mailing it on, but one would think that could be resolved in a short period of time.
At this point, I feel the mod community over there is in a holding pattern waiting for the imminent 2.0. Not many mods are being updated at this point and discussion has pretty much stalled except for the people who still haven't found the emulate option for installing mods that aren't up to the latest version spec. I'm at the point where I need to upgrade to fix some specific mods, but one pivotal mod (option to replace inline images with links) seemed to magically stop somewhere between RC3 and RC4, so I'm stalled. It's frustrating.
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one signature by one guy who's in the middle of a move. Not sure how a move holds up signing a piece of paper and mailing it on, but one would think that could be resolved in a short period of time.
Now, I remember the last time I moved house, and that was a mess for months with bureaucracy, so I can well believe the delay.
As for the mod community, yes, it is in mostly a holding pattern, on the basis that mods for RC3 don't really need much work for RC4+ normally.
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Hmm. Derek was never one of the easiest people to get hold of, and from what little I did see of him, he was pretty pro 'the establishment'.
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He's also one of the three LLC members. Thus his signature is needed, and there's been a hint that it also requires resignation from the LLC in the process...
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<sigh>
If only they just went through the license change without actually waiting for the LLC->NPO transfer... There's really nothing preventing it.
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Except the legal ownership of it by the LLC; there's no reason for the LLC itself to make the change. It's complicated and messy and I'm too tired right now to go into the details but the phrase "over someone's dead body" probably comes into it somewhere.
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Wasn't that "Over Wedge's body"? :P
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Not exactly, no :P
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I must have misheard!
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I think you did, yes :P
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Patience Nao, patience.
:)
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You know guys, it's amazing :whistle:
I have learned more here about the reason why we are waiting than I ever did on SMF.org just cannot understand why it has to be such a big secret there?
Bob
(future wedge user :cool: )
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I have learned more here about the reason why we are waiting than I ever did on SMF.org just cannot understand why it has to be such a big secret there?
There is also a value of honesty with your community, as I think people are beginning to realise: the more people are brushed off, the more people are going to just shrug and move on, on the logic that if no-one wants to admit there's a problem, there MUST be a problem.
I'm curious to see if/when 2.0 makes it out, and what will happen after since I've already told Kindred that I suspect a lot of people will be disappointed with 2.0 final, and why, and the only way to fix that is a 2.1 that adds things people really want - and I just can't see that happening.
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It should be pointed out that the latest news is that everyone on the smf team has now signed the document, so they could potentially release tomorrow if they wanted. We are ready... To wait more ;)
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Well, I don't know how much time is involved finalising it now everyone's signed it but I would tend to agree that the release timeframe is no longer held up by legalities, primarily. Now it's a case of resolving - or 'accepting' - the bugs in 2.0 and fixing them.
I would expect a few more weeks minimum.
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+1
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...........the real countdown has started.
:eheh:
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It should be pointed out that the latest news is that everyone on the smf team has now signed the document, so they could potentially release tomorrow if they wanted. We are ready... To wait more ;)
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Buried in a Chit Chat thread is this: http://www.simplemachines.org/...c=430288.msg3024130#msg3024130(http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=430288.msg3024130#msg3024130)
"It's likely to be VERY soon, now.
As in "Days", if that."
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Thanks. :)
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It feels like SMF2's development was started only days ago, just the same...
2000 days, that is. ::)
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It feels like SMF2's development was started only days ago, just the same...
2000 days, that is. ::)
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2000 days is almost spot on, actually - 5.4 years since the founding of 2.0 in their SVN would be any day now ;)
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Why do you think I said 2000... I had my calculator™ in hand :eheh:
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I thought you were just using some big scary sounding number :P But yeah, that's reasonably depressing when you think about it.
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Even more depressing for the 'loyal' smf fans...
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Even more depressing for the 'loyal' smf fans...
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Even more depressing for the 'loyal' smf fans...
I simply meant for us, the general public who used to like smf, bored with the waiting, and probably will not be satisfied to see the release at all... ^_^
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and probably will not be satisfied to see the release at all...
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I know I'm not much of a php programmer, but when I first use smf back 2005, it was a very impressive software, feature packed yet allow the flexibility of doing some tinkering with it. Now 6 years later when I came back to use it again, what was once the leader of the pack (IMHO) now end up not getting anywhere...coming 2.0 final, I'm for sure will be one of the 'not impressed' people...
p/s: sorry for the rant...if i do it in sm.org i'm sure i'll be banned... :lol:
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It's far less bad than many of the things others have said, hell it's far less bad than some of the stuff I've said to them, and for some reason I'm not banned yet...
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It's far less bad than many of the things others have said, hell it's far less bad than some of the stuff I've said to them, and for some reason I'm not banned yet...
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Depends if it's just ranting/trolling for the sake of it, or there's a valid point to be made. You can be sure that if there's a valid point to be made, others will repost it on your behalf.
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It also depends on the way you say it. If you say "SMF is a piece of shit", you'll get a nice ban. But if you say something with an actual argument, it can be taken positively (or get a nice ban).
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It also depends on the way you say it. If you say "SMF is a piece of shit", you'll get a nice ban. But if you say something with an actual argument, it can be taken positively (or get a nice ban).
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That kind of implies we're not loyal. We were, once. Then we were shafted, and the fact that we chose SMF as a base rather than doing something from scratch should tell you something about our loyalty to the platform if not the project.
*Who* exactly in the SMF team spent the last 8 months doing nothing more than waiting for "the legal stuff to get sorted out"?
*We* weren't sure the legal stuff would get sorted out... Yet, we didn't let that stop us and we worked hard on Wedge.
Come to think of it, really, Wedge *is* SMF, or at least what it's supposed to be in 2011. What's called SMF2 is more of a running gag to me. It's a museum of 2005 techniques that were great at the time -- but irrelevant today.
I think we should all remember that SMF used to be run by first-grade programmers who spent an awful lot of time building a worthy platform. All of these developers have left since then -- many of them are our friends and they're excited about Wedge and what we're doing with it. I'm sure that's because they're extremely disappointed with what the "official" SMF team did with their hard work.
We're the unofficials. We fight in the shadow. We are Wedge. (Best said out loud with a raucous voice.)
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It's far less bad than many of the things others have said, hell it's far less bad than some of the stuff I've said to them, and for some reason I'm not banned yet...
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Oh, I don't know, I've really cut back my support lately, but it shows you something that even recently I've been at least as active as *multiple people combined* out of their support team.
There's enough people that can deal with the general stuff, but anything of complexity, they're going to be in deeper trouble when I stop posting, because I do have deeper knowledge than most of the team about SMF's innards.
I figure it is only a matter of time before I get banned, though.
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Out of your current behavior other there? As far as I know, were they to ban you, they'd get a very visible community backlash.
Whatever they feel/fear about Wedge, that's their problem, but you don't shoot the messenger.
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Oh, I don't know, I've really cut back my support lately, but it shows you something that even recently I've been at least as active as *multiple people combined* out of their support team.
(not to mention pending posts that still awaits approval frm the moderators)Out of your current behavior other there? As far as I know, were they to ban you, they'd get a very visible community backlash.
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Well, the fact that I've been deleting my posts is a fairly visible sign, and one that actually borders on violating the CLA.
That and the comments I've referred to privately about the inherent lack of respect the team has from former team members, over the 'core values' that are apparently sacred yet no better than toilet paper.
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Come on. You're giving toilet paper a bad name! :eheh:
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Well, the fact that I've been deleting my posts is a fairly visible sign, and one that actually borders on violating the CLA.
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Why the delete or why the violation of the CLA?
The latter is because the CLA protects things that 'discuss or improve the Work'. So if they want to preserve it they will have to do some work.
The former is complicated. I'm not allowed to link to Wedge generally, nor allowed to mentioned it really, under threat of moderation.
Since I dislike these rules, and have no real way of protesting the time I otherwise spent, I'm doing the only thing I can do about it. Note that I'm removing older ones first.
Besides, I figure people are going to notice my post count going down once it really starts to go down.
That, and the fact that butchs, in his self righteous, pigheadedness called me a troll more than once for suggesting things in his mod's threads, that I have no imagination and resort to stealing his ideas. That really just cemented it, though.
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No wonder I see posts by Orstio is still there but the the account is deleted. What happened to him anyway?
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He left.
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Basically you are doing the opposite direction instead to getting higher post count... :lol:
If really good people bid farewell to SMF, I wonder what SMF have now... :hmm:
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I've done something similar in a forum, Arantor. I've prepared a php script to manage that... What kind of script did you wrote to accomplish the deletion?
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I've done something similar in a forum, Arantor. I've prepared a php script to manage that... What kind of script did you wrote to accomplish the deletion?
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Oh.... If you want, I can share the code with you (yeah: not the best design - but it works).
40000 posts to delete 'by hand' are a pretty difficult task! :niark:
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Yeah but if he does that people would notice
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40000 posts gone with a single enter, that would create a big shockwave throughout the forum.. :D
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Something like:
"Hey! Where the hell are Arantor useful and precious posts?" :niark:
:ph34r:
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Don't they read this though? wouldn't they know by now and try to stop you?
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40000 posts gone with a single enter, that would create a big shockwave throughout the forum.. :D
Of course, 80% of the posts at SM.org are pretty much the same: "I have a problem cuz I'm a noobs but it's the software's faultz, helpz me or I'll install vBulletin instead."
Not that it'll be much different here once we release ourselves... :^^;:
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Don't they read this though? wouldn't they know by now and try to stop you?
Yeah but if he does that people would notice
The SMF team would argue that 40k, out of 2.8M, is just about 0.015% of the total post count...
Not that it'll be much different here once we release ourselves...
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We're gonna get new kinds of support questions, don't worry...
"I don't get it, I'm trying to paste my regular custom CSS into your index.css, but it keeps giving me errors!"
::)
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That's the thing. It needs to be done slowly because overnight it would easily be noticed and would instantly cause an uproar. So far, my count is down to 42k and no-one seems to have noticed yet.
My script deletes post one by one: it took 38hrs to delete my 7000 posts on the target forum.
It depends on the machine where you run the script (I started it on a shared hosting) and on the machine that runs the forum (in my case also a shared hosting).
I think that on smf it will take less time. :)
But the code can be tuned and calibrated! ;)
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Technology at your service! :niark:
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We're gonna get new kinds of support questions, don't worry...
"I don't get it, I'm trying to paste my regular custom CSS into your index.css, but it keeps giving me errors!"
::)
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Technology at your service! :niark:
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Oh, they noticed. More on this story later.
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Oh, they noticed. More on this story later.
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This is SMF we're talking about. The drama never ends.
Currently I am not permitted to edit or remove my posts. And there is conversation telling me how disappointed they are, etc.
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This is SMF we're talking about. The drama never ends.
[glow=red,2,300]Currently I am not permitted to edit or remove my posts.[/glow] And there is conversation telling me how disappointed they are, etc.
What kind of person are they? How can they deprived you of the right to delete your own posts? :o
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It's a permission. It can be revoked. I'll say no more about it at this juncture.
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What would you expect from them? They're the same guys who killed SMF with their vanity... They'll always blame others.
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It's to bad that things have to go like this...
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I'm afraid this has been going for a long time now... (Around 2009.) Just with different actors at the beginning.
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No, it's older than that.
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Though I can understand why they did the permission denied... ;)
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So can I. It remains to be seen what they're going to do next, of course.
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Mmm... maybe they'll ban me to theoretically get rid of a nuisance? :lol:
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It's not like you are removing all your posts overnite....
and above all you still response to support questions....
i'd say its a matter of fear of doing the hard real work, hoping that your work will save them from the hardship...