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Public area => The Pub => Topic started by: dorje on April 10th, 2011, 04:35 PM

Title: What about the blog module?
Post by: dorje on April 10th, 2011, 04:35 PM
Hello! :)

I'm planning to implement a blog system on my forum. So, as I'll move to wedge as soon as it is ready, I wanted to know if there is a system that uses the same DB tables / structure and - if that is not the case - how has the tables to be build in order to maintain the compatibility with wedge.

Thank you! :)
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: Arantor on April 10th, 2011, 04:45 PM
It's built in.

Specifically, it uses the topics and boards and messages tables - the one difference is that for the board(s) in question, there's a type column that will contain 'blog' instead of 'board'.
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: Nao on April 10th, 2011, 05:31 PM
Yes. As for features -- they're not all implemented yet, but have a look at nao.noisen.com for an example of how it'll be working in the end.
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: DoctorMalboro on April 10th, 2011, 10:35 PM
Is it going to blown my mind and make me leave wordpress behind?
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: Arantor on April 10th, 2011, 10:39 PM
Well, I'm going to be moving innovatenotimitate.com off WP, so you can expect it to do "the business".
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: DoctorMalboro on April 10th, 2011, 11:16 PM
quite a long name for a website...
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: Arantor on April 10th, 2011, 11:17 PM
But the site name is exactly what I'm about: "Innovate, not Imitate"
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: MultiformeIngegno on April 10th, 2011, 11:41 PM
The length is offset by the fact that it's a "sentence", so it's easy to remember. :)
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: Arantor on April 10th, 2011, 11:44 PM
Indeed, and in the current climate, of browsers more than capable of indexing your browsing habits, I rarely type more than "inn" anyway...
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: DoctorMalboro on April 11th, 2011, 03:26 AM
Still, there should be some kind of "import tool" from WP to Wedge...
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: Nao on April 11th, 2011, 07:11 AM
I think Pete intends to do that.
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: Arantor on April 11th, 2011, 08:53 AM
I do very much indeed intend that.
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: dorje on April 11th, 2011, 10:00 AM
Thank you Arantor and Nao for the answers. :)

By the way: I like this way. In fact it is similar in implementation as other things I'm doing on my site.

So I imagine that in "create board" there will be something like a "multi type" thing, where only certain groups will appear in board index?
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: Arantor on April 11th, 2011, 10:37 AM
No... there's a board type to indicate what type of board it is. Appearance is separately controlled (and it's possible to make a board hidden but accessible, or visible but not enterable)
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: texasman1979 on April 11th, 2011, 03:19 PM
How bout category wide permissions. Currently you have to set each board. Would be convenient for setting a categorys permissions and all the boards inside inherit those permissions unless other wise specified. Im sure a great many would aggree?
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: Arantor on April 11th, 2011, 03:42 PM
And that's the sort of thing 2.0's profile system was designed for.
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: texasman1979 on April 11th, 2011, 03:55 PM
From an admistrators point of view, if the forum is large with many moderator and admin categorys, say you got 9 cats a guest can view, 12 for members, 15 for lower mods, 18 for higher mods, 22 for site admins. Thats an emense amount of permissions to set by the board. How does profile settings converge on viewable cats/boards? If a new board is created in an admin cat, it automatically inherits the cats permissions. This comes from me and my site cause i have about 8-9 cats for all, and soon will have some for mods and then some for admins. It seems to me that having cat wide permissions would open some doors for stronger admining. The current way its still doable, this is just a request/suggestion. Maybe we can run a poll on it? See what the populous thinks.
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: Arantor on April 11th, 2011, 04:17 PM
/merummages in his big list of ideas he already discarded.
Category level permissions are actually a pain in the arse, not a boon. Five years of forum management tells me this.

Permissions are already complicated enough in SMF, just with outside and inside boards stuff. Now you want to complicate it with a whole extra layer, which has performance concerns as well as practical ones.

Again, you can already do this almost entirely out of the box in SMF 2.0 without much in the way of work, especially since the odds of actually needing per category permissions are low, much much lower than per board permissions.

And before you tell me that I don't know how to do things differently, and don't know how to think outside the box (because I know where this will go otherwise), I should point out that I'm no stranger to designing permissions systems *from scratch*(http://www.simpledesk.net/community/simpledesk_team_blog/the_new_permissions_system_simpledesk_1.1_709.0.html)

And this last week I've been making it an order of magnitude more powerful by being able to create departments for that helpdesk which can have different permissions structures.
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: Asgard on April 11th, 2011, 05:14 PM
Quote
Maybe we can run a poll on it? See what the populous thinks.
Design by committee... someone didn't do his assigned reading.
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: texasman1979 on April 11th, 2011, 05:57 PM
Once again, thats not what i meant, and im not trying to educate you. My observation was that if you have 10 boards in an admin cat, it might be made more simple to check one set of permissions rather than 10 to see if the cat should be visible or not. Performance wise, this does seem more efficiant, but there may very well be conditions outside my own personal scope making my summarization inaccurate. Everything i say isnt an attack on ones intelegence. :)
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: Arantor on April 11th, 2011, 06:12 PM
-sigh-

OK, so let's back up a bit to what's already been implemented, is already available and proven to work.

You create a profile. This is a set of permissions that applies in a board. You just set which boards you want to use this. Job done. This is even the case in SimpleDesk though it's an order of magnitude bigger.

No need for making a whole new level of permissions, complexity and confusion for the sake of saving time in the minority of cases. Not everyone is building huge forums that have tens of categories and dozens of boards.
Quote
Performance wise, this does seem more efficiant
How can it possibly be more efficient if it has to look in 3 places (outside boards, inside cats, inside boards) for permissions instead of 2 (outside boards, inside boards)?


As for not being an attack on intelligence, maybe not, but I'd think that maybe I'd have learnt something in 5 years as a forum admin, that I used when building my own systems, that I'd be using here. I'd also assume that I wouldn't retry things I've already tried hoping for a different result... you've made the suggestion, which is awesome, except that experience trumps ideas in this case.
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: texasman1979 on April 11th, 2011, 07:07 PM
Thank you arantor. I really dont mean to piss arantor off. It just so darn easy. Maybe i can try to piss him off and hell laugh. :)
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: Nao on April 11th, 2011, 08:03 PM
Pete, speaking of permission profiles... I don't remember if anyone suggested that in the related private topic, but what about this change? UI wise it would make sense to edit permissions and fine-tuning per group, rather than edit membergroups and fine-tune permissions for each of them... Imagine that, instead of having "Post new topic (yes) (no)", you had "Post new topic: (regular members - yes no) (moderators - yes no) (group 1 - yes no)"... We could simply show the group names through JavaScript, to save on the page load. We could also add a "check all" checkbox above "yes" and above "no", things like that... Then, permissions that are set the same for all groups would show "yes" or "no" in bold, so that one could easily find permissions that are set differently for each group. Plenty of things that could be done via JS really...
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: Arantor on April 11th, 2011, 08:13 PM
I think we covered that actually, because some areas in SMF already present their options in that fashion (in addition to the permissions area itself)
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: Nao on April 11th, 2011, 09:10 PM
Where?
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: and on April 11th, 2011, 10:33 PM
Quote from Arantor on April 11th, 2011, 04:17 PM
/merummages in his big list of ideas he already discarded.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

the only thing that does not suit me personally in a system of permits smf
a group moderator board
why someone has decided for me (and limited set of rights) that may or may not do the moderator in him board?
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: Arantor on April 11th, 2011, 10:45 PM
Quote from Nao/Gilles on April 11th, 2011, 09:10 PM
Where?
Calendar is the canonical example.
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: Nao on April 11th, 2011, 11:39 PM
You mean, area=managecalendar;sa=settings?
It's not really related to perms, although I see what you mean...
But I was thinking of having everything into one page really.
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: Artur on April 13th, 2011, 05:02 PM
I miss a lot of forum management from phpBB3 in SMF. Yeah I know it can be complicated but once you know how it works, it's kinda easy. I setup a board for someone else and searched for some things and was irritated that I couldn't found a simple thing I searched for.
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: Arantor on April 13th, 2011, 05:06 PM
phpBB is easy?! Both phpBB 2 and phpBB 3 confused the hell out of me.
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: Nao on April 13th, 2011, 06:16 PM
There are probably people who find it more comfortable than SMF, just like there are people who find the WordPress interface to be a genius thing... (Don't look at me, I read that in .Net Magazine! They're Jason Santa Maria fanboys, so that could explain it...)
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: Arantor on April 13th, 2011, 06:17 PM
I think a certain amount of it is what you get used to, but phpBB's interface never struck me as organised, but even as much as I think SMF's ACP is unwieldy and disorganised, it feels more logical to use than phpBB's does.
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: Nao on April 13th, 2011, 06:20 PM
I only feel it logical to use because I've been doing so for years... But I'm still pissed off by the permission system each time I have to create a new board or membergroup. Of course, it doesn't happen so often, so I'm fine with it...
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: Arantor on April 13th, 2011, 06:21 PM
What I should do is give you SD's newest builds and see what you think about those, with its department support, which is virtually per board permissions.
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: Nao on April 13th, 2011, 06:39 PM
Got any Ajax in it? :P
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: Arantor on April 13th, 2011, 06:54 PM
It has got some more AJAX in it, yes - you can AJAXively assign tickets now.
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: DoctorMalboro on April 13th, 2011, 11:51 PM
Taste is for ice-cream, the rest don't even argue about it. Everyone has it's own point...
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: Artur on April 18th, 2011, 10:32 PM
Quote from Nao/Gilles on April 13th, 2011, 06:20 PM
I only feel it logical to use because I've been doing so for years... But I'm still pissed off by the permission system each time I have to create a new board or membergroup. Of course, it doesn't happen so often, so I'm fine with it...
Yeah, that explains it well.

@Topic: Can that blog modul deactivated if it's not needed?
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: Arantor on April 18th, 2011, 10:42 PM
You won't even notice it if you don't use it.
Title: Re: What about the blog module?
Post by: Artur on April 20th, 2011, 03:43 PM
Quote from Arantor on April 18th, 2011, 10:42 PM
You won't even notice it if you don't use it.
I see. Good to know :)