Wedge

Public area => Development blog => Topic started by: Nao on June 21st, 2011, 08:19 PM

Title: New directions
Post by: Nao on June 21st, 2011, 08:19 PM
Glee! Joy! Wedge!

So, SMF 2.0 Final is out, eh?
Fantastic.

Now we're a 100% legal project. Anyone can do exactly what we're doing. Except that we're starting to know the drill -- it's been 10 months already since we started work on our custom forum system.

Obviously, we can't wait to be ready to release it. We want feedback, we want excitement, we want glee. We want to finally be able to show what we mean when we say we're going to do things differently. We're no longer linked to SMF, imagination is the limit. Well, and our lifespans, I guess. Pete and I have been plagued with real-life commitments and issues these last few months, so progress is slowing down -- but when I say it's slowing down, I mean we're only adding features slowly. Not stalling for 3 years without doing a thing, if you know what I mean.

Myself, among other things, I had to go through the death of the beloved, glorious PC I built in 2005. For the first time in ten years I've had to reinstall Windows and reset my entire development environment. It's tough, but it's something that has to happen once in a while. Although, if my PC had waited a couple more days to die on me, I'd have finished my big yearly backup... Ah, fun times.

So, now I'm back up. My driving license exam is coming this week, hopefully I won't fail it, and I'll be able to focus entirely on Wedge once again!
Title: Re: New directions
Post by: and on June 21st, 2011, 09:12 PM
drive up to 100 times easier than programming  :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: New directions
Post by: RvG on June 21st, 2011, 09:13 PM
man... you're driving me crazy now.
Title: Re: New directions
Post by: Dr. Deejay on June 21st, 2011, 09:33 PM
Good luck with your driving exams :) I'm really looking forward to see it running here on this site :D Can't wait to see it in action =)
Title: Re: New directions
Post by: Nao on June 21st, 2011, 10:13 PM
Oh, driving is easy, I've been driving a license-free car for 10 years... My girlfriend just wanted me to be able to drive her own automatic car as well. So I'm just getting a license for automatic cars. So it's really super easy. Only problem is, I'm so tired these days, I can hardly concentrate on driving safely... So that's where the challenge will be!

Sorry that my introductory post was so short -- I had to leave early.
Title: Re: New directions
Post by: Sergeant on June 21st, 2011, 10:32 PM
Bad luck with the workstation, Virtualization is the key!! Download a copy of VMWare Desktop edition (its free), then P2V (VMWare Converter) your desktop development environment, then in the event of you losing everything you simply mount the image on any other PC!
Title: Re: New directions
Post by: Drunken Clam on June 21st, 2011, 10:48 PM
Quote from Nao/Gilles on June 21st, 2011, 10:13 PM
Only problem is, I'm so tired these days, I can hardly concentrate on driving safely...
Lol, having just returned from Paris, (last night), it seems to me that most of your fellow countrymen suffer from the same problem!!  :wow: :eheh:
Title: Re: New directions
Post by: and on June 21st, 2011, 11:28 PM
Quote from Nao/Gilles on June 21st, 2011, 08:19 PM
Obviously, we can't wait to be ready to release it. We want feedback, we want excitement, we want glee. We want to finally be able to show what we mean when we say we're going to do things differently. We're no longer linked to SMF, imagination is the limit.
and we want the same
see
try
estimate
and use

and thank you for your work
Title: Re: New directions
Post by: Nao on June 21st, 2011, 11:46 PM
@DC> And you didn't even offer to meet me? :P

The French aren't such bad drivers... I think our roads are pretty safe compared to most civilized contries :P
Title: Re: New directions
Post by: YogiBear on June 21st, 2011, 11:49 PM
Best of luck with the driving exam.  :cool:

Uh, let's see now, it's keep left in Britain, keep right in France...  :unsure:
Title: Re: New directions
Post by: live627 on June 22nd, 2011, 01:59 AM
keep right in the USA too
Title: Re: New directions
Post by: groundup on June 22nd, 2011, 03:00 AM
Hopefully we'll see a revolution of open source forks ;) that will commit to the community instead of an individual or group of individuals.
Title: Re: New directions
Post by: Drunken Clam on June 22nd, 2011, 07:04 AM
Quote from Nao/Gilles on June 21st, 2011, 11:46 PM
@DC> And you didn't even offer to meet me? :P

The French aren't such bad drivers... I think our roads are pretty safe compared to most civilized contries :P
The thought did actually cross my mind, but, having 'she who must be obeyed' and the offspring in tow, I didn't think it wise to inflict them upon you! (and besides, I figured you would be far too busy 'Wedging'!)  :niark:

Maybe next time when I come over on my own.

Good luck with the test!
Title: Re: New directions
Post by: Arantor on June 22nd, 2011, 10:31 AM
Quote from groundup on June 22nd, 2011, 03:00 AM
Hopefully we'll see a revolution of open source forks ;) that will commit to the community instead of an individual or group of individuals.
Low blow. Especially since you clearly don't know the whole story. The move back to closed source is simply so that SMF doesn't start ripping off our code after the way things went down. Once our code is sufficiently far away from SMF to be useful, I suspect we'll reopen it again later.
Title: Re: New directions
Post by: Nao on June 22nd, 2011, 10:52 AM
Quote from Arantor on June 22nd, 2011, 10:31 AM
Low blow.
Oh, it didn't upset me but I didn't waste time re-explaining that which has been said many times before...
Quote
Especially since you clearly don't know the whole story. The move back to closed source is simply so that SMF doesn't start ripping off our code after the way things went down. Once our code is sufficiently far away from SMF to be useful, I suspect we'll reopen it again later.
I don't 'suspect' it, I'm sure of it. I can pledge it already: that's the final outcome of the Wedge license -- life as BSD. Whether in 6 months or 6 years, but it will end up being released as BSD. It all depends on a number of factors, but it's not as complicated as it sounds. If it happens in 6 years, it means that I've been working on it for 5 years and I just lost interest. Means I added hundreds of features, am proud of the software I built, and want it to live a new life. Of course, it also depends on Pete's involvement at that point. If he's still there, he'll have a say. But I reckon that if any of us leave Wedgeward, the remaining leader will determine whether to go BSD or not. BSD is a way to put more vitality into a project when it's stalling, so it's definitely an interesting choice. Especially 'real' BSD with no extra clauses. So, if we both leave the project at the same time, it's a given to me: we'll relicense immediately.

That's for the *farthest* point in time at which we'll go BSD.
Now, like Pete, I 'suspect' we will go BSD before we get bored of the project.

I'm personally considering the possibility of going BSD as soon as we release Wedge 1.0 Final. It will all depend on one factor: Wedge's visibility. It's as simple as that. If Wedge is well known by the time its first gold version is out, it's unlikely SMF will take our code and run unnoticed.
So, you guys know what you have to do. Do our marketing for ourselves.  :angel:

One point to note about SMF, while I'm talking about them. What I don't want, and what Pete doesn't want, is to have the SMF team take Wedge and use it as a basis for SMF 3.0. We also don't want anyone else to take Wedge, rebrand it and release it commercially or on a large scale. But bits of code -- we're open to it. We don't want to hurt the SMF team[1], we just don't want anyone to get hurt in the process, and first and foremost, *us*.

So, basically, if the SMF team asks me whether they can use some of my code for SMF 2.1 or 3.0, and they clearly state what code block (or file) they want to use, and they promise to credit Wedge properly for it, then I'll consider giving them a waiver to use the code. And that's already a lot, considering the SMF team did nothing in my favor for a few years now...
 1. Well, there ARE definitely people in the SMF team on whom I could certainly find creative uses for a cucumber and tabasco pepper...
Title: Re: New directions
Post by: Norodo on June 22nd, 2011, 12:11 PM
Hahaha. I say go for it. Closed source is definitely okay by me (again, I'm only one person but eh, opinions). It is nice that you plan to "return the favor" of open sourcing / licensing it later though.
Title: Re: New directions
Post by: Roz on June 22nd, 2011, 01:18 PM
OK, I finally had to register, couldn't stand it anymore. I'm really excited for Wedge. After having some stupid problems with SMF and realising that the SMF team was... slow, Arantor fortunatly pointed me to Wedge. I was baffled after reading the Feature List. If you guys can make it all happen, then wow, Wedgetard for life. So yeah, very much excited and glad this project is in capable hands.

I can't wait for a release.
Title: Re: New directions
Post by: Nao on June 23rd, 2011, 11:50 AM
Passed my exam! Yay!
Posted: June 23rd, 2011, 11:49 AM

Waiting for snail mail confirmation but it should be good.
Title: Re: New directions
Post by: Lex on June 23rd, 2011, 12:07 PM
Quote from Arantor on June 22nd, 2011, 10:31 AM
Low blow. Especially since you clearly don't know the whole story. The move back to closed source is simply so that SMF doesn't start ripping off our code after the way things went down. Once our code is sufficiently far away from SMF to be useful, I suspect we'll reopen it again later.
To be honest - That doesn't sound good any way you put it. It seems like you used SMF as the base of your work, and SMF did not try to stop you - but still you wish not to give back to it out of spite... Sorry.
Quote from Nao/Gilles on June 23rd, 2011, 11:50 AM
Passed my exam! Yay!
Posted: June 23rd, 2011, 11:49 AM

Waiting for snail mail confirmation but it should be good.
Congrats! :)
Title: Re: New directions
Post by: Arantor on June 23rd, 2011, 02:46 PM
Quote
To be honest - That doesn't sound good any way you put it. It seems like you used SMF as the base of your work, and SMF did not try to stop you - but still you wish not to give back to it out of spite... Sorry.
Thing is, that cuts both ways. All the time we were contributing to SMF, all the thousands of lines of code we wrote, all the time we spent debugging, reporting bugs etc., all the time that was happening, we were sort of welcome. The minute that contributions stopped flowing because we were treated like crap, we weren't very welcome at all. Really, it's like that a lot around there - all the time you're giving, you're welcome, and as soon as you stop, it is almost as if you're told not to let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
Title: Re: New directions
Post by: TE on June 23rd, 2011, 03:21 PM
Quote from Nao/Gilles on June 23rd, 2011, 11:50 AM
Passed my exam! Yay!
Congratulations   :cool:
Title: Re: New directions
Post by: DoctorMalboro on June 23rd, 2011, 04:01 PM
Congrats! Where's the champagne now?
Title: Re: New directions
Post by: Nao on June 23rd, 2011, 06:14 PM
Quote from Lex on June 23rd, 2011, 12:07 PM
To be honest - That doesn't sound good any way you put it. It seems like you used SMF as the base of your work, and SMF did not try to stop you - but still you wish not to give back to it out of spite... Sorry.
Let's see it differently.
The *current* SMF team (and some ex-members) is what we have a problem with.

SMF, itself, was developed by many people, most of whom left the team long ago. We are continuing THEIR work. If we could have done WITHOUT the current team's code, we would have. (Heck, we would have released Wedge 1 months ago, too.) The only reason we have their code in Wedge is because we have to base it off the SMF 2.0 Final codebase, i.e. the one that is BSD'ed.
Quote
Congrats! :)
This 'ordeal' took nearly a year of my life... I signed up last July, gave up on the highway code stuff after a couple of months of hard and annoying work (to, guess what... focus 100% on Wedge!), then my GF made me sign up again back in January, which is when I started to slow down on Wedge, curiously... Finally took my highway code (code de la route) exam in April, then took my first driving lessons in May and passed the exam in June. It was quicker in the end :) (Probably because I focused a lot on it.)

Now that I'm done, I'm really gonna be able to turn my thoughts to Wedge. And recover, too. This driving exam thing awfully damaged me in the long run. I'm too old for this shit™.

@DM> We have a good bottle in the fridge waiting to be opened. :)
Title: Re: New directions
Post by: Arantor on June 23rd, 2011, 06:41 PM
That's true enough, and I'd actually been quite content to let the past go to a point. But I don't exactly appreciate it when the past comes back and starts jabbing at me, as was the case here. Go back up to where this started, on the previous page, and you'll see it started out with a current SMF team member criticising us for not going BSD, a decision taken months ago when we were still actively in the midst of arguing (read: trying not to get shafted, again)

I'm comfortable with the decisions made, and I'd love it for the past to remain in the past, but guess what, even if we don't, the past is dragged up again by someone else.
Title: Re: New directions
Post by: Stef on June 23rd, 2011, 07:16 PM
Congrats with your driving license.

Sorry to say, but when stops the discussion about the SMF team.
Forget and go on.

Stef.
 
Title: Re: New directions
Post by: Arantor on June 23rd, 2011, 07:21 PM
Ask them to do so, then. We were fine until one of the team decided to throw their not-well-informed opinion over here.
Title: Re: New directions
Post by: Stef on June 23rd, 2011, 07:25 PM
Who, then i tell them also.
Title: Re: New directions
Post by: groundup on July 2nd, 2011, 08:34 PM
Quote from Arantor on June 23rd, 2011, 07:21 PM
Ask them to do so, then. We were fine until one of the team decided to throw their not-well-informed opinion over here.
What are you talking about? I just said that I would like to see it released under an open source license to continue in the spirit. You're the one talking about history and the past. I don't care about it. I never have.
Title: Re: New directions
Post by: Nao on July 2nd, 2011, 08:48 PM
I try not to get too involved in these stories these days, but I'm afraid he has a point -- your point really can be interpreted that way.
Title: Re: New directions
Post by: Arantor on July 2nd, 2011, 10:05 PM
Quote from groundup on July 2nd, 2011, 08:34 PM
What are you talking about? I just said that I would like to see it released under an open source license to continue in the spirit. You're the one talking about history and the past. I don't care about it. I never have.
I couldn't see any way of interpreting it as a blow at us for not going open source when SMF has, and as you have since seen, we have our reasons for doing that which you were not aware of. There's a difference between encouraging someone to take a good path, and discouraging someone from taking a bad path, and you sounded very much in the latter.
Title: Re: New directions
Post by: WasdMan on March 22nd, 2013, 06:09 PM
I can only congratulate the new direction. While I am committed to the SMF system, but the more I come here, the more I love this obstacle.