Wedge
Public area => Off-topic => The Pub => Other software => Topic started by: live627 on February 19th, 2011, 11:51 PM
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(Split by Nao from "Looking for Portal Suggestions".)
DP's founder was once a dev for SP - maybe that's where the DP chasing SP impression came from?
DP currently has nothing in the way of articles.
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DP's founder was once a dev for SP - maybe that's where the DP chasing SP impression came from?
DP currently has nothing in the way of articles.
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Is that your way of saying "Hello"?
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- DreamPortal - occasionally very hard to grasp the concept behind modules/layout + no real articles(AFAIK)
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I'm afraid DP is quite dead and there's nothing we can do about it. May I add that we'd rather not have Dream Portal flames around here?
I only moved this topic among others to the public area because I made some mass topic moves and barely read the contents (only checked that it didn't have any private stuff in it.)
Regarding DP, it's bad mojo to us.
Last year, at the suggestion of Arantor, they chose to go BSD.
Then, when we started discussing writing portal features for Wedge, Dream Portal came into it and we decided to look into forking it for Wedge, since it's allowed, and we already had one of the DP developers onboard (and one of its project managers IIRC).
Well, turned out that the Dream Portal project lead(s) was/were adamantly against it... And when you start questioning your very own license, there's a problem with the way you're dealing with your project.
In the end, we just felt this behavior was too childish that it could hurt the quality of the work that its developers put into it. And we decided against using Dream Portal at all.
In the end we'll probably write everything by ourselves. It will take time but that's what we get for playing things fair and square. :P (It's a good thing I wrote AeMe, innit? It would be awful if I couldn't reuse it eheh.)
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I suggest to stop this discussion about DP right now before things get out of hand again. This is not about DP but about wedge ;) :cool:
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As I said... I find it odd that ccbtimewiz would register here, and post precisely in this topic, to say something obscure. If he's not planning to say hello and keep his act together, then he'd better leave now because that's obviously him I was talking about. I try my best at keeping my ideas open about people (which is why I have nothing against Chris being here as long as he acts properly like any newcomer instead of just posting weird messages), but I also expect others to do the same for us. I rest my case.
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I don't understand why he did that... Anyways, back to topic! :angel:
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I'm afraid DP is quite dead and there's nothing we can do about it. May I add that we'd rather not have Dream Portal flames around here?
I only moved this topic among others to the public area because I made some mass topic moves and barely read the contents (only checked that it didn't have any private stuff in it.)
Regarding DP, it's bad mojo to us.
Last year, at the suggestion of Arantor, they chose to go BSD.
Then, when we started discussing writing portal features for Wedge, Dream Portal came into it and we decided to look into forking it for Wedge, since it's allowed, and we already had one of the DP developers onboard (and one of its project managers IIRC).
Well, turned out that the Dream Portal project lead(s) was/were adamantly against it... And when you start questioning your very own license, there's a problem with the way you're dealing with your project.
In the end, we just felt this behavior was too childish that it could hurt the quality of the work that its developers put into it. And we decided against using Dream Portal at all.
In the end we'll probably write everything by ourselves. It will take time but that's what we get for playing things fair and square. :P (It's a good thing I wrote AeMe, innit? It would be awful if I couldn't reuse it eheh.)
I'm not responsible for DP anymore so really I don't have anything to say. And respectfully put, the vote was against to allow the inclusion of DP inside of any other software.As I said... I find it odd that ccbtimewiz would register here, and post precisely in this topic, to say something obscure. If he's not planning to say hello and keep his act together, then he'd better leave now because that's obviously him I was talking about. I try my best at keeping my ideas open about people (which is why I have nothing against Chris being here as long as he acts properly like any newcomer instead of just posting weird messages), but I also expect others to do the same for us. I rest my case.
I don't understand why he did that... Anyways, back to topic! :angel:
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And respectfully put, the vote was against to allow the inclusion of DP inside of any other software.
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DP went through a license change to closed source
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Such things aren't retroactive though. Any release that existed with a BSD licence can still be used for that purpose.
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I suppose that's true
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In the end we'll probably write everything by ourselves. It will take time but that's what we get for playing things fair and square. :P (It's a good thing I wrote AeMe, innit? It would be awful if I couldn't reuse it eheh.)
did not take - should not
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Recomendation: DO NOT USE PORTALS.
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... use SSI.php ! ;)
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Gentlemen ! Go down to the ground . You 're writing a script for someone ? For themselves or for
housewives users ?
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A quote I have of relevance at this point... from http://aeva.noisen.com/6180/announcement-fork-you-smf/msg248317/#msg248317
We aren't doing it for you. I personally do not give two hoots if anyone uses it or not. I at least am doing it for me, for my use and making sure that I build it to cope with whatever others want to throw at it. So you can jump up and down and say you'll make the switch if we add a bunch of features that I at least am not overly interested in and as stated are implementing mostly to prevent people whining at us (less people whining about things that don't need fixing = less support hassles = more time we can actually code), but that sounds like an ultimatum to me, and I don't do so good with those.
Here's the deal: we're going to add features, that we want to use, that hopefully others will want to use too, and we release it. You install it side by side, try it out and if you like it enough, you keep it. Otherwise you ditch it and stick with your existing stuff.
That works great with me because you get the freedom to try without any obligation on your part, we get to release it without any obligation on our part, everyone's a winner. Except the people who tell us what we should or should not do, who will likely end up very unsatisfied because we're not building their dream platform, but building OUR dream platform that isn't quite up to their perfect standards.
We're not holding a gun to your head, we're not demanding you use it, nor are we begging for you to use it. When it's ready, it gets out there, and it's YOUR choice whether you try it, not ours, and throwing me a line of 'if you add x, I'll make the jump' doesn't inspire me at all. It actually makes me less interested because I have no time to cater to people who want it exactly their way.
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Oh :( wiped my nose
gave me in the neck
maybe :)
Do not repeat mistakes MaxsiteCMS. There , too, not to listen to the users .
A holy place is never empty . Not you , so who else would write .
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Do not repeat mistakes MaxsiteCMS.
There , too, not to listen to the users .
If you want something suited to your tastes, do it yourself or pay someone to do it for you. Otherwise, you'll have to pray that we have the same vision as you.
Go to simplemachines.org and ask them to implement whatever you want. You'll get the same answer and that'll be very logical. When I worked on Aeva Media, I received dozens of silly requests that I never implemented because they didn't match my vision. In the end, after two years of work, everyone was happy with AeMe. Guess why? Because I'd reached the point where my vision was fulfilled, and it turned out that many people finally got it and loved what they saw.
So, if you don't like Wedge when it's out, you're free to go to another platform. There will be people who will be appreciative of our work. It will make us very happy to see Wedge used on very small scale, and very large scale forums altogether. There is no "universal taste". Neither Pete and I like the WordPress platform, even though it's loved by most people. Wedge won't be loved by everyone. But it will be loved by its authors, and that alone will warrant its continued support from us. It's more than many software can boast about.
Just look at where it's at right now. We started the project on August 25, with diverging ideas about it but a common trust in each other's skills and beliefs. Seven months later, the project is still extremely active, we made 675 commits, added tens of thousands of lines of code... 95% of all web projects are dropped after a couple of months, because it's too complicated, or doesn't go in the direction the author wanted, or just lack of interest in general.
Wedge is here to stay. First of all, it will be out this year. People will be able to test it, give feedback and determine what they like best. So, until we're done with the implementation of our dream features, we won't implement anyone else's requests. We will, however, make tweaks based on community feedback. But we have to draw a line.
(Pete, maybe we should make a FAQ about feature requests...)
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I'm not responsible for DP anymore so really I don't have anything to say. And respectfully put, the vote was against to allow the inclusion of DP inside of any other software.
It seems to me that the fact that we dropped the idea of forking DP was to show proof that we didn't want to fight with DP, even though we legally have the right to fork it. But your behavior doesn't seem appreciative of our efforts.You find it odd because I read a topic that interests me? You're instigating an argument that shouldn't even exist.
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i do have a question, can simple portal be used with wedge, i use it quite extesively on myfewclicks.com and will have to have something similar in order to port over.
maybe contact simple portal and see if they will create a version for wedge?
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i do have a question, can simple portal be used with wedge, i use it quite extesively on myfewclicks.com and will have to have something similar in order to port over.
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i know, i read it. lol
i was wondering if wedge was going to make there own version of a optional portal, or hook up with one of the established portals out there and see about getting made a version for wedge.
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- No mods will work. Absolutely none. Zero.
- All mods will be upgradeable to work with Wedge. Some will require some work, others will require a complete rewrite.
- We won't upgrade these mods ourselves.
- However, if we find them interesting, and the mod author asks for help, we'll try to help.
SMF's current mod system is flawed enough that it can be seen as one of its major drawbacks. So we needed to go through that anyway.
Plus, it ensures we don't have to bother about mod compatibility when we do complete rewrites of some areas.
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I'm afraid DP is quite dead and there's nothing we can do about it. May I add that we'd rather not have Dream Portal flames around here?
I only moved this topic among others to the public area because I made some mass topic moves and barely read the contents (only checked that it didn't have any private stuff in it.)
Regarding DP, it's bad mojo to us.
Last year, at the suggestion of Arantor, they chose to go BSD.
Then, when we started discussing writing portal features for Wedge, Dream Portal came into it and we decided to look into forking it for Wedge, since it's allowed, and we already had one of the DP developers onboard (and one of its project managers IIRC).
Well, turned out that the Dream Portal project lead(s) was/were adamantly against it... And when you start questioning your very own license, there's a problem with the way you're dealing with your project.
In the end, we just felt this behavior was too childish that it could hurt the quality of the work that its developers put into it. And we decided against using Dream Portal at all.
In the end we'll probably write everything by ourselves. It will take time but that's what we get for playing things fair and square. :P (It's a good thing I wrote AeMe, innit? It would be awful if I couldn't reuse it eheh.)
Why not join the team and help write 2.0 version of it that works with wedge?
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Because at the time we were looking at it, it was the only one that had a forkable licence, and seeing that live's around here, it sort of made sense to consider it.
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you didnt answer my question. lol
do yall plan on having your own built in portal, or making arrangements with one of the portal makers for a portal?
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Because at the time we were looking at it, it was the only one that had a forkable licence, and seeing that live's around here, it sort of made sense to consider it.
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You didn't answer my question. Why Fork it instead trying to be a part of the DP team and make it better?
DP on Wedge would require a rewrite for a lot of areas. There's no point in maintaining both versions in parallel. We'd just fork it, not as a "DP for Wedge", but as a *part* of Wedge.
Anyway-- we gave up on that, remember?
texasman, no arrangements. The owner of portaMx made quite an impression here (let's just say she made a fool out of herself...), DP is a no-no, and as for TinyPortal, it's up to Bloc (and I think he's given up on it, although you'd best ask him.)
SimplePortal, I have no idea but I don't think the license would allow for anything anyway.
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ou didn't answer my question. Why Fork it instead trying to be a part of the DP team and make it better?
As for the portals, I honestly wouldn't want to include any of the current ones, not because they're bad at what they do - because they're not - but they're lacking vision. They're all very similar with a lot of similar ideas in there and for the most part the differentiation isn't in their featureset but the ease of the admin panel which SP has above the others, so even though TP is more powerful, most people don't use it and instead combine SP with the download system and/or a gallery.
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Speaking about portals, maybe we should be clear about one of Wedge's differences with SMF.
It has a sidebar. You see, like the one here on the left.
The sidebar is there to stay. It's not going away. It's going to be on every single page of the forum. It will contain contextual data. You're gonna have to live with it, hate it or love it whatever, it's here to stay. Probably there will be plugins out there to disable it, but it'll be there by default.
Also, it's awfully easy to add a sub-template (code block) to the sidebar (or anywhere else, for that matter.)
Because of these two points, even if we don't provide a portal system, anyone will be able to easily add blocks -- or simply, release a plugin that allows you to do it. We're not worried about that really.
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ok with the sidebar, will you add a panel to customize it without mods? it is a reasonable thing to be in the default package. fully customizable sidebar from an admin panel.
what you think?
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I don't see why not, really.
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@Pete> Apart from the extra work? ;)
Well, really, yeah it makes sense to make it configurable...ok, I said to my self I would shut up and not get involved in this...
but enough is enough!!! I don't know what has been going on in the past, but I can look at the present...I chose DP because for me it was the portal that attracted me the most...then a few days later it went down...I tried to log on for a few days, but no luck.... a couple of weeks later I tried again, and I found the site, a bit different than the last time, and I had to register again...that was not a big deal for me, I still enjoyed the portal so I wanted to ask more questions about it...
In the end, most of the DP team went to create their own DP fork (Envision Portal, IIRC), I don't know what has become of it -- I've never even installed DP so I wouldn't know (and couldn't care.)I see a lot of negative things about DP around lately, what I don't see is any one with a better alternative, solutions etc...my conclusion: it's all based on hurts, offenses and so on...
What are you saying? That we should fork DP for Wedge and make enemies out of them?
Can I remind you that THEY told us (well, they told Pete, I wasn't part of this story), that they were vehemently against Wedge re-using DP?and since I don't know the whole history I can't say for sure who's right or wrong,
but this I can say: DP is a great portal, let the past be the past and if you want to be a part of the future join in :)
I am sure that many of you guys are brilliant people, but don't let the past guide your future :)
What is it with DP?! Why does it provoke so many reactions? It's just a portal!
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Personally, I would suggest Portal 2 even though it's not out yet.
Wait, that is what we're talking about right...? :P
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The wedge is a lie!
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You never installed it or tried it out? and still you're so negative to it?!
And even then, I never talked with the management, myself. But I don't take it lightly when others are behaving aggressively with my friends. So, yeah, I'm with Pete on this. I'm with live627 who felt kinda betrayed.I installed before I knew anything about this conflict and I liked it ;)
Because I like the portal, and I don't think it deserves all shit it has been getting lately! FYI that was why I wrote this message in the first place...
I think you lost an opportunity to stay quiet ;)Well, I don't know who insulted you...the only thing I have seen is about a license that you guys didn't approve of....
- They were looking for a license model.
- Pete (Arantor) suggested BSD. They took BSD.
- Then Pete suggested we include DP into Wedge. We decided to give it a try. Out of politeness, he told them what we'd do. He then got a backlash from the DP team, saying he wasn't allowed to do it. They didn't know SHIT about what BSD was, and yet they were complaining that this happened at all.
Pete has yet to receive an apology from the DP team about this.and anyways the former team is totally replaced....maybe it is time to reconnect and talk things over?
Got it?Well, it's a great portal! that doesn't deserve all the negativity it has been given lately ;) Witches was burned some centuries ago, it doesn't mean the people doing it was right :P
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Jazz - Who are you?
To expand on what Nao said, I've also been wrongly accused of destroying property...
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Can you read?
- They were looking for a license model.
- Pete (Arantor) suggested BSD. They took BSD.
- Then Pete suggested we include DP into Wedge. We decided to give it a try. Out of politeness, he told them what we'd do. He then got a backlash from the DP team, saying he wasn't allowed to do it. They didn't know SHIT about what BSD was, and yet they were complaining that this happened at all.
Pete has yet to receive an apology from the DP team about this.
* Various devs came and went. Solomon and Chris remained the only really constant figures in charge, with everyone else being on the fence and back and forth.
* Early 2010 when I was basically full time on SimpleDesk, Chris came to me and talked me into helping. I said I'd take a look to see what I could do but that my time was limited, Chris seemed to think I agreed to develop it virtually singlehandedly.
* I took one look at the whole project and declared it chronically mismanaged. A lead developer whose idea of documentation was to ask him (which was fine until he had to go away on RL business), no licence, no CLA and no proper revision control. To a developer, that's not even providing the basic requirements.
* I talked through the choices of licences, they agreed with New BSD.
* I left, figuring that it just wasn't going to change, and SD was taking priority.
---- time passed ----
* Chris asked me to drop by occasionally and offer suggestions.
* Solomon makes a single comment about "the way some things should be done", I rebutted with points about why it wasn't necessarily the best way to go, cue 3 pages of ranting, that descended into personal insults (mostly from him)
* Sometime around there, the question came up for a portal for us. I suggested that we could look at it and see if there was anything we were interested in, but knowing that full well we would likely rewrite it anyway.
* This was mentioned to the DP team who took umbridge that we were looking to fork their work.
* They subsequently changed the licence, and we pointed out that we could if we wanted to but around that time, there were silly games being played over badges and we realised that we just didn't want the hassle.
But yeah.Wheres the "power" in that? A portal, in the real sense, is about a whole website experience, all the things that make a forum MORE than a forum - not a addon that mimic some basic tools for it. By adding Aeva Wedge will already be more than a forum - and thus a better portal than any portal! ;D
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OMG, the drama, the ego.
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If you're referring to any of my comments, there's no ego involved, just facts about what happened.
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The drama of their second best (or first?) developer calling it quits forevermore... ego already shattered...
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For once, and I don't mean to be disrespectful, but I agree with Nao. :P
It's just a portal, no need for so much reaction. DP was what it was, my first time getting to manage something, to arrange a team, to get development started, etc. Everyone has to start somewhere and that was my starting point. Lots of things could have been handled better, but all-in-all the experience, and more importantly the knowing of what is right to do and what is wrong to do, will help me in my future projects should they so come.
I can't speak for the others involved with it. Some loved it, others hated it, and some just disappeared. For those that were somehow effected personally by my portal-- I'm sorry, and please go see a therapist or something because it's not that big a deal.
I intend on writing mods for Wedge, and I intend on also doing them for Simple Machines as long as their software does not falter entirely.
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I agree, SMF is good, but has potential to improve...and I can see how frustrating it must be if you have tried to input on the development of SMF only to be met by ignorance from some douche bags on the SMF team
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Oh my... where's the sense of continuing this ton of useless posts?!
What does this have to do with Wedge, NOW?
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im bout to push continue if yall dont stop bitching. lol
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OMG is this still going on? I thought I had calmed things down... I want to earge all the DP members to stop posting here right now! This is not going to fix what has happened. To many things have been going on to fix this. We go our way, they go their way.
So stop right now!
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this actually getting interesting It's not about the software, it was the previous team
The only one, as I can see it, that is from the previous team is SoLo...he is a guy with strong opinions, but as far as I can see he is a guy with backbone and he knows what he is talking about ;)
I see a lot of hurts, anger, offended people etc....and this can be for good reasons for all I know...but I know that it is possible to deal with that in some way and put it in the past
I didn't attack anyone in person, and I find it a bit strange to get some of the comments I get here, not that I take it personal, but still I would presume that most people here are grown ups and would refrain from that ;)
Since it is a new team working on DP now maybe we could smoke a peace pipe?
and I can see how frustrating it must be if you have tried to input on the development of SMF only to be met by ignorance
Funny, certain people have said the same exact thing with DP.and I am not against the project
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dammit im pushing it. :(
:D
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OMG is this still going on?
dammit im pushing it. :(
:D
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I've long since decided to add support for selecting what the front page does; it's one of the features I need to add before I migrate innovatenotimitate.com off WordPress, to automatically drop into the right board.
@JaZz, Bloc originally wrote TinyPortal. Also, see www.blocweb.net(http://www.blocweb.net) which doesn't currently use a portal. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
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@JaZz, sigh... look dude, you know you're not going to hang around here for much longer, so why just don't you gracefully edit the above post, nobody here is insulting you, but if you feel like insulting is because either you don't know what to say or you just don't know what are you talking about.
... why didn't I ask to be a mod before... sigh!
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I didn't know Bloc wrote TinyPortal....but then Bloc why don't you see the point in having a portal? once upon a time you did... and probably you're a genius or a semi-genius
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What a douche. Dp is in good hands with you. Do you know what dp means btw? Not, not porn.
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Tsssk.
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Jazz you are making things worse... please stop!
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I do understand that...but the portal is NOT for the experiences users is it? it is for the common man who want to have a forum/website with easy access to functions or mods...
I know even experienced admins who use SP or TP or others. The whole point of a portal is to be able to group certain content in a certain way, to present a front page, sidebar etc. i.e. to bring all the content together.
Except other than aesthetics and a few feature differences, there's not a lot to differentiate the portals.Hmmm, since I am getting curious here....were you involved with DP? and why the heck are you talking about porn? and what is it about this: "DP is in good hands with you"? I wanna contribute with the development as much as I can...I believe in the project and I have friends/resources that do as well...don't quite understand what I did to you Nao.....
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Jazz does not represent DP or their intentions, I'm sure.
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What Nao is saying is that he thinks with development being carried out by someone who seemingly misses the point of what a portal does, it's not going to go very far.
You guys are well respected within the SMF community and without. BUT, seriously... Missing the point of what a portal does? I'm sure you guys have a ton of experience and knowledge, do me a FAVOR and KEEP IT!
Whether someone is at the site for a brief time or for the long haul, does not mean that his comments and/or opinions are unimportant! A bunch of hypocrits you are! I'm glad for you with Wedge, but I don't think that putting other FREE PROJECTS and their Team down is very friendly at all! Ofcourse, I don't feel that this is even a human thing to do. You guys trout around like you are doing the world a HUGE FAVOR! Good for you, but there are others trying to help out in other ways also, do me a favor and leave it alone!
@ccbtimewiz - I'd appreciate it if you would stop trotting around other sites trying to play a good guy, bad guy role and be more active at the actual Dream Portal site instead.
There was a few points within this topic that were actually wrong... or atleast, I've never been confronted with this...To expand on what Nao said, I've also been wrongly accused of destroying property...
Arantor made a few mistakes in what his perception of everything was and how it happened within his story, Reply #50(http://wedge.org/pub/off/6512/looking-for-portal-suggestions/msg257348/#msg257348)that descended into personal insults (mostly from him)
When Arantor confronted live627, I suppose he felt it would be better for live627 to confront us with the idea and let us know of his intentions of using Dream Portal's code in the SMF Fork. And in that topic live627 stated that they were planning on using our code without using our Dream Branding.
Here is most of the discussion, pay attention to who is saying what...The idea is to use DP's code to add a portal to the fork.
The changes in the fork are numerous and varied, so the adaptation would be, properly speaking, a fork.
By "the fork" I mean the SMF fork that Nao and Arantor are working on.
I technically don't need to bring it here for discussion since we use a BSD license and a fork of this software could commence anyway.
Some of the "Dream" branding will probably be removed.
Forking Dream Portal is not permissible without permission (or retaining copyright).
If you mean having a working DP for a forked SMF... then sure, I don't mind it.
They will not use any of Dream Portal's code.
They will not use any of Dream Portal's code.
Judging by these answers, why oh why did you choose BSD?
Well, if they want to use DP's code, I don't understand why they would remove the Dream branding? I believe that is a breach of the BSD License as far as I understand it.
Again, I have nothing against them using DP's code for their SMF fork. But perhaps it would be a wiser call for them to either create their own Portal, or have some of us from Dream Portal help them with their Core Portal.
In any case, I also remember that code that you contributed to Dream Portal and the project belongs to you and you alone and can be reused in any other projects by you.
- Solomon
FFS
They will not use DPs code, and even if they do, they will leave the copyright intact. End of discussion, topic locked.
EDIT:
It's pointless to discuss whether or not people use our code. If they do, either they put our copyright, or they don't. Discussing it is not going to change that. It also hasn't even happened yet, so even more so pointless. But more importantly, I'm sure we all know that we're not ACTUALLY going to enforce the copyright farther than asking people to place it back, which makes this discussion even more so pointless.
It's a Modified-BSD license that prevents any and all forking without written consent from me.
And I emphasized me for a reason, since I am registering Dream Portal in my local court.
I don't have enough time in a day to waste hunting down these topics and trying to prove my innocence for doing a FREE PROJECT. If you have 12 hours a day to spend if you don't have a JOB, or any responsibilities in life to document everything you code for FREE, than GOOD FOR YOU! Do not criticize, belittle, or mock others who don't do this, because of the lack of time and the LACK of people willing to actually help either!!
Friends are important in this world. Glad you are willing to stick by them Nao, even when they are wrong! It's a rare trait to see these days. Good for you both!
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Just a few notes...
No, Pete, I didn't mean what you said. My message was more straightforward. Jazz was insulting and I found it amusing that he would resort to genitalia references when he's a "developer for DP". To me, DP means something else that can't be explained here (:))). I was just making fun of him, because he didn't deserve more than this share of attention from me.
As I said: I never installed DP. I never tried it. I never used a website that had it installed. I only trusted Pete that we could use it, because he'd been part of the DP team at some point and he said it was a good compromise. It has been months since he decided to call it quits with them because of the BSD affair. He, however, remained suspicious of the team leaders after this. That includes you guys, Solomon and Chris. I don't know you, I barely talked to you in my life and I clearly do not have any intention of wasting my time talking with you considering how foolishly you've been acting so far (mostly Jazz really, but you seem to stick with him here. Plus... It's "good for me" that I possibly don't have a job? Nice.)
Now, regarding censorship -- I don't believe in censorship unless there are specific details which should not be made public. Insults are boring but are not among the things I consider are candidates for immediate deletion. I don't know who deleted Jazz's posts, maybe it was himself on the DP team's request, but I don't condone it.
See, there's a "Hide" button in the button strip for each post. It is the equivalent of a post deletion, meaning only the author and moderators can view the post. I would appreciate it if, anytime you feel a post should be deleted, you actually clicked the Hide button and then submitted a report for me to look into it. Then I'd decide what to do with it in a timely manner.
Thank you.
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Now, regarding censorship -- I don't believe in censorship unless there are specific details which should not be made public. Insults are boring but are not among the things I consider are candidates for immediate deletion. I don't know who deleted Jazz's posts, maybe it was himself on the DP team's request, but I don't condone it.
I deleted my posts, and I won't even bother to discuss with does guys in the future....
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Wave the white flag of truce. Let's be done with this, or is it too late for a peace treaty? I signed mine off a month ago.
Thanks for interpreting that, Bloc.
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Wow, what a blow. I suppose you guys are going around talking a ton of bad nonsense on me?
Did not insult you in that topic. I believe it started out with you insulting me bro. Please let me know if you want me to spend the 2 hours of hunting down the topic and repeating POST BY POST so that I can actually prove this to you, if it makes you feel any better, k? Telling me that I don't know the difference between in_array and empty. That in_array is no where near empty and it can't be used and you provided an example. And so you took what I said next offensively, which wasn't meant that way bro. When I said that I was glad to have taught you something, I didn't mean it offensively! Taken completely out of context. Ofcourse, I'm not surprised by a person who thinks negatively either.
Apparently you don't know the difference between empty and in_array if you think they can do the same job - under some circumstances, they can, but it requires that you set things up right. Most of the time they don't, which means you're faffing about with array_flip and array_keys, which isn't always practical, like I mentioned.When Arantor confronted live627, I suppose he felt it would be better for live627 to confront us with the idea and let us know of his intentions of using Dream Portal's code in the SMF Fork. And in that topic live627 stated that they were planning on using our code without using our Dream Branding.
I don't have enough time in a day to waste hunting down these topics and trying to prove my innocence for doing a FREE PROJECT. If you have 12 hours a day to spend if you don't have a JOB, or any responsibilities in life to document everything you code for FREE, than GOOD FOR YOU! Do not criticize, belittle, or mock others who don't do this, because of the lack of time and the LACK of people willing to actually help either!!
Thing is, I do have responsibilities. I spend my time coding when not performing those responsibilities. Some of my responsibilities ARE coding. And in so doing, I am required to document my code. Thing is, a lot of the time, documentation should be written while the code is written, incorrect documentation is worse than no documentation, so keep it up to date as you change the code. Then it's done, and scores of people that follow you can make use of it.
Interesting point: Chris was the first person to ask me what SimpleDesk's equivalent of an SMF function was. Since I'd already documented it, I was able to point him in the direction of the documentation and not have to get into pointing him to the function and having to answer any questions about what it does.
I was unwilling to help you after it was made clear that DP wasn't interested in what I had to say. A project that thought attaching files to a thread was a good revision system, for example. Well, consider that with revision control you don't only get a log of what's physically changed, but you can denote in the commit note why you changed it - there's documentation right there! Do it as you go along.
Oh, and just in closing, you talked about negativity. Except that you started out here with a negative view because things are now out of their original context. Everything that started in that 3 page argument was because you took a single comment of mine out of context because it disagreed with your view. Who's being negative now?
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Thing is, a lot of the time, documentation should be written while the code is written, incorrect documentation is worse than no documentation, so keep it up to date as you change the code. Then it's done, and scores of people that follow you can make use of it.
One of the big issues in documentation world, for coders, is this. "Okay, it took me hours to write these two fucking cool lines of code... If I document them, they'll lose all their magic. It'll made it look like I came up with them in a second."
Of course this is wrong -- but I think sometimes, without the coder's knowledge, the thought is creeping into their mind. I know it did to me, before that. I know there are lots of mojo things in Class-CSS.php that are not documented, and that I should. Describing what a function does is of the utmost importance, but describing what complex lines do is just as important, I think. It's just too bad sometimes I unconsciously ignore these. :^^;:
Anyway. I think the debate is over... JaZz came out as very immature and probably not in a good position to work as a developer on a large project (and, fear not Bloc, not representative of the Norwish people in its entirety. After all, I *am* a big fan of Opera :P). Solomon didn't help either.
I think we can safely say that these two people will have a hard time joining the Friends group here, let alone become coders on Wedge. Apart from that, I wish you the best, guys.
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about jazz... he is new to smf and does not know what has been going on. only thing he knew about that portal discussion is that he got treated nice all the way and that is why he does not like the... "sound" the posts made. that is why he acted like he did. so if you see him again, don't judge too fast please ;)
¤dit: I'd say he acted similar to what you, Nao, wrote about your actions due to how your friends got treated.
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....He came in, insulted us and then deleted his posts without saying g'bye.
Well, I don't see any reason for him to come back. He made a fool of himself. Apologies, maybe? I couldn't care less, personally...
See, in life you have to make decisions about what you care about. I care about the making of Wedge -- in fact, I care too much about it. I also care about SMF's making up of new rules to prevent us from silently advertising Wedge over there. I don't care about a DP developer who has hormone issues. Simple as that...
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Anyway. I think the debate is over...
probably not in a good position to work as a developer on a large project
I wish you the best, guys.
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'confrontation' implies that there was a disagreement
1. The act of confronting or the state of being confronted, especially a meeting face to face.
If I tell you something and tell you that I'm glad to have taught you because I thought you knew it already, that IS an insult, however you spin it.
If I document them, they'll lose all their magic.
Dude the problem I have with you all now is that you seem to talk more and more trash about Dream Portal... and like Nao has cares about Wedge and SMF making rules, I have cares about Dream Portal's image and the fact that you guys are trying to ruin it. The fact that you here at Wedge go out of your way to try and ruin Dream Portal's image. The fact that you all jump to the idea of making it a priority to discuss your opinion on Dream Portal's lack of a properly managed team and the source of it is being with the staff (me and ccbtimewiz).Some of my responsibilities ARE coding
there's documentation right there! Do it as you go along.
Dream Portal is just a portal bro. We do what we can. Take it or leave it! But don't put us down for it!....He came in, insulted us and then deleted his posts without saying g'bye.
EoM
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This is never going to end, is it? Look, this topic began as a simply innocent request for a good portal, differences in the software were pointed out, then a big why DP was considered for Wedge, then a full-scale flame war on the management principles. It's a downward spiral, this topic. It really is. I think it can't sink any lower without being buried.
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Yeah... Technically, we didn't start the flames. I suppose there's too much tension and ego issues (not that it's not understandable) at DP since it only
died split recently into two portals...
I say guys, come back and re-read the topic once you're ready. Maybe you'll realize you didn't... react... like you were supposed to.
Anyway, I split the topic right before you posted, John -- funny.
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Actually believe it or not, it all began with the members here. Arantor, Bloc, and Nao all had something negative to say about Dream Portal. Specifically, it all began with this post by Nao: http://wedge.org/pub/off/6562/flames-dream-portal/msg257071/#msg257071 If you are going to say these things and open up the topic to such a "downward spiral" as you put it live627, than you shouldn't be surprised if others engage in it.
The only "downward spiral" I see here is the trash that is being talked about on Dream Portal in various posts within this topic. Feel free to end it anyone? I don't think you can end something on a positive note when other people keep bringing it up in such a negative way! If this is allowed, again, you are opening up the discussion for debate. I did not do this. This happened when you guys started talking nonsense on Dream Portal, not to mention what were you ever accused of breaking live627??
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This had been gone too far and it isn't likely to stop any time soon. No matter what we do, it seem that we cannot reason with each other no matter how hard we tried, this argument will never end, SoLoGHoST.
It ends now, because I'm tired of hearing this crap all over again just over a portal.
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This had been gone too far and it isn't likely to stop any time soon. No matter what we do, it seem that we cannot reason with each other no matter how hard we tried, this argument will never end, SoLoGHoST.
It ends now, because I'm tired of hearing this crap all over again just over a portal.
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You don't get it do you? It's a matter of opinion and perspective, not negative which is why it was a discussion in the first place.
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Sorry, so it's not to do with anything on Facts? I am totally lost now.
BTW, not trying to be negative here. Just trying to point out some facts as it seems that the facts get twisted around by people's perspectives and opinions.
Cheers :)
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Actually believe it or not, it all began with the members here. Arantor, Bloc, and Nao all had something negative to say about Dream Portal. Specifically, it all began with this post by Nao: http://wedge.org/pub/off/6562/flames-dream-portal/msg257071/#msg257071 If you are going to say these things and open up the topic to such a "downward spiral" as you put it live627, than you shouldn't be surprised if others engage in it.
Just having Chris register here was suspicious. Some discussed in private that they were uncomfortable with that. That he was going to create problems. Then Chris posted his message. I felt it was going to annoy some people in the team and in order to save time, I'd provoke a reaction and encourage either his departure, or his making it clear that he was coming in peace. Because we have no fucking time to waste on flame wars.
*I* was never involved with DP at *any* point. I was in the best position to do this. I just expected the DP team to behave as adults, not as kids who come in, insult everyone and then delete their posts to leave no trace. W00t, way to go for a "professional" project...The only "downward spiral" I see here is the trash that is being talked about on Dream Portal in various posts within this topic. Feel free to end it anyone? I don't think you can end something on a positive note when other people keep bringing it up in such a negative way! If this is allowed, again, you are opening up the discussion for debate.
You're no better than JaZz at this point.
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I just expected the DP team to behave as adults, not as kids who come in, insult everyone and then delete their posts to leave no trace. W00t, way to go for a "professional" project...
People have the bad habit to want to be right no matter what. Now I would suggest to lock this topic, and end this flame war, since there will be no solution to what is going on.
Good luck, and I am still looking foreward to install wedge, and work with it!
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*I* was never involved with DP at *any* point. I was in the best position to do this. I just expected the DP team to behave as adults, not as kids who come in, insult everyone and then delete their posts to leave no trace. W00t, way to go for a "professional" project...
Cheers and Good Luck with Wedge :)
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willemjan, I didn't even know you were part of the DP team.
Solomon, AFAIK the only person here who insulted someone else was JaZz. Criticizing someone or a project doesn't amount to insulting.
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Yeah I am ;). Otherwise I would never have said this:
Now, regarding censorship -- I don't believe in censorship unless there are specific details which should not be made public. Insults are boring but are not among the things I consider are candidates for immediate deletion. I don't know who deleted Jazz's posts, maybe it was himself on the DP team's request, but I don't condone it.
I deleted my posts, and I won't even bother to discuss with does guys in the future....
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Anyways, what about locking this? :)
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Done.